I don't really mean a second thread for the same quest. ASWAH is effectively a dead quest.

The main thrust of my argument is 1) DM style compatibility and 2) the functional impossibility of the previous play style rendering this into a narrative-genre quest instead of a mechanics-heavy genre quest.

Which means it should be retired and a new project should be worked on.

I argue this because in all sincerity I don't see old players being able to do much more than muddle or twiddle thumbs or generally express some level of dissatisfaction with how things are going, or alternatively new players cannot participate as they are effectively blocked by the previous investment required to do their participation buy-in now.
Narrator: "What he was not aware of is that Azel had made the very same argument to DP before, but as it turns out, bullheadedness is an infinite resource."
This isn't very fair. I'm 100% on board with the simplification, like the latest changes, and hope this quest continues.
I just don't think that this latest crisis is a very good choice. What next, "is this destitute noble lying to us" as a decision point ? Lack of water isn't a huge problem in D&D.
1. I'm trying not do be too accusatory to specific people. If you feel that the statement is unfair to you, then you were probably not meant with it. (In fact, you were not. Your support has been noted and appreciated.)
2. To be fair, I somewhat agree, but seeing it from behind the scenes, I can tell you that DP often struggled to find meaningful... well... anything with meaning to have a vote about.
 
Regarding the possible quests: they all seem unconfortably open-ended. Would they at least have immediate early antagonists and hooks for readers? I'll follow because I liked this quest, but I'll admit that if I'd seen anyone else give me those pitches I wouldn't have investigated them (except maybe the Lost Legion one).
Yeah, that's my main issue. I demand immediate, compelling plot hooks and stuff that gets me invested with my foot in the door, or I could care less about any of these characters.

Why do I care about some tribe of primitives on the edge of survival uplifting themselves? I've read a bunch of content kinda like that, but it is generally a side-show to the character drama occurring within it. It can't propel a quest on its own merit, it's more the playdoh that forms the backdrop to it.

The idea is to have a strong early hook. One of the few things that worked really well in early ASWAH was the threat of Robert and company making people invested
 
And, even on the risk of being tasteless, can I say that this is very, very funny in a meta-sense.

Purify Food and Drink, was our very first bit of real magical infrastructure. Our attempt at using magic on more than party-scale.
It was planned out all the way back when Lya had her first crafting feat, to clean the sewers and make saltwater drinkable. I think in form of rings around piping that auto-cleansed all water coming through.

It was also among the first effects we used in Saltcliff, our very first conquest. We build a basin enchanted with Purify Food and Water because the local wells were unreliable.

That this very first bit of magical creation that went beyond regular D&D uses of enchantment would also be the death knell of the quest, is a great closing of the book.
 
The idea is to have a strong early hook. One of the few things that worked really well in early ASWAH was the threat of Robert and company making people invested
It'd also help to take notes right from the start. If your new quest continues for years on end, keeping track of everything solely in your head is not going to fly. You saw first hand the pitfalls of that strategy.
 
And, even on the risk of being tasteless, can I say that this is very, very funny in a meta-sense.

Purify Food and Drink, was our very first bit of real magical infrastructure. Our attempt at using magic on more than party-scale.
It was planned out all the way back when Lya had her first crafting feat, to clean the sewers and make saltwater drinkable. I think in form of rings around piping that auto-cleansed all water coming through.

It was also among the first effects we used in Saltcliff, our very first conquest. We build a basin enchanted with Purify Food and Water because the local wells were unreliable.

That this very first bit of magical creation that went beyond regular D&D uses of enchantment would also be the death knell of the quest, is a great closing of the book.

For what it is worth this does not feel tasteless to me, it is kind of funny actually, indeed the fact that I can laugh at it is probably a good sign that I can see this ended without too much bitterness, it is not like the other times I considered ending this quest when it felt like I was ripping a piece of me away

It'd also help to take notes right from the start. If your new quest continues for years on end, keeping track of everything solely in your head is not going to fly. You saw first hand the pitfalls of that strategy.

You give me far too much credit by calling that a strategy, but yes notes and more notes will be involved.
 
I don't mind a new ideas but I would seriously advice against using the pathfinder system if you want to do the goblin civilisation. Because it will have the same problems.

Just use some of the more narrtively beneficial systems like fate.
 
And, even on the risk of being tasteless, can I say that this is very, very funny in a meta-sense.

Purify Food and Drink, was our very first bit of real magical infrastructure. Our attempt at using magic on more than party-scale.
It was planned out all the way back when Lya had her first crafting feat, to clean the sewers and make saltwater drinkable. I think in form of rings around piping that auto-cleansed all water coming through.

It was also among the first effects we used in Saltcliff, our very first conquest. We build a basin enchanted with Purify Food and Water because the local wells were unreliable.

That this very first bit of magical creation that went beyond regular D&D uses of enchantment would also be the death knell of the quest, is a great closing of the book.
After all this salt, I'm hesitant to say this, since it might come off as angry even through it's not meant so.

But I really have to say that I want to throw a few bookends at you for this. :V
 
I can tell you that DP often struggled to find meaningful... well... anything with meaning to have a vote about.
Yes, I do think DP could do with more updates without votes. And maybe even timeskips now that we've got short-term stability and are building up to bigger fights (although lots of the recent policy votes have been interesting to me - I've just been traveling these past few weeks and generally have no WiFi to post).

The idea is to have a strong early hook. One of the few things that worked really well in early ASWAH was the threat of Robert and company making people invested
Maybe put those in the elevator pitch?
The Legion has "search for a magical way home" as an obvious motivation (beyond "don't starve or get killed", which all quests have and which isn't enough to be interesting).
 
I'd be curious to see DP's take on a Cyberpunk quest, or a tech/magic clash setting (see: Arcanum, Shadowrun).
 
The problem with updates without votes is they all too often do not get any engagement beyond likes. I do not know what the players think of it beyond 'dutifully click button'
To illustrate: Mind that we had 3 updates on the same page today. One from DP, then my battle report and then another from DP.

Lack of preceived engagement is a real quest killer since it is murder on the QMs motivation to invest effort.
 
The problem with updates without votes is they all too often do not get any engagement beyond likes. I do not know what the players think of it beyond 'dutifully click button'
if you want lots of engagement, allow omakes for bonuses in-quest.

Problem is, it's caustic and destroys difficulty and challenge unless shackled inhumanly tight from the moment it's introduced (so the bonuses are, effectively, same as "gain 1 more character in the quest by having ~15 chapters of omakes establishing them". Like Crake had).

So like as not, you just need to believe in me who believes in you yourself, and just write as you do.
Empty votes are worse for the story than no votes. I've no solution for the percieved lack of engagement, not really,
 
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The problem with updates without votes is they all too often do not get any engagement beyond likes. I do not know what the players think of it beyond 'dutifully click button'
I mean, your particular style in this quest gives people relativly little time to engage?

Let's look at From Hell's Heart, your quest, so no arguments about different writers.
forums.sufficientvelocity.com

From Hell's Heart: A Warhammer Fantasy Quest Fantasy

You are a Rogue Daemon of Chaos, a newborn god of Order, looking to carve out a place in the Aethyr even as your followers do so in the world of form. Good luck, you are going to need it.
forums.sufficientvelocity.com

From Hell's Heart: A Warhammer Fantasy Quest Fantasy

You are a Rogue Daemon of Chaos, a newborn god of Order, looking to carve out a place in the Aethyr even as your followers do so in the world of form. Good luck, you are going to need it.
forums.sufficientvelocity.com

From Hell's Heart: A Warhammer Fantasy Quest Fantasy

You are a Rogue Daemon of Chaos, a newborn god of Order, looking to carve out a place in the Aethyr even as your followers do so in the world of form. Good luck, you are going to need it.

These are the last three updates without votes.
Were they followed by few or unengaged comments? Were people clearly just waiting for the next update to drop with no further interest in what was written?
I'd say we can say very clearly that is not the case.

If the structure of the quest is right and the players are already somewhat engaged or at least interested, an update with no votes will still definitly generate posts, often even engagement and discussion.

Edit: Yes, towards the end of this quest things are (were?) a bit different. Many long-time players are kinda burned out, many new readers don't really write much ( I think this quest looks rather intimidating).
But that need not be the case for a new quest, I think.
 
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So here are my ideas for quests I would have fun writing and I think you would have fun reading and that would scratch the same itch as ASWAH in one way or another. All are original quests because I promised myself that I would do more original writing... I think it was two years ago. Damn it has been a long time

I have an idea for a quest you would consider it .

you play as a reincarnated OC SI set in the forgotten realms D&D setting .

The MC's bio and its effects in game goes as follows
- first the MC dies of old age and natural causes at the age of 89 so he gets the venerable specials rule giving his a +5 to charisma , intelligence and wisdom without the maluses cause he is reincarnated (why he has something so OP will make since when I bring up the house rules )

- second the MC in life was a chemist ,engineer and machinist as well as having served as a combat engineer in an ambiguous war this translates to being able to make stuff like fire arms for example revolvers and having the training to use them effectively as well but his crafting is locked behind getting an education as a blacksmith(to make the tools he needs to make the tools he wants) and an alchemist (because chemical compounds in D&D might have different names and even properties compared to what he knows)

-The MC knows two things about forgotten realms first is wizard is the best class and the only one he will accepted because they scale exponentially and are independent unlike warlocks and clerics who need to beg higher beings for there power , the second which will be his main motivation and drive as a character is that he knows that by the laws of the realms that govern the afterlife he is considered as an atheist and will be condemned to the lowest reaches of Baator or the wall of faithless if he dies so the MC is determined to live forever , will never sacrifice his life for any reason and will make as many contingencies to avert , circumvent or deny his death as possible(short of becoming a Lich) whenever they become available . The MC's second motivation will be a love and curiosity of magic which will build up though the story as it progress which will be his main drive after the MC attins every contingency against death a wizard could reasonably attain

House rules for the quest
1) the MC is utterly terrified of death and refused to become an adventurer and considers adventures to be lunatic murder hobos , so he will not be joining any parties or going on any adventures if he can help it , sure he can have friends , acquaintances ,business partners , mentors and stuff but these are not party members he would go on deadly adventures with

2) the MC does not level up through adventuring or going out and killing monsters to gain exp points , the MC levels up as a wizard the old fashion way through study , research and hard work . the MC goes out to buy spell scrolls to study , he experiments and test on spells he knows to comprehend new ways to apply them and understand the metaphysics behind the school of magic it comes from , he conditions himself to handle and control greater amounts of magical power and through intense meditation trains his mind to hold a larger number of spells or hold greater more powerful spells . each level of wizard will be its own ark with the goal being to level up , of course each subsequent level takes more time , effort ,material and resources with the main conflict of the quest being the gaining of those material and resources

3) the MC has no plans , desire or wants to be any sort of king or ruler and will at most accept having a large fortified private estate but nothing more

here is an example of an ark or two in the quest I have in mind

The MC is now a level 10 wizard and he has decided to open a magical item shop , this ark will revolve around setting up the shop and getting established , the struggle with keeping the shop stocked and continuing with current magical research , weather to make a few unique and complex magical items for the shop or lots of bog standard stuff as well as competing with other magical stores along with keeping the store safe from thieves

in another later ark
The MC is level 15 and becomes a court wizard both for the connections he needs to secure access to exotic lore and regents and the massive pay , the MC must now deal with court intrigue , protect the interests of his lord , take care of his own growth , deal with various magical tasks or problems his patron assigns him (basically your playing an advisor like in BonyM's divided loyalties quest for this ark)
 
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I would love to see DPs take on a cyberpunk setting with magic. Cause magic is fairly tame in those kind of games.

The idea is getting me really excited.
 
Not everything needs engagement. Sometimes the best thing to do is focus on the narrative, or you'll snowball again with the same issues we had in ASWAH.
Engagement is something that is better treated as a bonus, IMHO. Unless you just write for affirmation of quality, in which case I think you should have some CURRATED opinions, I.E dedicated Betas who specifically comb through everything and give a detailed breakdown of your work, since that's actually productive and might help you shift over from "writing for critique / response" and become more "writing for fun".

Because that sounds exhausting, and generally speaking even fanfiction won't have constant engagement unless things are actually happening, which means you have to put more energy into advancing the plot or generating new conflict.

Unless you're a SoL writer, in which case whatever engagement you get is never guaranteed, just like something meaningful occurring in the span of ten pages isn't guaranteed either. :V
 
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