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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Hah, now I know what I forgot to mention the last few instances! Love the representation of True Sight.

DragonParadox said:
Basically you are not monstrous enough in person to evoke instant terror.
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Wait. We have too much Diplomacy!? xD

I say we deliver Stannis directly into the Red Keeps throne room, I wanna see them try to stop us.
 
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Azel said:
One of the core reasons why I want to get on with our conquests. It should finally hammer some respect into peoples thick skulls.

If that ain't working either? We gather 1000 dissidents on the greatest plaza of Tyrosh and establish the bloody pecking order.
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Hear, hear! While I'd like for that horrifying realization of 'Oh fuck, should have taken this guy more seriously,' to come from the pounding steps of our Legion marching in lockstep, clad in glorious masterwork armor and badass Targ colors, I can get behind the whole Dragon routine too.

Honestly, maybe we've been looking at this PR dilemma too narrowly. Perhaps we should give up on the 'not evil' angle and instead promote more of our lawfulness, our care for our subjects and our vision.

Anyway, speaking of legions, I was thinking for the First's insignia and came up with a long pole holding the Hand of the King upright, above a Valyrian numeral (I) (One) with two dragon wings flanking it. Its motto could be 'Light the Darkness'.
 
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Eh, let each legion earn its cognomen. I expect whatever legion has the minotaurs attached will end up with something related.
 
Deliste said:
Ally #1.

Roose is incredibly competent and Rob was a dropkick idiot with his only redeeming feature being decent in battle.
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I feel the need to point out that this is dubious at best. Roose is incredibly competent relative to Ramsay, but at the same time:

* Earliest chronological mention: he suggested executing Barristan after the Trident. Fortunately for Robert and Ned, they didn't listen, and instead Barristan became LC of Robert's Kingsguard and a major symbol of legitimacy for the Baratheon dynasty.

* On the Green Fork - long before the war was actually lost - he was already making sure to keep his own forces in the reserve to make sure that he would have a larger proportion of the army, so as to have leverage over Robb. (There's word of GRRM on this.)

* Responsible for unusual levels of brutality in the Riverlands, i.e. allied territory, during the Wot5K (even before he fully turned traitor, IIRC).

* Generally sadistic to the extreme, with his main motivation apparently being boredom. See also: the story of Ramsay's conception.

* And the epitome of this - what he gets out of his betrayal, once he's temporarily won in Dance. Nominally rules the North. However, all his bannermen hate him, his only heir is Ramsay, and Stannis and the Others await in the far north, with the Lannisters not bothering to send any sort of aid to him. While being a party to the Red Wedding, and one of two Houses that broke guest right in really dramatic fashion, earning grudges that aren't going away anytime soon (the Lannisters were involved, sure, but they have plausible deniability... which is of course no accident, because Tywin is competent). Very likely, in sum, to be the last Lord Bolton even without any Stark resurgence. Though to be fair he doesn't seem to care too much about that.

I mean, I'm not even sure he's Lawful Evil. Chaotic Evil, maybe - not Stupid Chaotic Evil like his son, admittedly, but still.

Robb was fourteen to sixteen during the events of the books, and honestly, while he messed up in a number of ways, the biggest reasons he lost was the Lannister-Tyrell alliance (which he had no control over) and Theongate (which was an understandable mistake, in that the mistake was in assuming Balon was sane). Jeynegate was pretty much irrelevant: the Boltons and Freys had jumped ship by that point already. Also, don't understimate just how hard it was for Robb to get the loyalty from his bannermen that he did.

[X] Agree to find another descendant
 
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bigbow said:
Hear, hear! While I'd like for that horrifying realization of 'Oh fuck, should have taken this guy more seriously,' to come from the pounding steps of our Legion marching in lockstep, clad in glorious masterwork armor and badass Targ colors, I can get behind the whole Dragon routine too.
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What I've taken from DPs explanation is that our reputation is perfectly capable of scaring away potential allies, but everyone who meets us in person thinks us weak, too softspoken to have done half the stuff attributed to us and mostly like a prancing loudmouth to take advantage off.

I'm seeing a Sons of the Harpy stile insurrection coming up for exactly that reason.
"Oh, but he minimised losses during the conquest. He clearly has not the guts to fight us."
"He is trying to convince people to join him instead of strong-arming them. He's clearly spineless."
"He cares so much about the population. Let's do a terror campaign! He wouldn't be willing to strike at us while we hide among the innocent."

At which point we hunt them down like animals. Then we have a nice show trial for a few hundred of them. Then we have barbecue.

Rinse and repeat until the message sinks in.

The Legions alone won't convince people. They will still think us too scared to deploy them.
So the one and only solution to this is making a show of it. Show them what it looks like when we are pushed too far.
 
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VNodosaurus said:
I feel the need to point out that this is dubious at best. Roose is incredibly competent relative to Ramsay, but at the same time:

* Earliest chronological mention: he suggested executing Barristan after the Trident. Fortunately for Robert and Ned, they didn't listen, and instead Barristan became LC of Robert's Kingsguard and a major symbol of legitimacy for the Baratheon dynasty.

* On the Green Fork - long before the war was actually lost - he was already making sure to keep his own forces in the reserve to make sure that he would have a larger proportion of the army, so as to have leverage over Robb. (There's word of GRRM on this.)

* Responsible for unusual levels of brutality in the Riverlands, i.e. allied territory, during the Wot5K (even before he fully turned traitor, IIRC).

* Generally sadistic to the extreme, with his main motivation apparently being boredom. See also: the story of Ramsay's conception.

* And the epitome of this - what he gets out of his betrayal, once he's temporarily won in Dance. Nominally rules the North. However, all his bannermen hate him, his only heir is Ramsay, and Stannis and the Others await in the far north, with the Lannisters not bothering to send any sort of aid to him. While being a party to the Red Wedding, and one of two Houses that broke guest right in really dramatic fashion, earning grudges that aren't going away anytime soon (the Lannisters were involved, sure, but they have plausible deniability... which is of course no accident, because Tywin is competent). Very likely, in sum, to be the last Lord Bolton even without any Stark resurgence. Though to be fair he doesn't seem to care too much about that.

I mean, I'm not even sure he's Lawful Evil. Chaotic Evil, maybe - not Stupid Chaotic Evil like his son, admittedly, but still.

Robb was fourteen to sixteen during the events of the books, and honestly, while he messed up in a number of ways, the biggest reasons he lost was the Lannister-Tyrell alliance (which he had no control over) and Theongate (which was an understandable mistake, in that the mistake was in assuming Balon was sane). Jeynegate was pretty much irrelevant: the Boltons and Freys had jumped ship by that point already.

[X] Agree to find another descendant
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I agree with your analysis but would add some points.

Nobody realised what he was doing, he intelligently worked within his bounds.
The North was never going to win the war but with a Frey alliance they could have held the Neck, let the rest of the kingdom tear itself apart and gain large concessions, to all appearances he won the battles he needed to and retained a stronger army at the expense of his neighbours in the East of the North.

He failed on some assumptions, but his were more excusable than many others.

The Night's Watch allying with Stannis to invade South shouldn't be a consideration in any right thinking Northman's mind.

It was borderline Deus ex in story for that to happen.

If Ned Stark was alive he'd likely spit in anger even when the move defended his house, it's that bad a deviation from tradition.
 
Azel said:
What I've taken from DPs explanation is that our reputation is perfectly capable of scaring away potential allies, but everyone who meets us in person thinks us weak, too softspoken to have done half the stuff attributed to us and mostly like a prancing loudmouth to take advantage off.

I'm seeing a Sons of the Harpy stile insurrection coming up for exactly that reason.
"Oh, but he minimised losses during the conquest. He clearly has not the guts to fight us."
"He is trying to convince people to join him instead of strong-arming them. He's clearly spineless."
"He cares so much about the population. Let's do a terror campaign! He wouldn't be willing to strike at us while we hide among the innocent."

At which point we hunt them down like animals. Then we have a nice show trial for a few hundred of them. Then we have barbecue.

Rinse and repeat until the message sinks in.
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Part of the reason I want to tavern hop, we go around being affable and uprooting the snarks plaguing the common man.

The good word spreads.

Lannister spies start sitting in taverns.

Likely avoids direct confrontation and instead tries to stamp out our budding support.

We come back and crush the living shit out of anyone and anything who dares touch our subjects.

We have demonstrated we care, are present, approachable, powerful and vengeful.

The common man now not only feels free to speak up but probably takes delight in tweaking the nose of more local powers by using us to talk shit about them with the spectre of Draconic protection.
 
Deliste said:
I agree with your analysis but would add some points.

Nobody realised what he was doing, he intelligently worked within his bounds.
The North was never going to win the war but with a Frey alliance they could have held the Neck, let the rest of the kingdom tear itself apart and gain large concessions, to all appearances he won the battles he needed to and retained a stronger army at the expense of his neighbours in the East of the North.

He failed on some assumptions, but his were more excusable than many others.

The Night's Watch allying with Stannis to invade South shouldn't be a consideration in any right thinking Northman's mind.

It was borderline Deus ex in story for that to happen.

If Ned Stark was alive he'd likely spit in anger even when the move defended his house, it's that bad a deviation from tradition.
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Oh, he's not an idiot by any measure. I don't think he's "incredibly competent", but he's certainly competent.

But he's a nightmare of a subordinate/ally to have. He's sadistic enough to be a major PR problem, while completely lacking in loyalty, and doesn't care deeply about much so we have no way of getting leverage.
 
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Deliste said:
Part of the reason I want to tavern hop, we go around being affable and uprooting the snarks plaguing the common man.

The good word spreads.

Lannister spies start sitting in taverns.

Likely avoids direct confrontation and instead tries to stamp out our budding support.

We come back and crush the living shit out of anyone and anything who dares touch our subjects.

We have demonstrated we care, are present, approachable, powerful and vengeful.

The common man now not only feels free to speak up but probably takes delight in tweaking the nose of more local powers by using us to talk shit about them with the spectre of Draconic protection.
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Maybe add some free healing magic for villagers during out random pub crawling?
 
Goldfish said:
Maybe add some free healing magic for villagers during out random pub crawling?
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Of course, the plan is to wander around Westeros like the Rightful King would, at first it will be a bit clandestine but eventually it will become an event for the townsfolk and Lords start having to choose between turning a blind eye and getting the stink from KL or coming down hard and getting the repercussions of Dragon.

Anything to help out the peasantry at little or no cost and crush threats to their lives be it monster or man.

Heal the lame, give sight to the blind and have them ask why they should have any loyalty to people who up to date have had no interaction with them besides taxation and more recently an obstruction to their continued health and wellbeing.
 
@Goldfish, would you mind telling me how much the armor jumped in value from when we first had it identified to now?

Ancient Valyrian Armor


Apperance: Armor of finest make, rarely seen outside Valyria itself, forged after a pattern older than the Freehold itself, plate of a kind you have seen only once in dreams: its lines flowing into a masterful whole, as frightful as it is imposing, its surface marked with a spiderweb of protective signs and wardings. Alas, there is good reason why it rested undisturbed for so long among the tumbled stones of Essaria's grave. To the eye of a mage the armor shines with malice, a curse or perhaps a haunting by some mighty wraith.

Abilities:

Mundane Qualities: Reinforced (+1 AC); Segmented (+1 max Dex bonus)

Base enchantment: +2 Enchantment bonus to AC; Fire Resistance 30

Greater powers (CL 10):

The item has 7 charges which recharge daily at midnight. They can be used in one of two ways:


1 charge: Infernal Healing
3 charges: Lesser Globe of Invulnerability

Flaw: Every time the user spends a charge, there is a 5% chance he is sickened by the pain until the effect ends either naturally or being dispelled. Using a second power during this interval will cause him to become nauseated.

Armor of Remembrance


Apperance: To eyes that see naught but the light of common day, the armor is still black as steel scorched by flame, but where before its weaving of protective wards glowed red as new-spilled blood, now it is the comforting ruddy color of forge fire, the marks of devils shifted into a tongue that resounds of higher powers at the merest glance from one blessed with arcane senses.

Abilities:

Mundane Qualities: Reinforced (+1 AC); Segmented (+1 max Dex bonus)

Base enchantment: +2 Enchantment bonus to AC; Fire Resistance 30

Greater powers (CL 10):

The item has 12 charges which recharge daily at dawn. They can be used in the following ways:


1 charge: Celestial Healing
3 charges: Lesser Globe of Invulnerability
9 charges: Holy Aura (DC 20)
 
Duesal said:
@Goldfish, would you mind telling me how much the armor jumped in value from when we first had it identified to now?

Ancient Valyrian Armor


Apperance: Armor of finest make, rarely seen outside Valyria itself, forged after a pattern older than the Freehold itself, plate of a kind you have seen only once in dreams: its lines flowing into a masterful whole, as frightful as it is imposing, its surface marked with a spiderweb of protective signs and wardings. Alas, there is good reason why it rested undisturbed for so long among the tumbled stones of Essaria's grave. To the eye of a mage the armor shines with malice, a curse or perhaps a haunting by some mighty wraith.

Abilities:

Mundane Qualities: Reinforced (+1 AC); Segmented (+1 max Dex bonus)

Base enchantment: +2 Enchantment bonus to AC; Fire Resistance 30

Greater powers (CL 10):

The item has 7 charges which recharge daily at midnight. They can be used in one of two ways:


1 charge: Infernal Healing
3 charges: Lesser Globe of Invulnerability

Flaw: Every time the user spends a charge, there is a 5% chance he is sickened by the pain until the effect ends either naturally or being dispelled. Using a second power during this interval will cause him to become nauseated.

Armor of Remembrance


Apperance: To eyes that see naught but the light of common day, the armor is still black as steel scorched by flame, but where before its weaving of protective wards glowed red as new-spilled blood, now it is the comforting ruddy color of forge fire, the marks of devils shifted into a tongue that resounds of higher powers at the merest glance from one blessed with arcane senses.

Abilities:

Mundane Qualities: Reinforced (+1 AC); Segmented (+1 max Dex bonus)

Base enchantment: +2 Enchantment bonus to AC; Fire Resistance 30

Greater powers (CL 10):

The item has 12 charges which recharge daily at dawn. They can be used in the following ways:


1 charge: Celestial Healing
3 charges: Lesser Globe of Invulnerability
9 charges: Holy Aura (DC 20)
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The fast healing is half as good now, both Fast Healing 1 but went from 1 minute duration to 30 second duration.
Adhoc vote count started by Deliste on Dec 21, 2017 at 8:05 PM, finished with 131356 posts and 18 votes.
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Deliste said:
The fast healing is half as good now, both Fast Healing 1 but went from 1 minute duration to 30 second duration.
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True, but the flaw is gone:
Flaw: Every time the user spends a charge, there is a 5% chance he is sickened by the pain until the effect ends either naturally or being dispelled. Using a second power during this interval will cause him to become nauseated.
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And there's now a Holy Aura option.

I'm hoping this at least doubles the value of the armor. Ser Richard is now wearing the wealth of a small kingdom.
 
VNodosaurus said:
Oh, he's not an idiot by any measure. I don't think he's "incredibly competent", but he's certainly competent.

But he's a nightmare of a subordinate/ally to have. He's sadistic enough to be a major PR problem, while completely lacking in loyalty, and doesn't care deeply about much so we have no way of getting leverage.
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What I most value with him is his focus on stability.

A quiet people is his ideal, and his hate for child rulers come from that.

He does some heinous things, but it seems more than anything he's a boundary tester. I doubt he'd try the same under Ned Stark.

Roose is a good subordinate if following you achieves that, he's Darkside Stannis.

[X] Yes find descendants.
-[X] Ask Deva for its name, promise not to bind it.
-[X] See if the general could reveal military facilities and knowledge ect lost after the Doom.
--[X] If it helps Viserys is a trueborn Targaryen.

I'd really rather not give Yrael any advantage until he starts paying dividends, to date he's been nothing but a shiny parasite.
 
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Azel said:
What I've taken from DPs explanation is that our reputation is perfectly capable of scaring away potential allies, but everyone who meets us in person thinks us weak, too softspoken to have done half the stuff attributed to us and mostly like a prancing loudmouth to take advantage off.

I'm seeing a Sons of the Harpy stile insurrection coming up for exactly that reason.
"Oh, but he minimised losses during the conquest. He clearly has not the guts to fight us."
"He is trying to convince people to join him instead of strong-arming them. He's clearly spineless."
"He cares so much about the population. Let's do a terror campaign! He wouldn't be willing to strike at us while we hide among the innocent."

At which point we hunt them down like animals. Then we have a nice show trial for a few hundred of them. Then we have barbecue.

Rinse and repeat until the message sinks in.

The Legions alone won't convince people. They will still think us too scared to deploy them.
So the one and only solution to this is making a show of it. Show them what it looks like when we are pushed too far.
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Mmmm, sheer brutality is clumsy, and can act as a unifying force. We need to turn the nobles against each other, both families, and father against son, cousin against cousin. Demand the head of houses to publicly denounce and shame their captured sons before they are executed. If they agree, they're publicly seen betraying sons and nephews who they probably encouraged to rebel. If they refuse, they are advocating rebellion, and thus also should be executed. Divest them of their property, but then grant control of most of it (after claiming a portion) to...a randomly selected male member of their household (who will be willing to bend the knee by this point), not that we mention that it was random. They'll be viewed with suspicion by their own family members. If a household is small enough that it's pretty much wiped out, take a portion, and then grant the rest to...an unimplicated neighbor, preferably already wealthy.

Did the wealthy neighbor turn them in? Did the cousin who inherited only speak so loudly for fighting back earlier, so they could sell their family members to the dragon lord and profit? Sow mistrust and disunity among those who would want to organize against us, and encourage them to want to target "traitors," which has the nice benefit of encouraging part of the ruling class to defect and inform on the others for their own safety, or spend their own resources to clean up their more rabble rousing relatives to ensure they're not killed in their sleep.
 
Diomedon said:
Mmmm, sheer brutality is clumsy, and can act as a unifying force. We need to turn the nobles against each other, both families, and father against son, cousin against cousin. Demand the head of houses to publicly denounce and shame their captured sons before they are executed. If they agree, they're publicly seen betraying sons and nephews who they probably encouraged to rebel. If they refuse, they are advocating rebellion, and thus also should be executed. Divest them of their property, but then grant control of most of it (after claiming a portion) to...a randomly selected male member of their household (who will be willing to bend the knee by this point), not that we mention that it was random. They'll be viewed with suspicion by their own family members. If a household is small enough that it's pretty much wiped out, take a portion, and then grant the rest to...an unimplicated neighbor, preferably already wealthy.

Did the wealthy neighbor turn them in? Did the cousin who inherited only speak so loudly for fighting back earlier, so they could sell their family members to the dragon lord and profit? Sow mistrust and disunity among those who would want to organize against us, and encourage them to want to target "traitors," which has the nice benefit of encouraging part of the ruling class to defect and inform on the others for their own safety, or spend their own resources to clean up their more rabble rousing relatives to ensure they're not killed in their sleep.
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That's a truly delightful plan you've got there.
 
Duesal said:
True, but the flaw is gone:

And there's now a Holy Aura option.

I'm hoping this at least doubles the value of the armor. Ser Richard is now wearing the wealth of a small kingdom.
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I'm going to price this based on the spells being 15th level, rather than the 10th level DP currently has it set to, since minimum caster level to put Energy Resistance 30 into a magic armor is 15th and Holy Aura has a minimum caster level of 15th when used in a magic item or cast by a Cleric. That would also make the caster level of the other abilities 15th. 15th caster level is also much more appropriate for a minor artifact than 10th level.

Using a shared pool of charges complicates pricing it by quite a bit, but we can at least make some inferences and guesstimates.

+2 Armor: 4,000 gold
Fire Resistance 30: 66,000 gold
15th Caster Level Holy Aura 1/Day: 43,200 gold
15th Caster Level Lesser Globe of Invulnerability 3/Day: 64,787 (or 21,600 gold for 1/Day)
15th Caster Level Celestial Healing 3/Day: 16,197 gold
Total: 197,184 gold (or 153,997 gold)

Like I said, however, shared charges muddy the waters quite a bit. If we instead assume the Lesser Globe of Invulnerability effect is a 1/Day power, considering that it is significantly lower in level and power than Holy Aura, the price for that effect would come down to 21,600 gold.

And if we can convince DP to increase the Enhancement bonus to +3, which again would be much more appropriate for a minor artifact, that would add another 5,000 gold to the cost.

So, if we wanted to recreate this armor, or come very close to it at least, it would cost 153,997 gold (30,799 IM) for a +2 Enhancement with Fire Resistance 30, and Holy Aura 1/Day, Lesser Globe of Invulnerability 1/Day, and Celestial Healing 3/Day at 15th caster level. Or 158,997 gold (31,799 IM) if it has a +3 Enhancement.

If DP decides to leave the armor's caster level at 10th, however, despite that being completely impossible if you are even paying minor lip service to the item creation rules, the price would come down to 123,998 gold (24,800 IM)
 
So, let me get this straight: The armor looks as evil as before, thus generating bad PR with mortals, but instantly screams "We are a good boy" to fiends so that they try to murder us.

Make room in the Salt Jacuzzi for me, I need to relax.
 
Tomcost said:
So, let me get this straight: The armor looks as evil as before, thus generating bad PR with mortals, but instantly screams "We are a good boy" to fiends so that they try to murder us.

Make room in the Salt Jacuzzi for me, I need to relax.
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This basically means we have to make one of @Azel's Greater Ribbons of Disguise, this time with an Alignment Concealment effect (even if Ser Richard isn't Good, the Armor reeks of it) if we ever want to bring him to Molten Skies ever again.
 
Maybe just give it a blanket Fast Healing 1 always active power or something, that can only be activated if you wear the armor for at least 24 hours or something?
 
Duesal said:
This basically means we have to make one of @Azel's Greater Ribbons of Disguise, this time with an Alignment Concealment effect (even if Ser Richard isn't Good, the Armor reeks of it) if we ever want to bring him to Molten Skies ever again.
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Or we kill anyone who gives us shit and loot and sell the corpse.
Or pick up a turtle.

Edit: Dany wore a half-celestial template and we wern't bothered by anyone except the Bey for it.
 
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BeepSmile said:
Or we kill anyone who gives us shit and loot and sell the corpse.
Or pick up a turtle.
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I'd much rather not wave a bright neon sign that says "Please Attack Us". If we get access to Molten Skies again I'd much rather just trade there at the risk of the normal encounter table, rather than everything on the encounter table having a much higher chance of trying to kill us. It's disruptive as hell and too much of it will draw the ire of the Sultan well before we're ready to actually fight him.

In the face of that the Greater Ribbon of Disguise is a small price to pay. And I wanted those ribbons anyway, I've wanted them for months now.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
It heals all of 5 damage now.

Out of a three digit hp.
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We need to address this issue with DP. It's stupid that the Celestial Healing spell lasts half as long as the Infernal Healing spell, when they are both the same level and essentially identical except for fluff text.

As I mentioned earlier, the caster level of the armor needs to be raised to 15th level, too, just so it can have Fire Resistance 30 and Holy Aura as a spell. If Celestial Healing has a duration of 1 round/level, and it's cast at 15th level, it suddenly becomes much more useful.

Ryuan's idea of constant Fast Healing 1 also makes sense. It's not too powerful, and helps explain the strong aura of Goodness the armor now radiates.
 
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Goldfish said:
We need to address this issue with DP. It's stupid that the Celestial Healing spell lasts half as long as the Infernal Healing spell, when they are both the same level and essentially identical except for fluff text.

As I mentioned earlier, the caster level of the armor needs to be raised to 15th level, too, just so it can have Fire Resistance 30 and Holy Aura as a spell. If Celestial Healing has a duration of 1 round/level, and it's cast at 15th level, it suddenly becomes much more useful.
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I'll make sure to try to bring it up with DP tomorrow.
 
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