There's also the possibility that Stannis get convinced, Renly abdicated willingly in favor of New Renly, he will grit his teeth over that a whole lot, but it's Renly's right to name his successor, of course this is only if we manage to convince Stannis that's what happened.
It's Renly's right to name his successor, provided said successor either marries into house Baratheon or bears Baratheon blood. Other Renly hasn't married into house Baratheon and definitely doesn't have Baratheon blood.

@tarrangar, by that logic you're saying that Stannis would keep his mouth shut if Renly decided to name Loras Tyrell his successor because it's Renly's "right" to choose his own heir.
 
It's Renly's right to name his successor, provided said successor either marries into house Baratheon or bears Baratheon blood. Other Renly hasn't married into house Baratheon and definitely doesn't have Baratheon blood.

@tarrangar, by that logic you're saying that Stannis would keep his mouth shut if Renly decided to name Loras Tyrell his successor because it's Renly's "right" to choose his own heir.
Other Renly is adopted into house Baratheon , it's a rare thing, but adoption can happen, and the adopted child can inherit.

Not that I expect Stannis to accept it long term, but seeing as New Renly is a good Lord, and was appointed by Old Renly, I could see Stannis agreeing to wait with ousting New Renly.

And I think New Renly has Baratheon blood in some way, he's a magical construct based on Renly, he's probably something like a Faeblooded clone of Renly.
 
Look, Stannis will probably cause trouble over this. But I'm hopeful (which I recognize is probably foolish) that this could work out. If not, I'd be happy if Not!Renly were join the hoard.

Though honestly I'm not super fussed about the Baratheon's keeping their ancestral holdings (on account of all the treason), so I'd probably want to side with Renplacement if a conflict came up. He and Stannis are both good lords, Stannis is a pain in the ass, Renl-ish isn't.
 
Other Renly is adopted into house Baratheon , it's a rare thing, but adoption can happen, and the adopted child can inherit.

Not that I expect Stannis to accept it long term, but seeing as New Renly is a good Lord, and was appointed by Old Renly, I could see Stannis agreeing to wait with ousting New Renly.

And I think New Renly has Baratheon blood in some way, he's a magical construct based on Renly, he's probably something like a Faeblooded clone of Renly.
The "adoption" was as far as official as you can get. For it to be an actual adoption, Robert as the king and head of house Baratheon would have had to approve it, and he absolutely didn't. This wasn't adoption, this was a supernatural force slipping in a replacement so intricate and detailed that nobody would have just cause to suspect other than "he's too good, isn't he?"
Not that I expect Stannis to accept it long term, but seeing as New Renly is a good Lord, and was appointed by Old Renly, I could see Stannis agreeing to wait with ousting New Renly.
You're seriously hoping for too much there. Stannis will take one look at the situation, think, "That's something that's not my brother in our house's ancestral seat," and then try everything in his power to remove Other Renly.
And I think New Renly has Baratheon blood in some way, he's a magical construct based on Renly, he's probably something like a Faeblooded clone of Renly.
That's flimsy at best. It'd be like naming one of Lya's constructs her heir because she used her blood to make them. It'd be like including a simulacrum as a recipient in our will. And I certainly don't see Stannis buying that argument. In his eyes (hell, in the eyes of the vast majority of stormlanders) Baratheons are born, not created. Just because Other Renly was created with the blood of the real Renly doesn't mean he has an actual claim to the Stormlands.
Though honestly I'm not super fussed about the Baratheon's keeping their ancestral holdings (on account of all the treason), so I'd probably want to side with Renplacement if a conflict came up. He and Stannis are both good lords, Stannis is a pain in the ass, Renl-ish isn't.
Stannis can be turned to be a pain in his brother's ass. We have put far too much effort into that to ever abandon that plan.
 
I see really no reason to leave Fenly here. Removing him and handing Storms End to Stannis would score us major points with the only competent Baratheon.

Meanwhile we can exploit Fenlys competence right now instead of waiting for years.
 
The "adoption" was as far as official as you can get. For it to be an actual adoption, Robert as the king and head of house Baratheon would have had to approve it, and he absolutely didn't. This wasn't adoption, this was a supernatural force slipping in a replacement so intricate and detailed that nobody would have just cause to suspect other than "he's too good, isn't he?"

You're seriously hoping for too much there. Stannis will take one look at the situation, think, "That's something that's not my brother in our house's ancestral seat," and then try everything in his power to remove Other Renly.

That's flimsy at best. It'd be like naming one of Lya's constructs her heir because she used her blood to make them. It'd be like including a simulacrum as a recipient in our will. And I certainly don't see Stannis buying that argument. In his eyes (hell, in the eyes of the vast majority of stormlanders) Baratheons are born, not created. Just because Other Renly was created with the blood of the real Renly doesn't mean he has an actual claim to the Stormlands.
I think you are a little too negative, sure if we just tell it as it is he will probably react like that, with our diplomacy score however, I'm sure we can get him to try to talk it out first at minimum.
 
That's flimsy at best. It'd be like naming one of Lya's constructs her heir because she used her blood to make them. It'd be like including a simulacrum as a recipient in our will. And I certainly don't see Stannis buying that argument. In his eyes (hell, in the eyes of the vast majority of stormlanders) Baratheons are born, not created. Just because Other Renly was created with the blood of the real Renly doesn't mean he has an actual claim to the Stormlands.
I the absence of other children or selected heirs I would propably call Lya's Arcanum's her heirs.
 
I think you are a little too negative, sure if we just tell it as it is he will probably react like that, with our diplomacy score however, I'm sure we can get him to try to talk it out first at minimum.
I'm really not being too negative, you're being unrealistically optimistic.

You're expecting Stannis, the most stubborn and unyielding man in Prime Material, to accept that not only did Renly voluntarily give up his house's ancestral seat, but that said seat (which Stannis has always fumed at not receiving, mind you) is currently being ruled by something that's not even human much less a true Baratheon. You're expecting him, the most stupidly Lawful character in ASOIAF, to accept how utterly trampled the laws of succession were, how he was passed over again.

That's just not going to happen.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, it'd be convenient for us if he didn't go guns blazing to see Other Renly removed, but I see no scenario where he doesn't make his move.
 
Last edited:
Alright, question time. What do we do if Other Renly won't abdicate, and wants to make a fight of it? Bobby won't listen to Stannis if his info comes from us, so he would probably intercede to stop Stannis from kinslaying after the evil Viserys Targaryen drove him mad with magical lies. Possibly costing us Stannis anyway.
What do we do when loot fights loot?
 
Last edited:
Let's just ransom Stannis to the Renplacement. Stannis is an asshole we caught in the process of trying to murder us and all of our people.

Renplacement won't hurt him. If anything, he'll probably be glad to see his "brother" alive and unharmed.

We'll be 12k IM richer and maybe Stannis will start a civil war. Win-win scenario, IMO.
 
I'm basically aligned with @Goldfish's blunt assessment of things.

Stannis is a good subordinate but not "indispensable" to us, and Other Renly isn't really either in the face of things. Either one would rule the Stormlands competently and adequately to our expectations of their accomplishing their observed duties.

Whoever wins, we win.
 
I'm basically aligned with @Goldfish's blunt assessment of things.

Stannis is a good subordinate but not "indispensable" to us, and Other Renly isn't really either in the face of things. Either one would rule the Stormlands competently and adequately to our expectations of their accomplishing their observed duties.

Whoever wins, we win.
Which is the nice thing about the whole situation, but I still want to maximise our gain.
 
Let's just ransom Stannis to the Renplacement. Stannis is an asshole we caught in the process of trying to murder us and all of our people.

Renplacement won't hurt him. If anything, he'll probably be glad to see his "brother" alive and unharmed.

We'll be 12k IM richer and maybe Stannis will start a civil war. Win-win scenario, IMO.
I'm basically aligned with @Goldfish's blunt assessment of things.

Stannis is a good subordinate but not "indispensable" to us, and Other Renly isn't really either in the face of things. Either one would rule the Stormlands competently and adequately to our expectations of their accomplishing their observed duties.

Whoever wins, we win.
One way or another I want Other Renly working for us in some capacity.
 
Better think of a way to broach the subject without coming off as blatantly opportunistic.
 
Better think of a way to broach the subject without coming off as blatantly opportunistic.
I mean, bottomline the only reason we're meeting in the first place is because we have Stannis and Other Renly offered a ransom.

And as much as we can unite to fight the creatures of darkness and all (which we should all recognize is less us working together and more them blatantly asking for our help since they're helpless), our houses are still at war.
 
The only this I think it's imperative to avoid is coming across like we'd back Stannis in his push to get rid of Fenly, to either of them.
If they want to fight, none of our business unless one of them wants to sign on the dotted line.
 
Hell, we can stright up give stannis the info we have regarding Frenly, let stannis know that while he is not his brother, we're confident that he will keep his word (lol), and will act as the man Renly wanted to be (in the role of 'Lord'), and we trust that you will be received safely. And probably let go (Frenly, having "bought" Stannis might want to keep his dear "brother" close as he was worried, and then other excuses. Forever, cuz Fey).

Hmm, if we go with leaving Stannis with Frenly, we should make sure that he indactes that Stannis will at least be with his family.

Also, im starting to think that Frenly was inplanted in Renly, then made to switch places, so now Renly is hidden, lost, unkowing of who he is, and hopefully unaware or having an awesome time, inside the alagamem of Frenly/Renly.
 
Best way to do things, I believe, would be to tell Renly at some point he's not the real Renly (he bleeds silver, so it's easily proven), but in private.

Then he can decide whether he wants to stay and live that life, knowing he'll probably have to fight Stannis over it or not. If he asks why we care, then tell him we investigated because we needed to make sure we weren't giving our prisoner to someone that'd kill him, but now we've met him and we're pretty sure he's a fine lord, so we'll give him Stannis. But Stannis knows the truth, because we mentioned it to him when we thought Renly could have been replaced by some malevolent being. So he'll have to deal with that.

So basically tell the truth, and maybe offer him to come with if he decides he should leave. If he decides to stay, they fight, and we win either way because we like both of them to a degree. If he leaves with us, we double win.

Either way we're more likely to lose if we force things, since it looks like we're picking a side, and if we do that then them fighting turns from 100% win for us to 50/50.
 
Last edited:
Yeah I'll admit I mostly see this as win-win so far. We release Stannis, get money, and he most likely causes a shakeup in the Storm lands, which throws egg in Roberts face by showing his embarrassing inability to keep his own house in order Aka duty of feudal patriarch 101. If Stannis is ignored/quickly squashed we still get the money and on the other end of the spectrum there's the "best end" of us getting FRenly and a more positively inclined Stannis (plus Davis) in charge. Actually that's a good point. Can we keep Davos pretty please? There's some potetional humor with Mealys regarding Davos and other Westerosi lords on the same level since theyre all non Valyrian savages to him!!!

Also I just got Wheel of Time liking a post on page 4489....
 
I'm really not being too negative, you're being unrealistically optimistic.

You're expecting Stannis, the most stubborn and unyielding man in Prime Material, to accept that not only did Renly voluntarily give up his house's ancestral seat, but that said seat (which Stannis has always fumed at not receiving, mind you) is currently being ruled by something that's not even human much less a true Baratheon. You're expecting him, the most stupidly Lawful character in ASOIAF, to accept how utterly trampled the laws succession were, how he was passed over again.

That's just not going to happen.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, it'd be convenient for us if he didn't go guns blazing to see Other Renly removed, but I see no scenario where he doesn't make his move.
I think we can convince him to at least try diplomacy first, and I think other Renly can be convinced to agree to a compromise, probably something about them working together to find the original Renly.

I think Stannis can understand, why New Renly wouldn't want to go before Robert and admit to being a copy, and Stannis can't just go usurp Renly, Robert would never stand for it, so I think they can come to an agreement, of New Renly ruling temporarily, but he's ready to hand it over to Stannis or original Renly, when it's possible without harming the realm.

It will need all our diplomacy, but I think we can do it.
 
I think we can convince him to at least try diplomacy first, and I think other Renly can be convinced to agree to a compromise, probably something about them working together to find the original Renly.

I think Stannis can understand, why New Renly wouldn't want to go before Robert and admit to being a copy, and Stannis can't just go usurp Renly, Robert would never stand for it, so I think they can come to an agreement, of New Renly ruling temporarily, but he's ready to hand it over to Stannis or original Renly, when it's possible without harming the realm.

It will need all our diplomacy, but I think we can do it.
Doubt it. This is Stannis, he'll break every bone in his body before he gives an inch on something like this. Allowing some imitator to pass as his brother and rule the lands that belong to him by right, even temporarily? He wouldn't agree to that any more than he would have to waiting while Joffrey ascended to the throne.

Let's remember he threw himself into fighting Renly in canon before he knew Melisandre could actually do what she did. He had every intention to take Storm's End and fight off the armies of the Reach and Stormlands through pure stubbornness, and then go take King's Landing, from Joffrey. And he'd have fought Tywin, and Robb too. He is that stubborn.
 
Last edited:
Well at the end of the day, it's really not our responsibility to keep order in House Baratheon... our ostensible arch enemy. Though that title really belongs more to Tiamat, given the scale we're operating on these days.

The Lannister-Baratheon pan-alliance hasn't been our main opponent since level 8. Which says something about this quest.
 
Back
Top