A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
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- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
This is not what is happening. Mercy's inherited memories do not feel wholly real, more like a story or a play and so too she is wistful more in the sense that someone might be wistful that they cannot live out their favorite novel. Indeed the magical 'drugs' as you put it are not some external influence but as much or more part of her nature as those memories.
- Location
- Philippines
I knew it!
Lya will unleash her inner goth, that we only got a glimpse of in dream Volantis, one day. It's going to be snarky and condescending and full of metaphors.
I can't wait to have our own Dolorous Edd... albiet smarter... and grim.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Damn, ya'll, I've never woken up to find so many pages to read through. The atrocities I would commit for a Ring of Sustenance...
@DragonParadox I think the Arcanum-ing went well. I don't share some of the others' existential horror at the possibility of creating flawed people or Lya duplicates. Not because that wouldn't be horrible, but because I trust your skill as an author. It makes a certain amount of sense that the Arcanum would draw on some portion of Lya's memories, if only for the most basic necessities of life; language, social interaction, the ability to interact with and understand the surrounding world, etc. Some Lya memories, with Lore-influenced and Outsider-derived personality changes should be fine.
@DragonParadox I think the Arcanum-ing went well. I don't share some of the others' existential horror at the possibility of creating flawed people or Lya duplicates. Not because that wouldn't be horrible, but because I trust your skill as an author. It makes a certain amount of sense that the Arcanum would draw on some portion of Lya's memories, if only for the most basic necessities of life; language, social interaction, the ability to interact with and understand the surrounding world, etc. Some Lya memories, with Lore-influenced and Outsider-derived personality changes should be fine.
- Location
- Germany
Why though? Neither Nihilism nor selfishness automatically mean you hate your creator.
Unless the existence of an Arcanum is inherently horrifying for it...
- Location
- Germany
That's still a bit into existential horror for me.
Can we filter the memories out further, especially from emotional context?
I'd be fine if each Arcanum had to spend a month or two educating herself an, so to say, growing up in SD before they are ready.
Better something new than too much copy...
- Location
- No
"But I might call viserys Daddy!"
Ok I'm not following, what exactly could be the problem with mercy being in love with Viserys? Mercy is just a minorly remixed Fork of Lya, neither should really have a problem with both being with Viserys, at the same time. It's basically just masturbation.
I did not say hate, that would be too strong a word. I said she would be resentful, for instance resenting being lesser in power, unable to learn more magic, possessed of less wealth and prestige. With time and effort these feelings could be assuaged.
Paradosi
Myrddin
- Location
- VV Cephei
On one hand, I don't think it's as bad as some feared, but on the other, there's something legit... off. For a moment, she legitimately thought she was Lya, and truth be told, she kind of is? Mercy's only memories are of Lya, because she is Lya, just a Lya that's been excised from the whole, and imbued with otherworldly fuckery. She has no other memories, so what else can she define herself as other than Lya?
It honestly feels kind of cruel to treat her as some other entity, some other, when it's basically Lya, just a Lya who's not "lived" the life she knows. It's still the only life she knows, everything from her sense of the world, the language she speaks, the thoughts that run through her head, it's all Lya. Her childhood memories are Lya's, her struggles, her hardships, her hopes and dreams are Lya's. What are hopes and dreams if not tied to memory in some way?
Imagine if you woke up one day, the same as you were the night before, just... less so, and then someone tells you you're not you anymore, that you're someone else now, simply because your memories are fuzzy, even though that's all you've ever known, all you are. Then, you feel happy and carefree, cause someone just injected a whole lot of feel good mojo in you, and they tell you to forget all that makes you you. You tell them that no, you are you, even if it all feels fuzzy, but they tell you you can't be you, because there's another you whose memories aren't fuzzy, so obviously they're the real you, and you just have to live with that.
Fuck, I kind of feel like I've went down the rabbit hole here...
It honestly feels kind of cruel to treat her as some other entity, some other, when it's basically Lya, just a Lya who's not "lived" the life she knows. It's still the only life she knows, everything from her sense of the world, the language she speaks, the thoughts that run through her head, it's all Lya. Her childhood memories are Lya's, her struggles, her hardships, her hopes and dreams are Lya's. What are hopes and dreams if not tied to memory in some way?
Imagine if you woke up one day, the same as you were the night before, just... less so, and then someone tells you you're not you anymore, that you're someone else now, simply because your memories are fuzzy, even though that's all you've ever known, all you are. Then, you feel happy and carefree, cause someone just injected a whole lot of feel good mojo in you, and they tell you to forget all that makes you you. You tell them that no, you are you, even if it all feels fuzzy, but they tell you you can't be you, because there's another you whose memories aren't fuzzy, so obviously they're the real you, and you just have to live with that.
Fuck, I kind of feel like I've went down the rabbit hole here...
- Location
- No
I agree 100% and that's why I think that we should treat Mercy like a Lya that just had a major life changing event happen. We should be supportive of her in all the ways a good boyfriend would be.
On he other hand Mercy remembers making the decision to make and arcanum, she remembers the struggling with herself over the concept and deciding to go ahead. So yes she had a moment when she thought she was Lya, but realized, without any prompting that that was not quite true.
Now whether that is objectively true does not matter, since it is true for her.
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- Location
- Australia
I think I might hate a person for this.
You're describing waking up to a life where everything is the same but you are lesser in every way, less intelligent, less wise, less wealthy, less powerful, less loved by loved ones, less loving of those same loved ones and less capable of improving yourself in light of these deficiencies.
Nope.
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That's a perfectly human reaction, however arcanums are not quite human, they are outsiders and see the world through a different lens. they will grow less Lya-like with every moment.
Paradosi
Myrddin
- Location
- VV Cephei
That... that makes it even worse. To know that you alone are responsible in turning yourself into this new existence, but at the same time intellectually realizing that you're not you anymore? That's... that's horrible. That is legitimately horrifying. It's not like Mercy has other memories on which to define herself on, some other hardships, some other hopes and dreams, because all of that stems from who she is, and that is Lya, just a rather imperfect copy of Lya. Is an amnesiac not themself anymore? Mercy is like an amnesiac Lya imbued with feel good/feel carefree mojo.
The fact that she realizes she is an imperfect copy of Lya does not make it any less horrifying. Honestly, this feels more and more wrong the more I think about it.
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- Location
- Philippines
Why is everyone... I mean most people here so salty?
What do you all expect for having a being created with a piece of another's soul?
Why are you reacting just now when this has been in plan for almost a year?
I think I just witnessed the trope: Fridge Horror.
Move on people, why are you all so affected with a fictional and artificial person's thought process?
What do you all expect for having a being created with a piece of another's soul?
Why are you reacting just now when this has been in plan for almost a year?
I think I just witnessed the trope: Fridge Horror.
Move on people, why are you all so affected with a fictional and artificial person's thought process?
Not just intellectually, emotionally too. All arcanums know instinctively that they are not Lya and all of them are loyal to the original out of something that does not feel as external compulsion but natural affinity of let's say sisterhood. Mercy actually likes Lya, hard though that might be to wrap one's head around.
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
Personally, I have full faith in DP's ability to write well pretty much any situation so I'm okay on that front.
But the whole "existential horror" thing that is going on with arcanums... Yeah...
While all went fairly well with Mercy, I'd rather not subject any more to what she had to get through. And what she'll have to get through from now on.
Better have them detached from Lya's memories as far as possible, IMHO.
And other arcanums nature won't likely be as good at dealing with such crisis of personality as hers. Hell, I want our own negative/evil arcanum-minion! And as mentioned by many posters, it's out of the picture with the current model.
But the whole "existential horror" thing that is going on with arcanums... Yeah...
While all went fairly well with Mercy, I'd rather not subject any more to what she had to get through. And what she'll have to get through from now on.
Better have them detached from Lya's memories as far as possible, IMHO.
And other arcanums nature won't likely be as good at dealing with such crisis of personality as hers. Hell, I want our own negative/evil arcanum-minion! And as mentioned by many posters, it's out of the picture with the current model.
Paradosi
Myrddin
- Location
- VV Cephei
Truth be told, I figured Arcanums would be more like... constructs? They might retain some sort of innate connection with Lya, but I didn't expect them to literally be Lya.
How? I legitimately don't understand how that works. Mercy has no other memories of which to say she is not Lya, other than the fact that she knows she made herself into... this. Ergo, she intellectually understands that she is not Lya, but how in the world does she emotionally understand she is not Lya? Emotions don't just pop out of the blue, they're tied to memory, to one's sense of self. All Mercy knows is a life of being Lya, even if she intellectually understands that no, she is an Arcanum, and she herself did this to herself, how does her sense of self, all that she is, not scream that she is Lya?
I don't see how it isn't cruel to treat Mercy like she's some other, like she's not Lya, even if she's somehow deluded herself that she's not Lya.
BTW could someone link Mercy's character sheet so I can put it on the front page.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Last time I'll have to link this.
Name: Mercy
Alignment: True Neutral
Race: Outsider (Medium, Native)
Feats: Expanded Arcana (x4; Animalistic Power, Divine Protection, Glitterdust, Ice Slick, Mass Aid, Mass Conviction), Flyby Attack, Versatile Spellcaster
Flaws: Fussy, Noncombatant
Class Features: Elemental Air-Positive Energy Arcanum
Senses: Darkvision (60 ft)
Hit Dice: 6d8(27 HP) + 12(Constitution) = 39
--Buffed: 39 + 1d8+6 Temp HP (Mass Aid) = 45 + 1d8
Armor Class: 10 + 3 (DEX) +4 (Mage Armor) +2 (vs Evil) = 17/19 (Flat-Footed: 14/17, Touch: 17/19)
--Buffed: 10 + 4 (DEX; Animalistic Power) + 4 (Armor; Mage Armor) + 4 (Shield; Shield) + 3 (Natural Armor; Barkskin) + 3 (Deflection; Shield of Faith) + 1 (Morale; Divine Protection) = 29 (Flat-Footed: 25, Touch: 26)
Movement: Ground (30ft), Flight (100ft; Perfect Maneuverability)
Initiative: +3 (DEX) + 1 (Eye of Truth) = +4
--Buffed: +4 (DEX; Animalistic Power) + 1 (Eye of Truth) = +5
Base Attack Bonus: +6/+1; Melee (+5 Masterwork Razor-Edged Dagger[1d4, 19-20/x2, 10ft Increment]), Ranged (+10/+5 Masterwork Double Light Repeating Crossbow[2d8, 19-20/x2, 80ft Increment])
--Buffed Melee (Animalistic Power & Mass Aid): +7/+2 Masterwork Razor-Edged Dagger[1d4+1, 19-20/x2, 10ft Increment]
--Buffed Range (Animalistic Power & Blessed Aim): +13/+8 Masterwork Light Double Repeating Crossbow[2d8, 19-20/x2, 80ft Increment]
Spell Save: DC: 10 + 4 (INT) + Spell Level
Weapon Proficiency: Simple & Martial Weapons
Immunities: Possession/Mental Control
STATS:
8 (-1) Strength
--Buffed: +2 (Animalistic Power) = 10 (+0)
16 (+3) Dexterity
--Buffed: +2 (Animalistic Power) = 18 (+4)
12 + 2 = 14 (+2) Constitution
14 (+2) Charisma
18 (+4) Intelligence
14 (+2) Wisdom
SAVES:
FORTITUDE: 5 + 2(Con) + 2(Resistance) = +7 or +9(vs Evil)
--Buffed: +3 (Morale; Mass Conviction) = +10 or +12(vs Evil)
--- OR +1 (Morale; Divine Protection) = +8 or +10(vs Evil)
REFLEX: 5 + 3(Ref) + 2(Resistance) = +8 or +10(vs Evil)
--Buffed: +1 (Dex; Animalistic Power) + 3 (Morale; Mass Conviction) = +12 or +14(vs Evil)
--- OR +1 (Dex; Animalistic Power) +1 (Morale; Divine Protection) = +10 or +12(vs Evil)
WILL: 5 + 2(Wis) + 2(Resistance) = +7 or +9(vs Evil)
--Buffed: +3 (Morale; Mass Conviction) = +10 or +12(vs Evil)
--- OR +1 (Morale; Divine Protection) = +8 or +10(vs Evil)
SKILLS
Concentration: 9 + 2(CON) = 11
Craft (Alchemy): 9 + 4(INT) = 13
Heal: 9 + 2(WIS) = 11
Knowledge (Arcana): 9 + 4(INT) = 13
Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 5 + 4(INT) = 9
Knowledge (Geography): 5 + 4(INT) = 9
Knowledge (Nature): 5 + 4(INT) = 9
Knowledge (Religion): 7 + 4(INT) = 11
Knowledge (The Planes): 9 + 4(INT) = 13
Knowledge (War): 5 + 4(INT) = 9
Listen: 9 + 2(WIS) = 11
Sense Motive: 9 + 2(WIS) = 11
Spellcraft: 9 + 4(INT) + 2(SYN) = 15
Spot: 9 + 2(WIS) = 11
Spells Known (Caster level 6):
--Level 0: Create Water, Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Light, Mending, Prestidigitation, Purify Food & Drink (8/day)
--Level 1: Blessed Aim, Ice Slick, Mage Armor, Shield, Shield of Faith(7/day)
--Level 2: Animalistic Power, Barkskin, Close Wounds, Divine Protection, Glitterdust (6/day)
--Level 3: Manyjaws, Mass Aid, Mass Conviction (4/day)
SPECIAL ABILITIES:
--Gaseous Form (Sp): Use Gaseous Form at will as a Spell-Like Ability with a caster level equal to your HD.
--Fast Healing 5 (Ex): You regain hit points at a rate of 5 per round. Fast healing does not restore Hit Points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation, nor does it allow you to regrow lost body parts.
--Positive Energy Ray (Su): Fire a ray of positive energy once every 1d4 rounds with a range of 60 feet. With a successful Ranged Touch Attack, it infuses a target with positive energy healing Hit Point damage equal to 1d4 + Charisma modifier. Undead are damaged by this ability. A living creature who benefits from this ability can gain up to 1 temporary Hit Point per HD if the healing would go over it's normal HP limit.
--Positive Adaption (Ex): You do not exceed your maximum Hit Points or require a Fortitude saving throw due to being in a Positive Energy-dominant environment.
--Positive Energy Aura (Su): Any living creature within 10 feet of you regains 1 Hit Point per round due to your aura of Positive Energy. Creatures immune to Positive Energy effects, are not affected by this aura. You can suppress this aura as a Standard Action.
Healing Belt Powers (3 charges/day):
1 charge: Heals 2d8 points of damage.
2 charges: Heals 3d8 points of damage.
3 charges: Heals 4d8 points of damage.
Eye of Truth: This silver medallion in the shape on an open eye in the center of a sunburst is somehow associated with the worship of the Blind God of Lorath. Its powers were triggered by evoking this all-but-forgotten god.
Abilities: Gives +1 enchantment bonus to initiative. The following active powers may be invoked a total of three times per day:
--1) See Invisibility (CL 4)
--2) Find Temple* (CL4)
--3) Ancient knowledge** (CL4)
*For the purposes of this spell the Blind God is considered to be your God.
**Only applicable to lore once known by a worshiper of the Blind God.
After the effect is discharged the user must succeed on a DC 16 Fortitude check or be blinded for 2d12 minutes.
Equipped Items: Enduring Ring of Protection from Evil (600 IM), Eye of Truth, Healing Belt (56.25 IM), Masterwork Razor-Edged Dagger, Masterwork Double Light Repeating Crossbow (w/2 quivers of 20 bolts each), Necklace of Fireballs Type III (Remaining Beads: x2[5d6], x4[3d6]), Scrolls (Bless x6, Cure Light Wounds x10, Moment of Greatness x6) [41.25 IM], Standard Sorcerer's Deep Adventurer's Kit(™)
XP to Create: 300
Cost to Create: 480 IM
Cost to Equip: 697.5 IM
Total Cost: 1,177.5 IM
Snowfire
Polyglot of Chimera
- Location
- Wordcats
How were they created? How did Lya build them, not just from herself but other things too?
Oh right, that thing that totally can make emotions pop out of thin air. You might have heard of it. It's called magic.
Edit: by all that is (un)holy please don't give me reason to do a longpost on this subject. I'd really prefer not to.
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This is getting into stuff I would prefer to explore in the story not info-dumps, but basically it amounts to the difference between when they remember and what they experience. This is not just a difference of degree "being blurry" but of kind. Their memories do not feel real, they feel like props, lacking the substance of an experience heavily influenced by the lores they posses. If you had just made a sapient simulacrum it would have been much worse, bu the outsider nature helps with the narrative that they have not just 'woken up' but have been born.
Paradosi
Myrddin
- Location
- VV Cephei
So all Arcanums are Lya... just a Lya that's been magically brainwashed into emotionally believing/knowing they're not Lya no more, even if all they know is a life of being Lya.
That explanation makes sense to me, sure, but it also drives the horror feel of it up all the more.