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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Artifacts related to time get more points for the Day of Change ritual.

How do we go about messing with time and get an Inevitable for sacrifice? Does that count for Day of Change or Blood?
 
Out of curiosity how do we plan to equip Legion Cavalry? Westerosi style armored lancers? Essosi style light cavalry? Dothraki style horse archers? Something else altogether?
 
Goldfish said:
I think the dream plan was Advanced Magebred Warbeast Celestial Half-Gorgon Aurochs... :p
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That reminds me, animals for Vee! We should ask the Children to help us hunt down a direwolf or something and then Baleful Polymorph it for transport to the South. Then proceed to give Vee the newest addition to the collection.
 
We'll probably have militant orders to provide aerial cavalry. And for heavy cavalry contingents, I think simply seeking Knights for service in a conflict would work best. That way we don't really have to worry about permanently equipping large groupings of heavy cavalry.

In contrast, a dedicated scout company attached to each legion with some supernatural horses/mounts would probably be a good idea.
 
mrsean22 said:
I get that but nothing else? Not even what they have at their disposal?
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Honestly, I think we know most of what they're up to, with the exception of details as to what's happening in the Red Keep (thanks Maegor). Our Westeros Rumors post will be much more detailed moving forward, which will let us keep an even closer eye on them.

After poking around ships for awhile, I'm remembering why I was pessimistic about it, even assuming the Xorn are bringing enough iron (spoiler, we need a lot). We could design a side-paddle ironclad that shrugs off all but the heaviest siege weapons, is quite maneuverable, and able to run at 8-10 knots indefinitely irrespective of wind conditions with a construct engine. It doesn't need sails, so no masts, making it very hard to see at a distance. If we cover the deck, similarly to the Korean Turtle Ships, enemies will be unable to board, and if sectioned and put on hinges, once an enemy ship is alongside the cover on that side can be unfolded into the other ship, forming an instant gangplank, which is a very nice ship all around.

Of course, ships are very large. It's hard to estimate, but it'd be about 1600-1900 (long) tons displacement. Getting from historically reported displacement to the actual weight of steel used in the hull was a bit tricky, but I've found a few sources which provided me with information between 30/35% (merchant vessels) up to 50% (for warships designed to receive cannon fire). We don't have all the refinement of techniques for maximum efficiency, but we also don't need to resist canon, so I'll settle for 40% weight, which is still quite a bit of steel (converting to short tons, 717-851 tons of steel, or 26-31 thousand suits of reinforced fullplate). For Lya to fabricate, it'd take 26-31 castings to make all the pieces, or if she did nothing but used her 5th level spell slots on producing the parts for the ship, 9-11 days.

(As an aside, a single casting of fabricate on steel at her current caster level lets Lya manipulate enough steel to make about 1000 suits of full plate at once, since it's based on the volume of the initial resources, and steel is very dense).
 
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Duesal said:
That reminds me, animals for Vee! We should ask the Children to help us hunt down a direwolf or something and then Baleful Polymorph it for transport to the South. Then proceed to give Vee the newest addition to the collection.
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We can ask the watch, we Pay them for any animal they can catch, same for rare moss or whatever rare reagents they can find in the north.
 
Crake said:
We'll probably have militant orders to provide aerial cavalry. And for heavy cavalry contingents, I think simply seeking Knights for service in a conflict would work best. That way we don't really have to worry about permanently equipping large groupings of heavy cavalry.

In contrast, a dedicated scout company attached to each legion with some supernatural horses/mounts would probably be a good idea.
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I think our dedicated scouts should each have a Construct wingpack.

Let's see if I can get the math correct this time:

Small-sized (100 gold) + Wood Construction (Hardness 5 x 20 = 100 gold) + Flight (Speed 20, Poor Maneuverability; 100 gold) + Increase Flight Maneuverability to Average (200 gold) + Increase Flight Speed to 40 (300 gold) + Increase Flight Speed to 60 (400 gold) = 1,200 gold / 5 = 240 IM x 0.75 (Extraordinary Artisan) = 180 IM

An ad hoc +10 IM should be a reasonable amount to have each Construct keyed to an amulet which allows the wearer to mentally control it.

So, for 190 IM we could potentially equip a scout with a Construct wingpack that allows them to fly at a speed of 60 with average maneuverability. That's not bad, IMO.

And if DP required them to be Medium-sized to carry a person, they would each only cost 370 IM with the control amulet. Still not bad at all for what we would be getting.

Medium-sized (200 gold) + Wood Construction (Hardness 5 x 40 = 200 gold) + Flight (Speed 20, Poor Maneuverability; 200 gold) + Increase Flight Maneuverability to Average (400 gold) + Increase Flight Speed to 40 (600 gold) + Increase Flight Speed to 60 (800 gold) = 2,400 gold / 5 = 480 IM x 0.75 (Extraordinary Artisan) = 360 IM

EDIT: Damn it, still messed up the math. Fixing it now.

EDIT 2: Fixed now.

EDIT 3: Really fixed this time. Probably.
 
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Have we ever considered using mounted crossbows? I know the Chinese used the quite extensively to no small effect.
 
Diomedon said:
Honestly, I think we know most of what they're up to, with the exception of details as to what's happening in the Red Keep (thanks Maegor). Our Westeros Rumors post will be much more detailed moving forward, which will let us keep an even closer eye on them.

After poking around ships for awhile, I'm remembering why I was pessimistic about it, even assuming the Xorn are bringing enough iron (spoiler, we need a lot). We could design a side-paddle ironclad that shrugs off all but the heaviest siege weapons, is quite maneuverable, and able to run at 8-10 knots indefinitely irrespective of wind conditions with a construct engine. It doesn't need sails, so no masts, making it very hard to see at a distance. If we cover the deck, similarly to the Korean Turtle Ships, enemies will be unable to board, and if sectioned and put on hinges, once an enemy ship is alongside the cover on that side can be unfolded into the other ship, forming an instant gangplank, which is a very nice ship all around.

Of course, ships are very large. It's hard to estimate, but it'd be about 1600-1900 (long) tons displacement. Getting from historically reported displacement to the actual weight of steel used in the hull was a bit tricky, but I've found a few sources which provided me with information between 30/35% (merchant vessels) up to 50% (for warships designed to receive cannon fire). We don't have all the refinement of techniques for maximum efficiency, but we also don't need to resist canon, so I'll settle for 40% weight, which is still quite a bit of steel (converting to short tons, 717-851 tons of steel, or 26-31 thousand suits of reinforced fullplate). For Lya to fabricate, it'd take 26-31 castings to make all the pieces, or if she did nothing but used her 5th level spell slots on producing the parts for the ship, 9-11 days.

(As an aside, a single casting of fabricate on steel at her current caster level lets Lya manipulate enough steel to make about 1000 suits of full plate at once, since it's based on the volume of the initial resources).
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Hmm, let's see what a Colossal-sized Construct vessel would cost to build.

Colossal-sized (3,200 gold) + Steel Construction (Hardness 10 x 640 = 6,400 gold) + Swim (Speed 20; 3,200 gold) + 10 Swim Speed (6,400 gold) + 10 Swim Speed (9,600 gold) + 10 Swim Speed (12,800 gold) = 41,600 gold / 5 = 8,320 IM x 0.75 (Extraordinary Artisan) = 6,240 IM

With a speed of 50, it would be able to travel at 11.36 miles per hour if DP allowed it to take a double Move Action each round. And there's no reason we couldn't make it submersible. It would be a great way to survey the oceans, and if we Plane Shifted it to the Plane of Water, we would be a lot more comfortable while exploring.
 
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Hm... 272.64 miles per day.

Going at that speed, we could be in Asshai inside of a month!
 
Crake said:
Hm... 272.64 miles per day.

Going at that speed, we could be in Asshai inside of a month!
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All the more impressive as Illyrio mentions to Tyrion that a ship sent to the Jade Sea will return in approximately two years if it returns at all.
Edit: speaking of which have we considered sending ships along the Jade Sea route?
 
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So this is all the questions we didn't get around to. We answered 47 out of 70 unanswered questions, and of the ones we didn't get we can ask whatever Children we diplomance or the Night's Watch or even Bloodraven himself when we return. That is a damn good success for us given how important most of those answers were. :D Either way, marking down the unanswered questions for future reference.

4. Learn of the going-ons Beyond the Wall. Learn of the resurgence in magic among the Wildlings, of... other things.
6. Get a rundown of the politics Beyond the Wall, of the various Wildling Clans, of the giants (basically a groundwork for Viserys to get ready to start diplomancing). As for the giants, ask what species of giants they are.
7. Learn of all the supernatural dangerous that have been popping up, and how the locals have or haven't been dealing with them.
9. Also, ask about skinchangers, wargs, and those with greensight. This is well-known lore of the Children of the Forest and the First Men. What can you tell us of these and how may we wield them as a weapon against the Long Night?
16. Who is the Great Other and how did he come to be?
18. Tell us of the gods of elder days. For example, the great serpent Yss now resides in our island. What were the gods from his time? In a quest he gave us to find something deep within Sothoryos, the path there takes us past the remnants of a spider god's temple. Who is that god?
26. Ask about locations of great magical power, essentially places that we could loot/restore or use in some way to power the Old Gods.
28. Ask about Casterly Rock. From what you've learned there appears to be a strong connection with the Plane of Earth in the depths of the castle. What does Bloodraven know?
38. Jon Snow's mother, Lyanna Stark, lingers to see her son safe. She's not quite as mad as a ghost should be, but she's very irrational and seems insistent on blaming us for the sins of Rhaegar and Aerys, and wishes for us to stay away from our nephew. Obviously we disagree with her desires. Any advice?
47. Speak on Zherys, Bennero, the Mysterium, and the Red Priests. Speak of the slumbering Land Wyrm under Volantis, and the echo of the dead god Meraxes... and the rumors of the blessings of Meraxes during Volantis' campaign up the Rhoyne. Ask for any insights and advice.
49. Speak of Oberyn Martell's daring campaign to raid the ruined cities of the Rhoyne for lost magics. Ask what dangers he might have to expect depending on which cities he's raiding, so you can later pass said information to Oberyn via Whispering Brazier.
50. Ask of the past Kings Beyond the Wall and anyone of the sort building their power in present day. Ask of any Free Folk Bloodraven knows of whom you could recruit and train and equip as a monster-slayer to serve while you are otherwise occupied (wandering hero style). Also ask what his plans are for the Free Folk and the Night's Watch so you can avoid messing them up with your interference.
55. What was the weapon the Children forged from the spark of the Fire from the East?
56. What do you know about Dawn, the sword forged of starmetal, wielded by House Dayne? What special properties is it known to have? What legends do you know of the Sword of the Morning?
57. What do you know of the flaming sword Lightbringer and Azor Ahai, the man the Red Priests claim drove back the Long Night? What do you know of the Last Hero? Were Azor Ahai and the Last Hero the same person?
58. What do you know of the great Empire of the Dawn in the far east? It is said that the Long Night started there as well due to corruption and evil, and the empire fell and shattered into many smaller kingdoms. What do the Children know of this?
59. What were the great Giant's Towers built for and why? Are there any left aside from the Giant's Lance, and if so what could be found there? How were such towers built in the first place?
62. Ask of the Realm of the Others where the great bear spirit was trapped. Ask of the nature of the realm, the rules it follows, and how one might enter or exit, or be trapped. Ask what creatures haunt such a place.
63. As we travelled north, you told us we were skimming the surface of another world. Was that the realm of the Others? If not, what realm was it?
64. How similar are the Others to Fey? Are they in fact Winter Fey?
68. Why do the Children carve faces into Heart Trees?
70. What are the Children of the Forest? Where did they come from? Are they kin to Fey? What are the Ifeqevron?
 
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Goldfish said:
Hmm, let's see what a Colossal-sized Construct vessel would cost to build.

Colossal-sized (3,200 gold) + Steel Construction (Hardness 10 x 640 = 6,400 gold) + Swim (Speed 20; 3,200 gold) + 10 Swim Speed (6,400 gold) + 10 Swim Speed (9,600 gold) + 10 Swim Speed (12,800 gold) = 41,600 gold / 10 = 4,160 IM x 0.75 (Extraordinary Artisan) = 3,120 IM

With a speed of 50, it would be able to travel at 11.36 miles per hour if DP allowed it to take a double Move Action each round. And there's no reason we couldn't make it submersible. It would be a great way to survey the oceans, and if we Plane Shifted it to the Plane of Water, we would be a lot more comfortable while exploring.
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The rules for ships are a bit funny. They don't get double moves (they get acceleration and a max speed) so your boat can only go about 5.6 mph (slightly slower than a galley using its sails). The rulebooks numbers are a little clunky, because the writers like to lump the speed increments for them by units of 30, or just under 3 knots (2.95). So a galley might be able to row at 6 knots (60ft per round), and use the wind for 6 knots (60 ft per round), combined for about 12 knots (120 per round), until the men tire and assuming the wind is at their back.

Since to make a steel construct ship requires the steel regardless, I think making a smaller construct to serve as the engine (it's body is the axel and paddle wheels, perhaps, or maybe just the axel alone) would be cheaper and get you better performance. I started it out before and it wasn't ruinous, the issue was if we'd have enough steel.

We'd need to invent the screw propeller, I think, to have a useful submersible.
 
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TotallyNotEvil said:
Except the book gives those value as cost already. So divine by 5 instead of the usual 10. Aka double all which you've got.

You should probably look into how much each construct can carry in order to see if it fits as, essentially, jetpack.

Still, that's some dirt cheap perma flight. Probably downsides to it.
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Prices fixed. Thanks.

Still very cheap by our standards, but in Planetosi terms each wingpack would represent a huge investment. A handful of them for each of our armies would do wonders for battlefield intelligence and scouting.

I'm more interested in the submersible Construct for 6,240 IM. It's very expensive, but it would be so cool and useful.
 
Diomedon said:
The rules for ships are a bit funny. They don't get double moves (they get acceleration and a max speed) so your boat can only go about 5.6 mph (slightly slower than a galley with sails). The rulebooks numbers are a little clunky, because the writers like to lump the speed increments for them by units of 30, or just under 3 knots (2.95). So a galley might be able to row at 6 knots (60ft per round), and use the wind for 6 knots (60 ft per round), combined for about 12 knots (120 per round), until the men tire and assuming the wind is at their back.

Since to make a steel construct ship requires the steel regardless, I think making a smaller construct to serve as the engine (it's body is the axel and paddle wheels, perhaps, or maybe just the axel alone) would be cheaper and get you better performance. I started it out before and it wasn't ruinous, the issue was if we'd have enough steel.

We'd need to invent the screw propeller, I think, to have a useful submersible.
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It's a Construct, not an actual machine. We could build it with flippers and a whale-like tail if we wanted.

Although we would be using it as a ship/submarine, it would still be a Construct rather than a ship, which means it should be using creature rules. In that case, it should at least be able to double move.

And we can always spend more to make it even faster. For 8,640 IM we could it up to a speed of 60, for a double moving speed of 13.63 mph.

Colossal-sized (3,200 gold) + Steel Construction (Hardness 10 x 640 = 6,400 gold) + Swim (Speed 20; 3,200 gold) + 10 Swim Speed (6,400 gold) + 10 Swim Speed (9,600 gold) + 10 Swim Speed (12,800 gold) + 10 Swim Speed (16,000 gold)= 57,600 gold / 5 = 11,520 IM x 0.75 (Extraordinary Artisan) = 8,640 IM
 
Where I started, four and a half hours ago:

Where I finished, now:

I just reread every threadmark in the thread, and threw a Meow at every one of them that I hadn't already rated. Omakes included. @DragonParadox I hope your alerts bar bloody well explodes.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go pass out.
Worth it though!
 
Goldfish said:
It's a Construct, not an actual machine. We could build it with flippers and a whale-like tail if we wanted.

Although we would be using it as a ship/submarine, it would still be a Construct rather than a ship, which means it should be using creature rules. In that case, it should at least be able to double move.

And we can always spend more to make it even faster. For 8,640 IM we could it up to a speed of 60, for a double moving speed of 13.63 mph.

Colossal-sized (3,200 gold) + Steel Construction (Hardness 10 x 640 = 6,400 gold) + Swim (Speed 20; 3,200 gold) + 10 Swim Speed (6,400 gold) + 10 Swim Speed (9,600 gold) + 10 Swim Speed (12,800 gold) + 10 Swim Speed (16,000 gold)= 57,600 gold / 5 = 11,520 IM x 0.75 (Extraordinary Artisan) = 8,640 IM
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It depends on DP's ruling, I would think, if it followed ship moving rules, or creature rules. The precedence in the ship ruleset, an animated-ship, continues to move as a ship and doesn't suddenly get to move like a colossal sized creature (though it no longer needs a crew, which is an amusing image for a sailing ship).

If we were going to make such a thing, we might as well as go full hog and make it a golem, with the magic resistance and DR. I wouldn't want to be a party member caught sleeping in it at depth when a Deep One Ambush pierces the hull and not be in the room with the Cleric. That's the level of dead by DM fiat way beyond rocks fall, you die (water pressure is no joke).
 
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You guys and your crazy schemes only thing missing is Fehu trying to Awaken/Template the submarine :V

Also, we obviously have to call it "My sea dragon is better than yours Relath." Its a mouthful but it sends a clear message.
 
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