- Location
- Germany
That was indeed the plan, minimizing the amount of twice-done work.
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
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- Tags
- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
- Location
- Germany
The tables are fine or should I send you the JSON?
[X] Azel
- Location
- Germany
| Unit Name: | Westeros Armsmen | Imperial Legion | Imperial Legion (with Mages and Imperial Steel) | Wyvern Squad | Manticore Squad | Sahaguin Army |
| Readiness | 60 | 80 | 80 | 60 | 60 | 60 |
| Offense Physical: | 3 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 4 |
| Offense Mental: | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 1 |
| Offense Death: | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Defence Physical: | 3 | 5 | 6 | 10 | 11 | 3 |
| Defence Mental: | 1 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 2 |
| Defence Death: | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 1 |
| Mobility: | 4 | 5 | 5 | 11 | 11 | 5 |
| Morale: | 5 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 6 |
| Ranged Options: | Physical 2 | Physical 3 | Physical 4, Mental 2, Death 2 | Physical 5 | Physical 7 | Physical 2, Mental 1 |
| Long Ranged Attacks: | 0 | 0 | 0 | Physical 5 (Bombs and Beetles for 2 strikes only) | Physical 7 | 0 |
| Special Notes: | Physical Defences of Incorporeal units is treated 2 catagories lower | Mobility +2 in Water, +1 Physical Offence and Defence and Morale after 2 rounds in melee due to spreading bloodrage |
@Azel @DragonParadox
So, basically I'd use Long Ranged Attack not as a different attack-value here, but as a distinct ability.
If the Wyverns attack using only their long-ranged attacks they are not getting attacked by anything without long-ranged abilities (or specific circumstances like ghosts hiding in a place they will fly through).
If they want to keep attacking after shooting their load, by using their regular launchers, they have to get in regular ranged-attack territory.
Manticores meanwhile can use their cannons with impunity.
- Location
- Germany
I can use the tables, some things will have to be adjusted anyway, particularly in the damage, or else there is too high a chance that an army breaks too quickly.
Edit: For example 10 damage from the Manticores would basically have a very realistic chance of shattering an army with one good roll.
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Looks accurate to me. The only limit of a wyvern attaching with long rage is amo, which is to say logistics. I'm not sure to what degree we can put in there with the new simplified economy that is mostly just APs. I think we can just handle that narratively.
- Location
- Germany
Azel was nice enough to put numbers on the bomb-bays, so I'm assuming after emptying those they'll have to land and resupply or fight on without bombs, so either way it's limited to X attacks per battle.
They are definitly fast enough to resupply at the nearest base before the next battle, as long as we don't have an army stranded in Hell or something like that.
Edit: Most of them have 4 Beetle-Bombs on the wings and a cargobay for 4 more.
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- Location
- Germany
A full wing of Wyverns is 16 units, firing 2 cannons each with HE ammo or dropping a literal ton of bombs.
That is well within the territory where a massed infantry army sustains enough damage to force a retreat. Reminder here that 2-3% losses is where most armies start to break with 5-10% being apocalyptic disasters.
Either logistics should be assumed to be handled when building a unit, or you will need to define asupply limit and supply demands. That is, one global one, as moving supplies to our units is trivial.
Beetle Bombs are for precision attacks though. Against massed armies, you would use simple gravity bombs and kinetic impactors (google Lazy Dog) while keeping the 4 Beetle Bombs on the hull in reserve for hostile aerial assets or artillery.
- Location
- Germany
Kay, but that still limits them to a certain number of strikes before having to be resupplied, so the mechanical effect can stay?
I guess so, but that can end battles even against supposedly peer-powers or greater (Devil, Efreeti, etc) before the first clash.
I'm trying to look at the desired results here and I don't really think we want to make infantry completly obsolete?
- Location
- Germany
Yeah. I just wanted to point out that they have much more than 8 explosives when deploying against armies.
Unless you want to massively bend the logic of the world to enforce infantry armies, then they are to a large degree. I mean, you are one of the people who often argued that a Pit Fiend can solo an army.
Infantry formations can only survive if they have countermeasures (anti-air capabilities of their own) or the battlefield itself wirks against long-range engagements (PoE or underwater engagements).
The big advantage of pure Infantry is that they are dirt cheap and can suppress revolts, so they are good for doing Imperialism by stomping on minor powers. Against peer powers, they are only useful as ablative armor.
I mean, look at modern US and Chinese doctrine. That's where we are heading due to the properties of the forces available. Infantry is no deciding factor in wars between powers that have easy and reliable access to strategic assets and WMDs.
No, that would be an issue with the system. There should be some capacity of armies with high magic contingents to just get a long range attack if they are under bombardment for long enough, whether that be artifice or ritual or war beasts. Infantry battles are to a degree good not just for world-building reasons, but just because they are cool to write. At the end of the day this is a narrative and that is easier to write when there are battles to be had and not just 'bombs away, get me more of that'. Long range combat has its place and it should be absolutely be devastating when used right, but it should not be the end all and be all of war.
Or that is another way to put it yeah. We need to get all the peer powers some anti-long range capacity and attach it to the main body of the armies. Basically we cannot have Wyverns solo Baator like they could the armies of Westeros.
- Location
- Germany
So now you have some ritualists mucking around while 99% of that infantry army does nothing except getting blown up.
I mean, replace the Wyvern squadron with a Pit Fiend and you have the same exact issue. Infantry armies are worthless against highly mobile assets that can do massive damage.
If you force infantry engagements, we are back to adventuring being the be-all end-all over politics by narrative fiat.
That is really not the intent here, as I said above I would prefer combined arms battles rather than just having all the real fighting be done by wyverns and other long range assets, so the devils get their Pit Fiends and the Imperium gets its magi-tech ships and if any of those are unopposed it sucks to be in the infantry but so long as aerial supremacy contested there is a place for infantry combat. Ironically I think making the fights long range only is the adventurer paradigm more with Wyverns and Manticores standing in for the adventurers.
- Location
- Germany
I still do, but it's easier to find a hero or monster that can battle a Pit Fiend than one that can hit a long-ranger fighter jet.
Even regular artillery has relativly easy workarounds due to being a low-mobility unit.
Then we'll have to change the system a bit more, because just adding counter-offensive leaves things a bit too deadly, at bit too likely to be over in a single roll, for my taste.
Some units can actually defend against long-ranged attacks and I think that's what is needed to get relativly engaging battles despite the presence of artillery or Manticores.
Like, mid-ranking Devils can mass-teleport out of the way, Shaitans can sink into the ground within a second if they have to, those units have decent defences against long-ranged.
But most regular armies don't and I can't think of easy ways to provide them, aside from the shields from Phantom Menace being an easily available warding.
- Location
- Germany
@DragonParadox, @Artemis1992
The more I think about it, the more I believe that WW1 style battles would still be viable. Infantry defending heavily fortfied bunker installations with anti-air capabilities, being attacked by Gate-ing infantry that immediately digs in against the defenders AoE attacks.
Pretty ugly meatgrinders in which the mobile assets of the attacker are stymied by the fortress of the defenders, while the attackers would bleed badly until they can dig in.
It would help to explain eternal stalemates as defence is much easier than offence, the latter of which would have horrific death tolls.
The more I think about it, the more I believe that WW1 style battles would still be viable. Infantry defending heavily fortfied bunker installations with anti-air capabilities, being attacked by Gate-ing infantry that immediately digs in against the defenders AoE attacks.
Pretty ugly meatgrinders in which the mobile assets of the attacker are stymied by the fortress of the defenders, while the attackers would bleed badly until they can dig in.
It would help to explain eternal stalemates as defence is much easier than offence, the latter of which would have horrific death tolls.
That sounds good and would fit the meat-grinder of the Blood War really well so less the dramatic wars of maneuver you would see in some parts of WWII and more WWI as you said.
- Location
- United Kingdom
[X] Azel
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
Don't suppose anyone here has more examples of British people being depicted around specifically stereotypes, in modern (2016-now) media?
Anything from a talk show, to an advert, to an article - long as it is being stereotypical in some way, and from an english-speaking source.
Am still grad thesis'ing, yes.
Anything from a talk show, to an advert, to an article - long as it is being stereotypical in some way, and from an english-speaking source.
Am still grad thesis'ing, yes.
- Location
- Texas
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Azel
- Location
- Germany
Stupid idea maybe,but there's lots of that in Simpsons.
Unfortunatly I don't know about the seasons in the 2010ths
Vote closed.
Update in beta.
- Location
- Germany
Okay then, let's get started on the conversion:
Legion Infantry:
Just waht it says, basic legionaires, crossbowmen, officers, a small part of Assault Troopers.
Legion Cavalry:
Our regular cavalry.
Dothraki Auxilaries:
Rhango's horde basically, about as good at fighting as the legion, but still slightly less disciplined.
Has horse archers unlike our regulars, so he gets some range.
Praetori Battlalion:
Our armored and enhanced elites, swinging oversized flaming swords like anime-protagonists and are a lot tougher than humans have any right to be.
Still, they'll shine brightest with all their attachments.
Black Knights:
Our mass-produced Undead, controlled by Necrotic Molds (who provide the Death and Mental attacks, since the corpses don't have much in that area.
No fear of death and perfect coordination between the Molds means they can't be broken, only be destroyed or deliberatly retreat to preserve them.
Heavy Undead:
These are Black Brutes and other fleshforged and raised monstrosities, puppeted by Bloodclot Molds which gives them some serious sorcery in addition to their impressive physical strenght.
Wyvern:
Immensly fast fighter-bombers that can drop their load on the enemy and then have to decide between sticking around to fight with their launchers or fly home to resupply.
Manticores:
Heavier fighters with added cannons to allow for a continous long-ranged bombardment.
And the Attachment. These values are added to applicable units:
Imperial Steel:
Magical and Ghost-Touch weapons for everyone! These can not be added to Praetorians, as those have them by default.
Legion Banners:
PfE for everyone and some tireless marching as well.
Scholarium Casters:
A bunch of mages in the right place at the right time.
Darkenbeast Company:
Slow but strong flyers that can drop bombs or engage in direct combat.
Siege Company:
Artillery, for now still regular horse-drawn weapons with regular or alchemical payloads.
Warstriders:
A group of heavily armed constructs bearing siege weaponry, flamethrowers and steam cannons.
Air Transports:
A mix of Pegasus and Griphon class aerial transports allowing the unit to repidly move by air.
Power Armor:
An animated suit of armor that protects the wearer from a wide array of attacks and enhances his strength.
I hope that by keeping the tables to singular factions this whole thing remains a bit easier to look at than Azel's tables looked by the end of it.
If you see any issues with please speak up.
| Unit Name: | Imperial Legion Infantry | Imperial Legion Cavalry | Dothraki Auxilaries | Praetori Battalion | Black Knights | Heavy Undead | Wyvern Squad | Manticore Squad |
| Readiness | 80 | 80 | 60 | 40 | 80 | 100 | 60 | 60 |
| Offense Physical: | 5 | 5 | 5 | 7 | 4 | 7 | 5 | 5 |
| Offense Mental: | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 |
| Offense Death: | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 3 | 0 | 0 |
| Defence Physical: | 5 | 5 | 5 | 7 | 7 | 8 | 10 | 11 |
| Defence Mental: | 3 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 10 | 10 | 4 | 4 |
| Defence Death: | 1 | 1 | 1 | 4 | 10 | 10 | 2 | 2 |
| Mobility: | 5 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 11 | 11 |
| Morale: | 6 | 6 | 5 | 8 | No | No | 7 | 7 |
| Ranged Options: | Physical 3 | 0 | Physical 3 | Physical 4 | Death 2 | Death 3 Mental 1 | Physical 5 | Physical 8 |
| Long Ranged Attacks: | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Physical 5 (Bombs and Beetles for 2 strikes only) | Physical 8 |
| Special Notes: | Treat the Physical Defense of incorporeal foes as 2 tiers lower |
Legion Infantry:
Just waht it says, basic legionaires, crossbowmen, officers, a small part of Assault Troopers.
Legion Cavalry:
Our regular cavalry.
Dothraki Auxilaries:
Rhango's horde basically, about as good at fighting as the legion, but still slightly less disciplined.
Has horse archers unlike our regulars, so he gets some range.
Praetori Battlalion:
Our armored and enhanced elites, swinging oversized flaming swords like anime-protagonists and are a lot tougher than humans have any right to be.
Still, they'll shine brightest with all their attachments.
Black Knights:
Our mass-produced Undead, controlled by Necrotic Molds (who provide the Death and Mental attacks, since the corpses don't have much in that area.
No fear of death and perfect coordination between the Molds means they can't be broken, only be destroyed or deliberatly retreat to preserve them.
Heavy Undead:
These are Black Brutes and other fleshforged and raised monstrosities, puppeted by Bloodclot Molds which gives them some serious sorcery in addition to their impressive physical strenght.
Wyvern:
Immensly fast fighter-bombers that can drop their load on the enemy and then have to decide between sticking around to fight with their launchers or fly home to resupply.
Manticores:
Heavier fighters with added cannons to allow for a continous long-ranged bombardment.
And the Attachment. These values are added to applicable units:
| Attachment Name: | Imperial Steel Weapons | Legion Banners | Scholarium Casters | Darkenbeast Company | Siege Company | Warstriders | Air Transport | Power Armor |
| Readiness | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | +10 | +10 | +20 |
| Offense Physical: | +1 | 0 | +1 | +2 | 0 | +1 | 0 | +2 |
| Offense Mental: | 0 | 0 | +1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Offense Death: | 0 | 0 | +1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Defence Physical: | 0 | 0 | 0 | +1 | 0 | +1 | +1 | +2 |
| Defence Mental: | 0 | +1 | +1 | 0 | 0 | +1 | 0 | 0 |
| Defence Death: | 1 | 0 | +1 | 0 | 0 | +1 | +1 | +1 |
| Mobility: | 0 | +1 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 0 | +4 | -1 |
| Morale: | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | +1 | |
| Ranged Options: | 0 | 0 | Add +1 to all existing or a strenght 2 attack for all types if none exist | Physical +3 (or a new strenght 4 attack if there is no regular attack here) | Physical +2 (or a new strenght 3 attack if there is no regular attack here) | Physical +2 (or a new strenght 3 attack if there is no regular attack here) | Physical +1 | 0 |
| Long Ranged Attacks: | 0 | 0 | 0 | +1 | +1 | +3 | 0 | 0 |
| Special Notes: | Treat the Physical Defense of incorporeal foes as 2 tiers lower | Adds +2 Additional defence against Long Ranged Attacks | ||||||
| Applicable: | Legion Infantry, Legion Cavalry, Black Knights, Heavy Undead | Legion Infantry, Legion Cavalry | Legion Infantry, Legion Cavalry, Praetori | Legion Infantry, Legion Cavalry, | Legion Infantry, Legion Cavalry | Legion Infantry, Praetori | Praetori | Praetori |
Imperial Steel:
Magical and Ghost-Touch weapons for everyone! These can not be added to Praetorians, as those have them by default.
Legion Banners:
PfE for everyone and some tireless marching as well.
Scholarium Casters:
A bunch of mages in the right place at the right time.
Darkenbeast Company:
Slow but strong flyers that can drop bombs or engage in direct combat.
Siege Company:
Artillery, for now still regular horse-drawn weapons with regular or alchemical payloads.
Warstriders:
A group of heavily armed constructs bearing siege weaponry, flamethrowers and steam cannons.
Air Transports:
A mix of Pegasus and Griphon class aerial transports allowing the unit to repidly move by air.
Power Armor:
An animated suit of armor that protects the wearer from a wide array of attacks and enhances his strength.
If you see any issues with please speak up.
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Part MMMDCCLXXII: Lessons Learned Late
Lessons Learned Late
Eighteenth Day of the Fifth Month 294 AC
"The Imperium is the legal successor to the state of the Iron Throne, which has been dissolved by order of the rightful sovereign of said entity. The deeds recounted here were illegal under custom and law of the Iron Throne, so it falls on the Imperium to persecute those who broke them," you reply dryly. "For an example of how absurd clinging to the specificity of this instance is, let us for a moment consider the following. A man walks into a keep in Westeros or a burgher's house or a crofter's cottage, there is a fight and the stranger kills all within by magic. If upon this murderer being caught he should claim that his deeds could not be murder for behold there was no provision for killing by sorcery than any judge of good will shall hold him in rightful contempt. Why then should we count slavery any different because the scars it leaves are less obvious than a body on the ground?"
Slowly your gaze moved above the head of the accused and to the members of the Curia and the much wider audience beyond the mirror. "The argument Lord Lannister is making, if argument it could be called, is that slavery and murder were both legal in the Seven Kingdoms, if only the one who enacted it was 'clever' enough to choose the right weapon for their dark deeds." You pause again and return your gaze to the now quietly seething Tywin Lannister. You had after all just compared him to a common criminal. A pity for him you have no intention of stopping until the argument was driven well home. "That is a stance that most legal scholars would likely consider amusing until you tell them that you are willing to stake your life on this nonsense." Your smile is cold and cold is your heart as you look down upon the accused. Funny, you had always imagined your anger would run hot this day, but the only thing you feel now is the simple desire to see this and to wring from the moment as much use as your burgeoning realm can gain.
There is much to be learned from the tale of Tywin Lannister and there is yet more to be learned from that of Gerion his brother and Lanna his goodsister, for they did not start on their path with thoughts of tyranny and domination, but found for them justifications along the way. Fight fire with fire and soon all is ash...
You cannot bring either of them into the chamber of the Curia. Even with you, Malarys and Garin all in attendance they might still try something and a fight, even one won, would send entirely the wrong message, and as for the means you could give to ensure they cannot pose a threat, well many of them are going to look like torture and the most oft used would render them unable to speak in their own defense.
So instead you had arranged for two small mirrors to be rolled in, each projecting the likeness of one of the two from secure holding cells for the remainder of the trial. There can be no doubt on the matter of slavery once you had heard testimonials from some of the Golden Shields who had been bound with geas and ritual. One of them does try to spit at Tywin, which while understandable is disruption and more than a bit distracting from the fact that poor Malarys is left having to explain the arcane 'organization' of the Westerlander mages in full court. Here too some of the lords are allowed to say their peace and to show that far beyond 'simply' enforcing the oaths of bannerman and banner lord the magics were used for the enrichment of House Lannister. Moreover binding spells were used to control those beyond even the borders of the Westerlands, hinting that were things allow to flow in the same channel for long many more of the lords and ladies of the Seven Kingdoms would find themselves bound...
"I would like..." a voice breaks into the middle of one of Malarys presentations. It is Lanna. "I would like to change my plea to guilty. There is in truth no point arguing this now, but to try to belittle the pain and suffering we have caused and thus multiply it. I lost my way and allowed my magic to be abused in the very ways I once vowed I would not countenance. Nothing is worth that, not should the seas rise up filled with foul brood or the ice grind us all down, or the hells open to devour us. I ask the court only that they look with mercy upon my husband..."
"Six times," Gerion breaks in, shouts almost. "Six times I convinced you to stick with the heartless... well, I shall not call him a bastard because it would be an insult to our mother's virtue. We should have sailed the fuck way and not looked back. No, if you are guilty of this it is not any more than me. I ask of the throne only that Leon, Leila and Joy not have to live under the shadow of our deeds as much as it can be done. Let it end with us." He looks you right in the eye and his distant gaze is clear as the sea on a sunny day. "May you have better fortune than us navigating these hurdles, Your Majesty."
What (if anything) do you reply?
[] Write in
OOC: When faced with a mountain of evidence some people are going to just plead guilty in the hopes of saving if not their legacy then at least some of their final moments upon the earth. Still, a Lannister is still a Lannister to the end, pride and all hence Gerion's advice at the end.
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