Alright, that's fair.

But still, even with the marriage and Elia situation, it's irritating that they aren't acting like proper allies.

We gave them Velen to teach their mages (and apparently he's been very helpful in that regard). Without that they straight-up would not have any mages in their courts for the simple fact that there would have been no-one to teach them. We gave them the Brazier of Battle as their first official magic item which they probably traded away to the fire spirits Velen conjured up. We gave Oberyn ships to rebuild Dorne's navy for the first time in millennia. We gave Dorne the Lampad to train druids for them and to serve with her magic (up to level 3 druid spells). We found and captured the terrorist from Oldtown who poisoned hundreds of people on behalf of the Faith. We just equipped Oberyn and Nymeria in preparation for their journey in raiding the ruins on the Rhoyne.

We have invested a LOT in helping Dorne come out on top in this age of magic. I understand his reluctance to fully invest now that he's not getting a marriage alliance, but once Elia's returned to him we better start seeing a more helpful attitude.
I mean, what assistance do you want for them to give us?

They can't openly give us stuff, because our alliance is still supposed to be secret.
They could give us artifacts and stuff that they don't particularly want, but we already have a gigantic backlog.
They could give us money, but again, how would they do so without making our alliance open and starting a rebellion against the Crown?

I'm just not sure exactly what you want from them.
 
I mean, what assistance do you want for them to give us?

They can't openly give us stuff, because our alliance is still supposed to be secret.
They could give us artifacts and stuff that they don't particularly want, but we already have a gigantic backlog.
They could give us money, but again, how would they do so without making our alliance open and starting a rebellion against the Crown?

I'm just not sure exactly what you want from them.
A friendlier attitude from Doran and a green light to start trade would be nice.
 
:cry:

Not even a few with Fighter class or other PC classes?

And what about our Scholarum mages that participate in the more showy fights against conjured beasts?
If we got some Martial Disciplines even with no Pc classes they would be able to to fight better even with just the most basic stuff they could learn and there is a extra dimensional plane if Dragon Paradox would allow such homebrew called the Plane of Infinite Swords or Mrityulok we could go to. Its basically the plane of everyone was Kung Fu Fighting taken to the extreme.

As in its not based on cosmic alignment energies but the various Martial Arts and Disciplines of the Great Wheel. And beyond my desire for fantasy Martial Arts most likely if we recruit better fighters to teach our warriors in the Battle Arena the better they will be. Work on getting the best of the best to teach our Legion like we love collecting magic items.
 
I mean, what assistance do you want for them to give us?

They can't openly give us stuff, because our alliance is still supposed to be secret.
They could give us artifacts and stuff that they don't particularly want, but we already have a gigantic backlog.
They could give us money, but again, how would they do so without making our alliance open and starting a rebellion against the Crown?

I'm just not sure exactly what you want from them.

I would want intelligence reports for one. Reliable intelligence on the Lannisters, whats going on Kings Landing would be extremely valuable for us and would serve to bind us closer together without it being official. Besides a marriage alliance would have been less immediately useful for Dorne compared to the more immediate returns of intelligence sharing.
 
I think the one thing that made people angry about Dorne was Doran preventing any contact with us from his family until we revived Elia. This is after we provided them with one of our oldest friends to help them start their magic academy and Velen gave them access to the markets on the Plane of Fire. Also it would be nice if they helped us make contact with the fire elementals as an alternative market to Molten Skies.
 
I would want intelligence reports for one. Reliable intelligence on the Lannisters, whats going on Kings Landing would be extremely valuable for us and would serve to bind us closer together without it being official. Besides a marriage alliance would have been less immediately useful for Dorne compared to the more immediate returns of intelligence sharing.
Oh, this for sure. Not being lied to about problems in Dorne would be a definite plus.
 
Even that makes sense. If you're trying to sell your usefulness and strength, you don't want to look weak. I think the disconnect is that Doran is still in the selling/courtship stage, and we're already sold and impatient to move forward.
 
Even that makes sense. If you're trying to sell your usefulness and strength, you don't want to look weak. I think the disconnect is that Doran is still in the selling/courtship stage, and we're already sold and impatient to move forward.
That is one of the most frustrating, infuriating, and ultimately true things about this entire situation. :facepalm:
 
Dragonspeaker

The most common way to attain Divine magic is to pray to a god, but over time dragonkind, humanity and other races have discovered many ways to wield it without their help. Archivists have studied, analyzed and copied the spells of Clerics and Outsiders, Ur-Priests have stolen the power of the gods, Dragons have mastered it as part of their natural abilities and godless clerics have found in themselves the faith in an ideal, so strong that it fuels their magic. Yet all these paths lack the guidance of more powerful beings. No aid is given, no question anwered no Miracle granted save for those the caster himself can cause.

The Dragonspeaker calls on his or her Ancestors to fill that gap, to borrow small parts of the immense knowledge and forgotten power of long dead dragons. Few on this path truly worship those ancestors, for a dragon's pride does not easily bow to those who, in the end, failed to escape death or choose not to. And no Dragonspeaker forgets that the majority of her magic stems from other sources, yet some reverence and sacrifice can go a long way to gain the aid of those that have little influence on this world anymore.
Requirements

Race: Dragon or Dragonblooded
Skills: Knowledge (Religion) 15 ranks , Knowledge (Arcane) 12 ranks
Spells: Able to cast 5th-level divine spells or 5th level Arcane spells learned from the clerics list (as some True Dragons do)
Special: Can not pray to a god to prepare or cast her spells, such a connection would override any made through this class

Hit die
d8
Skill points
4 + Int

Class Features


Spells per Day/Spells Known: A Dragonspeaker gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she had also gained a level in a divine spellcasting class to which she belonged before adding the prestige class level. She does not, however, gain any other benefi t a character of that class would have gained (metamagic or item creation feats and so on; but see Turn Undead, below). If she had more than one divine spellcasting class before becoming a Dragonspeaker, she must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.

Turn/Rebuke Undead (Su): Dragonspeaker class levels stack with levels of all other classes that grant the ability to Turn or Rebuke undead for the purpose of determining the character's effective cleric level for turning. See Turn or Rebuke Undead, page 159 of the Player's Handbook.

Invocation of the Ancestors: When the Dragonspeaker casts a Divination spell that requires the guidance of a Deity (such as Commune or Guidance of the Avatar) she is instead connected to a random, or if invoked by name specific, ancient dragonspirit. This spirit is assumed to have near absolute knowledge of the past and the ability to see present and future as well as the very least of gods, so everything not hidden either by gods or from their gaze is known or possible to find out within one day for the Ancestor.
Furthermore spells that reference a god are now tied to these Ancients, so a Visage of the Diety would give optically draconic traits with the Good or Evil tag being decided by the Dragon's alignment, similarly for the sacred/profane bonus of Divine Presence.

The ancients are not obligated to answer or grant help, but if they decide to do so they answer truthfully and help as the spell is written.
If an ancient's name is known prayer or sacrifices may be brought in his name. The former doesn't give him anything beyond the feeling of being remembered and venerated eons beyond his death since these spirits cannot draw power from faith alone, but a sacrifice might strengthen the spirit.

If further offerings are made an ancient might be able to influence the Material World in some small manner, for example keep up the magical effect of an altar consecrated in his name. Such acts should be handled with great care since every being that remained sentient and aware so long after his own death mostly likely has plans and desires of his own.

Sides of the Coin (Su): The Dragonspeaker gains at the 2nd level an additional domain spellslot on all unlocked levels and can decide every day to fill it with either the Glory or the Pride Domain and also use that domain's abilities for the day. She can also activate neither.

The Glory Domain strengthens the Dragonspeakers will to aid others with word and deed. While it is active the Dragonspeaker will feel a strong urge to guide those in need by sharing her wisdom and defending them from the wicked. Any time her natural desires to do good are provoked the Wisdom or Willcheck to resist is increased by 2.

The Pride Domain numbs the Dragonspeaker to concerns of those he considers lesser beings then himself and makes him likely to take advantage of them. While it is active the Dragonspeaker will find it difficult to see value in those beneath her, but become acutely aware of what she considers her rightful due from them. Any time her natural desire to act selfish is provoked the Wisdom or Willcheck to resist is increased by 2.

In neither of these cases the Dragonspeakers nature is fundamentally changed, just certain instincts increased. The abilities causes no willchecks that wouldn't happen without it, just makes them more difficult.
At the 5th level the Dragonspeaker understands these instincts well enough to surpress them if needed, the penalties do not apply anymore.


Eternal Dragon (Ex): The Dragonspeaker has learned from the ancient draconic spirits clinging onto awareness and sentience as few other beings can. When her physical form dies her soul lingers on a transitionary plane near her body.
If she is ressurected within one day per point of her willsave-bonus she doesn't take negative levels from the resurrection.
The maximal duration any resurrection spell works on her is increased by a factor of 10. (1 minute for Revivify, 10D/CL for Raise Dead, 100Y/CL for Resurrection, etc.)
The strenght with which her soul clings to live makes it difficult to draw even the tiniest bit away from it, the Dragonspeaker becomes immune to Draining effects on Mental attributes and gains a +5 bonus on saves against Negative Levels or any attempt to trap her soul.

Advancement
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spells per Day
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Turn/Rebuke Undead, Invocation of the Ancestors +1 level of divine spellcasting class
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Sides of the Coin +1 level of divine spellcasting class
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 - +1 level of divine spellcasting class
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 - +1 level of divine spellcasting class
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Eternal Dragon
+1 level of divine spellcasting class
 
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If we got some Martial Disciplines even with no Pc classes they would be able to to fight better even with just the most basic stuff they could learn and there is a extra dimensional plane if Dragon Paradox would allow such homebrew called the Plane of Infinite Swords or Mrityulok we could go to. Its basically the plane of everyone was Kung Fu Fighting taken to the extreme.

As in its not based on cosmic alignment energies but the various Martial Arts and Disciplines of the Great Wheel. And beyond my desire for fantasy Martial Arts most likely if we recruit better fighters to teach our warriors in the Battle Arena the better they will be. Work on getting the best of the best to teach our Legion like we love collecting magic items.


Based on the Great Wheel... interesting
 
Even that makes sense. If you're trying to sell your usefulness and strength, you don't want to look weak. I think the disconnect is that Doran is still in the selling/courtship stage, and we're already sold and impatient to move forward.
The thing is Dorne is honestly pretty useless as an ally, to the point that if they weren't so easy to get we wouldn't bother with them. Their army is useless off their home ground, they either aren't rich enough to help or have no intention of spending their money, and we're better at assassinating people and causing havok. So yeah, we can honestly tell Doran at some point the only reasons we're giving him the time of day are Tyene being a friend and Elia being family.
 
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Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jan 12, 2018 at 1:47 PM, finished with 138555 posts and 14 votes.

  • [X] Answer
    -[X] Introduce yourself as Viserys Targaryen, King in the Stepstones.
    -[X] I have always fought the enemies of mankind wherever I find them, from demons and devils, to hostile fey and even Deep Ones. And recently I have heard of the troubles of the Night's Watch. I do not doubt that there are monstrous things stirring Beyond the Wall in this age of awakening magic, but I wish to personally investigate what the realms of man may face so that we may all better prepare.
    -[X] Of course, pay a fair price for any information and maps he is willing to give you.
    [X] Let Dany speak
 
I mean, what assistance do you want for them to give us?

They can't openly give us stuff, because our alliance is still supposed to be secret.
They could give us artifacts and stuff that they don't particularly want, but we already have a gigantic backlog.
They could give us money, but again, how would they do so without making our alliance open and starting a rebellion against the Crown?

I'm just not sure exactly what you want from them.

Not having to wait 3 days would count for a lot.

The sealord doesn't make us wait. I think the longest has been until nightfall or a day. Reasonable things.

I like the Sealord.
 
The thing is Dorne is honestly pretty useless as an ally, to the point that if they weren't so easy to get we wouldn't bother with them. Their army is useless off their home ground, they either aren't rich enough to help or have no intention of spending their money, and we're better at assassinating people and causing havok. So yeah, we can honestly tell Doran at some point the only reasons we're giving him the time of day are Tyene being a friend and Elia being family.

Well that's not totally true, Dorne works great as a staging area for our troops. Any large scale attack by any of the other 7 kingdoms will be doomed to fail from the start. Furthermore, it has a larger port than Dragonstone, its closer to our seat of power and it has no major problems that we can't easily solve plus it leaders are driven by a personal enmity to destroy all our political rivals. Now if Doran would only 'sack' up...
 
Well that's not totally true, Dorne works great as a staging area for our troops. Any large scale attack by any of the other 7 kingdoms will be doomed to fail from the start. Furthermore, it has a larger port than Dragonstone, its closer to our seat of power and it has no major problems that we can't easily solve plus it leaders are driven by a personal enmity to destroy all our political rivals. Now if Doran would only 'sack' up...
We don't have many troops nor will we be getting that many. We'll be launching decapitation strikes by teleport and getting other Lords who do have troops to join us, from their respective positions. But really the main thing we'll need troops for will be baiting out the Lannisters before we ambush Tywin. Dorne is an awful place to make a staging ground, the logistical trail would be hell since it's in the middle of nowhere. Troops landed in Dorne would have to march through half of Westeros to get to the places we need them at.
 
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In the North maybe. Most of Westeros is rather isolated from the Night's Watch.
Still, I'm pretty sure at this point the 'masquarade' is well and truely over, if any attempt was made to uphold it isn't he first place. Claiming we're doing this to protect the realm from the Others might not actually be dismissed out of hand. In any case, getting the north to like us isn't exactly bad, seeing as we are trying to champion their gods, and it'll just serve as another good deed which we can use to disprove the Faith and the Lannisters when they slander us.
 
Cost: 4 Ideas

Race: Fey (Small, Dragonblooded)
HP:
90/90
AC: 10 +1 (Size Modifier) -1 (Vulnerable) +4 (Mage Armor) +4 (DEX) +2 (vs Evil) = 18/20
Initiative: +4 (DEX)
Attack: +8 -1 (STR) +1 (MW) = +8 [1d3-1 +1d4 Con Damage (max 4)]
Spell Save: 10 + 6 (Wis) + spell level
Weapon Proficiency: Dagger
Senses: Low-Light Vision
Immunities: Possession/Mental Control

STATS:
8 (-1) Strength
18 (+4) Dexterity
12 +2 = 14 (+2) Constitution
22 +2 = 24(+7) Charisma
21 +2 = 23 (+6) Wisdom
16 (+3) Intelligence

SAVES
(+1 against fire):
FORTITUDE: 8 +2 +2 = 10/12
REFLEX:4 +4 +2 = 8/10
WILL: 10 +6 +2 +2 = 18/20

Awesome Beauty (Su): DC: 10+7(CHA)= 17

Cost: 4 Ideas

Race: Fey (Small, Dragonblooded)
HP:
77/77
AC: 10 +1 (Size Modifier) -1 (Vulnerable) +4 (Mage Armor) +4 (DEX) +2 (vs Evil) = 18/20
Initiative: +4 (DEX)
Flight: Twice land speed, currently 60ft (Good)
Attack: +8 -1 (STR) +1 (MW) = +8 [1d3-1 +1d4 Con Damage (max 4)]
Spell Save: 10 + 6 (Wis) + spell level
Weapon Proficiency: Dagger
Senses: Low-Light Vision
Immunities: Enchantment Spells and Effects, Possession/Mental Control

STATS:
8 (-1) Strength
18 (+4) Dexterity
10 +2 = 12 (+1) Constitution
22 +2 = 24(+7) Charisma

21 +2 = 23 (+6) Wisdom
14 (+2) Intelligence

SAVES (+1 against fire):
FORTITUDE: 8 +1 +2 = 9/11
REFLEX: 4 +4 +2 = 8/10
WILL: 10 +6 +2 +2 = 18/20

SLAs (CL 13):
At Will:
Charm person

3/day:
Protection from Law

1/day:
Hypnotism
Faerie Fire or Glitterdust
Sleep or Enthrall
Tasha'a Hideous Laughter or Suggestion
Confusion
Eyebite or Lesser Geas
Dominate Person or Hold Monster
Mass invisibility 1/day
(Abilities with "or" choosen each day anew)

Cost: 6 Ideas

Race: Dragon (Small)
HP:
103/103
AC: 10 +1 (Size Modifier) -1 (Vulnerable) +4 (Natural Armor) +4 (Mage Armor) +3 (DEX) +2 (vs Evil) = 21/23
Initiative: +3 (DEX)
Attack: Feeder +8 +3(STR) +1(MW) =+12 [1d3+3 +1d4 Con Damage (max 4)]
Full Attack: Feeder +12 (1d3+3 +1d4 Con Damage (max 4), Bite +7 (1d4+3)
Spell Save: 10 + 5 (Wis) + spell level
Weapon Proficiency: Dagger
Breath Attack: 30ft cone of fire, 6d8 damage, Reflex DC 16, useable every 1/day
Senses: Low-Light Vision, Darkvision 60ft
Immunities: Sleep, Paralysis, Fire, Possession/Mental Control

STATS:
16 (+3) Strength

16 (+3) Dexterity
14 +2 = 16 (+3) Constitution
20 +2 = 22 (+6) Charisma
19 +2 = 21 (+5) Wisdom
16 (+3) Intelligence


SAVES
(+1 against fire):
FORTITUDE: 8 +3 +2 = 11/13
REFLEX: 4 +3 +2 = 7/9
WILL: 10 +5 +2 +2 = 17/19

Cost: 8 Ideas

Race: Outsider (Small, Dragonblooded, Native)
HP:
116/116
AC: 10 +1 (Size Modifier) -1 (Vulnerable) +1 (Natural Armor) +4 (Mage Armor) +3 (DEX) +2 (vs Evil) = 20/22
Initiative: +4 (DEX)
Flight: Twice land speed, currently 60ft (Good)
Attack: +8 +1 (STR) +1 (MW) = +10 [1d3+1 +1d4 Con Damage (max 4)]
Spell Save: 10 + 7 (Wis) + spell level
Weapon Proficiency: Dagger
Senses: Darkvision 60ft
Immunities: Disease, Possession/Mental Control
Resistances: Acid 10, Cold 10, Electricity 10
DR: 10/Magic
SR: 23

STATS:
12 (+1) Strength
18 (+4) Dexterity
16 +2 = 18 (+4) Constitution
22 +2 =24(+7) Charisma
23 +2 =25 (+7) Wisdom
16 (+3) Intelligence


SAVES
(+1 against Fire):
FORTITUDE: 8 +4 +2 +4 (Racial Bonus vs Poison) = 12/14/18
REFLEX: 4 +4 +2 = 8/10
WILL: 10 +7 +2 +2 = 19/21

Su Abilities:
Daylight (CL 13) At Will
Smite Evil (+13 damage) 1/day

SLAs (CL13):
3/day:
Protection from Evil

1/day:
Bless
Aid
Detect Evil
Cure Serious Wounds (DC 20)
Neutralise Poison
Holy Smite (DC 21)
Remove Disease
Dispel Evil (DC 22)
Holy Word
Holy Aura (DC 25)
Hallow

@DragonParadox
Updated templates.
 
Hmmm.

I was just looking around. Thinking about how to make Waymar more boosted. I wondered if Celerity (greater) would stack with a belt of battle.

It does.

I feel like 3 consecutive full attacks in one turn will kill... just about anything really.
 
We don't have many troops nor will we be getting that many. We'll be launching decapitation strikes by teleport and getting other Lords who do have troops to join us, from their respective positions. But really the main thing we'll need troops for will be baiting out the Lannisters before we ambush Tywin. Dorne is an awful place to make a staging ground, the logistical trail would be hell since it's in the middle of nowhere. Troops landed in Dorne would have to march through half of Westeros to get to the places we need them at.

Um, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. First, off we're planning on using the Shadow Tower to ferry our troops around which is why we're gearing up to find the Dracolich's phylactery so we can do that safely. Secondly, We still need our own army which will listen to us and us alone. No messing about with other nobles on that front. Furthermore, a good size army will allow us to hold the areas we take not to mention we will garner more support if we're at the head of a good size, well disciplined, well-equipped army.

Thirdly, we don't need Dorne as a staging ground in the traditional sense but it does work great as a safe place for us to move our troops to gather supplies etc. But that said I could ballsing this up it's not like I'm an expert or even remotely knowledgeable about this sort of thing :p
 
Dorne also serves an important purpose. It ties up Reach troops to seal the Prince's Pass. It's utterly defensible from our standpoint, but our enemies must take pains to keep the Dornish army bottled up in Dorne, weakening them elsewhere. It costs us little, and gains us a good amount.

And it isn't as if the Dornish army is useless outside of Dorne, it just tends to be more defensive oriented, which is exactly what we need in allied troops (we can provide the firepower for offensives, but we need our allies to hold when we're not there).
 
Dorne also serves an important purpose. It ties up Reach troops to seal the Prince's Pass. It's utterly defensible from our standpoint, but our enemies must take pains to keep the Dornish army bottled up in Dorne, weakening them elsewhere. It costs us little, and gains us a good amount.

And it isn't as if the Dornish army is useless outside of Dorne, it just tends to be more defensive oriented, which is exactly what we need in allied troops (we can provide the firepower for offensives, but we need our allies to hold when we're not there).
The thing with a mass army like the reachers holding a pass against us is that they can't. The more troops they commit to bottle in the dornish, the more they will loose to an Alpha Strike by Viserys.

Our legions and the dornish can then march unopposed right into the Reach.
 
@Artemis1992 I agree with TNE. I'll be happy if her other PrC has full caster progression and maybe one cohesive theme or feature that builds across all five levels rather than five separate and significant features.
Propably right. :(

I removed Ancient Glory and Touch of Draconic Vigor, now all that stays is the basic, her connection to ancient dragons she can seek out.
The first is mostly thematically interesting and the last trick is on a personal level important because it gives her more control over her soul and reduces the odds of ending up in a soulgem on Tiamats shelf.

@DragonParadox
Is the cut-down version above acceptable?
 
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