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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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DragonParadox said:
OOC: Well Iziku has not been a minister-presumptive for 24 hours and there is already a motion to question him in the Curia, and they are likely to ask for details of what a harvester devil did in the service of Mammon. Of course there is no way to know yet if they will get the votes.
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Still, the system works! Get people to start voting and talking!
DragonParadox said:
For anyone wondering the above does not have the word 'look' so many times just to be annoying, it is to show that Waymar is not the most polished for speakers, so I try to give him a more natural voice especially when he is caught unaware.
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It fits, Waymar not best speaker as we know. Not terrible but not great, and worse when dealing with family.
 
DragonParadox said:
OOC: Well Iziku has not been a minister-presumptive for 24 hours and there is already a motion to question him in the Curia, and they are likely to ask for details of what a harvester devil did in the service of Mammon. Of course there is no way to know yet if they will get the votes.
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I mean, that's easy enough to answer.

It's literally the same thing he's going to be doing now except he's gathering something less annoying. Gold at the very least doesn't yammer on and on about how "this is a mistake" or "It was for all the right reasons" or "I swear the orphanage was just like that when I got there and summoned the Shoggoth."

Multiply that by literal eons and our job for him sounds like a goddamn no show Mob Job.
 
Crake said:
Atrocious, presumably. Hell can't seem to do anything fairly. They'll follow through on everything promised, but they will arrange things in their favor to the hilt, and explicitly and cruelly out of your favor in the long run.
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High enough tax rates promote evasion. That's not how LE states are run, that's what CE stares like mine do.

LE tax codes manage to never skin the sheep, because sanctions are way worse than the high, but not impossible to pay rates.
 
Tomcost said:
High enough tax rates promote evasion. That's not how LE states are run, that's what CE stares like mine do.

LE tax codes manage to never skin the sheep, because sanctions are way worse than the high, but not impossible to pay rates.
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I would agree, and I'm sure even Asmodeus would agree.

But this is Mammon.

Skinning the sheep is what he does. And picking the gristle from between his teeth after all is said and done.
 
@DragonParadox say how far and wide does the news of our newly anointed Minister has reached? Does it only come to the ears of Nobles and high-ranking Goverment Officials or does anyone and their mothers now know that there's a Devil in charge (Imperium-wide).
Crake said:
I would agree, and I'm sure even Asmodeus would agree.

But this is Mammon.

Skinning the sheep is what he does. And picking the gristle from between his teeth after all is said and done.
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His demotion couldn't come fast enough.
 
Honestly, just point at the fact that we have Celestials in our service and that they haven't revolted against our decisions. That should shut them up or at least get them thinking.
 
Jack vile Ripper said:
@DragonParadox say how far and wide does the news of our newly anointed Minister has reached? Does it only come to the ears of Nobles and high-ranking Goverment Officials or does anyone and their mothers now know that there's a Devil in charge (Imperium-wide).


His demotion couldn't come fast enough.
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Ministers are high positions to everyone will be interested, thus it is better to get it in the Times and have your story be ahead of the rumors.
 
Evaunit02mark1 said:
I'm not sure if that says more about us or the effectiveness of the previous administration.
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Little of column A, a lot of column B.

Waymar isn't happy or light hearted about the notion that devils are basically getting off "scot free" in the sheer scale of their misdeeds compared to their current listed good, but there's not a lot of better things that can be done than providing an alternative to serving Baator.

To anyone without a small reptile brain capable of processing that much, it is obviously way better for Viserys to flip as many Outsiders as possible to help keep back all the other horrors who can't ever be flipped no matter what we do.

At least when the alternative is to place Viserys into the habit of soul-killing anyone capable of having their soulfire eventually being processed by Baator (or another enemy) into a willing foot soldier or metaphysical infrastructure for grinding down their foes beneath their iron tread. Telling your ruler you want them to be less merciful never tends to go well. Convincing him he can be as merciful as he wants so long as he's prejudiced in their favor sometimes works out just fine, on the other hand, but it's unlikely to pose a convincing argument to Viserys "free the slaves and raise new institutions where everyone can rise above themselves" Targaryen.
 
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DragonParadox said:
OOC: Well Iziku has not been a minister-presumptive for 24 hours and there is already a motion to question him in the Curia, and they are likely to ask for details of what a harvester devil did in the service of Mammon. Of course there is no way to know yet if they will get the votes.
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It'll be interesting to here about the thousands of years of horrific things it's done detailed to the Curia that Viserys is willing to forgive and give a second chance despite them. Then they'll hear the crimes and reasoning of Lanna and Gerion, that we'll murder them for, and the entire Curia will wonder if this is the insanity of the Targ Bloodline acting up.
 
Giving an devil such an post was always going to cause this and for good reasons. It's an utterly horrible PR for one. Trying to give devil such high post should be done after people slowly become normalized to the idea of devils serving the King and an propaganda campaign.

Though, I doubt we will face much consequences in the end, we rarely do:V.
 
DkArthas said:
Giving an devil such an post was always going to cause this and for good reasons. It's an utterly horrible PR for one. Trying to give devil such high post should be done after people slowly become normalized to the idea of devils serving the King and an propaganda campaign.

Though, I doubt we will face much consequences in the end, we rarely do:V.
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The consequences are immediate, apparent and constant. Everyone is going to be hostile to Iziku. And everyone is going to assume Imperial policies are driven more by the nature of those carrying them out rather than their inherent nature being decided upon by Viserys and the counsel of people from multiple states.

The office is like a golden goose and an albatross around our necks like this. We will always receive our taxes, but people will wonder if they aren't losing more than they 'deserve'. Which is obviously driven by racism and fear.
 
DragonParadox said:
Devil in the Details ​

Eight Day of the Fifth Month 294 AC

The copy of the Imperial Times slammed onto the table with the soft thump of paper on wood, somehow heavier in the ear than if it had been an axe falling. "Is this true?" Bronze Yohn did not raise his voice, he did not need to.

Waymar knew well his father's moods and this was not a pleasant one. Not that he had expected 'pleasant' when asked for a meeting at a time Ysi was not at home, but still it rankled him more than he would say aloud to be called to question like this, as though he were yet a boy, and not even for something that was his fault to begin with, if fault you could call it.

"All the ministerial appointments reported are accurate, yes. It would be rather a waste of ink if they were not," he could not help but add. He sighed. "I know you are aware of how the baatezu who serve the crown came to be so. You have had erinyes serving at Runestone and keeping you and mother safe. Why this should trouble you like..." like you were some hick from the back end of the Riverlands or the Reach, he thought but did not say, but his father read it in his tone just the same.

"They are warriors," the lord of Runestone cut his son off. "A warrior might be called on to turn his sword on an unjust lord and keep some measure of honor, but not this, this, merchant of souls."

"By the Trees, father, what do you think furies did all those long ages, fought only demons, hunted only the rightfully damned?" The younger knight sprang to his feet restlessly, though he did not quite begin to pace. 'It makes you looks either indecisive or aggressive depending on which way you go', Tyene had said, and he trusted her judgement. Taking his father's silence for a reply, he continued, "No one is rightfully damned father, that is the point, not even devils deserve Hell. That is the entire point. It applies to anyone willing and able to swear a true oath before the throne. If you want in then you are in, and if you have the skills you can have the job, it is that simple."

"So what then? There is no crime and no evil an oath before the crown will not absolve?" Lord Royce asked. He sounded more pleading than upset now.

"Certainly there are, the ones that render one untrustworthy, the list of which is too long and too complex to recount here," Waymar ran his hand through his hair, another thing he knew he really should not be doing, but damn it this was not what he was supposed to be doing at this hour of the morning. "Look, there is nothing that says you are obliged to invite Iziku to feasts, or even cross paths with him outside the Curia. He is an accountant, in charge of other accountants, most of which are not devils and whose jobs are so bloody boring I for one would count it torture to be stuck with them."

The older lord sighed in turn, his frustration no less, though he kept his in check better. "You do not know how powerful or how cruel those who gather taxes can be..."

"When the tax code has enough holes in it to fly a dragon through," Waymar finished. "Look, there are rules and he is a devil, he is going to follow the rules. I trust the tax code to hold up well even with a devil in charge." I trust Viserys, even in the company of devils, the words really amounted to, and he had decided that long before there had been any ministries. By the same token, he could not expect the same sort of trust from his father, oath or no. "Look, if you want to check on how the minister of taxation is doing his job you can call him to give an accounting in the Curia over any deed or act. He is not going to be hawking souls like its the Bazaar of a Thousand Sins, he is just there to make sure that the treasury gets its due and that beings as skilled as him in matters of finance, but who are very much not friends of the Imperium, do not subvert the whole system."

For a long moment the old lord looked him up and down, searching for something, though Waymar knew not what. "My heart is not light in this matter, but then it is not the place of any lord to go through life wholly lighthearted, I suppose."

They did not part then, but spoke instead of lighter matters. Of Ysilla's studies and her most recent project, of the Order of the Griffon and other matters great and small, and while their parting was not without lingering worries unspoken, it was not near so troubled as their greeting.

OOC: Well Iziku has not been a minister-presumptive for 24 hours and there is already a motion to question him in the Curia, and they are likely to ask for details of what a harvester devil did in the service of Mammon. Of course there is no way to know yet if they will get the votes.
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Made some additional edits to the chapter, DP.
 
lancelot said:
It'll be interesting to here about the thousands of years of horrific things it's done detailed to the Curia that Viserys is willing to forgive and give a second chance despite them. Then they'll hear the crimes and reasoning of Lanna and Gerion, that we'll murder them for, and the entire Curia will wonder if this is the insanity of the Targ Bloodline acting up.
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The curia will not really have time for a thousand years of accounts, and the devil is likely to be a lot better at all things social than the lords questioning him, but yeah it is a bit of a tangle. So it goes with politics.
 
Eh, the PR optics on this one aren't great, but that was expected. People will get over it soon enough and find something else to be outraged about.

Just wait until we start the re-apportionment of Westeros... 🧐
 
DragonParadox said:
The curia will not really have time for a thousand years of accounts, and the devil is likely to be a lot better at all things social than the lords questioning him, but yeah it is a bit of a tangle. So it goes with politics.
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I really want to see Tyrion speak up in his all but adopted parents defense, and use this, and the many other facts to force Viserys into a corner of looking like a shadow of his father, or give Lanna and Gerion as much of a chance of redemption of devils and demons get in the Empire.
 
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lancelot said:
I really want to see Tyrion speak up in his all but adopted parents defense, and use this, and the many other facts to force Viserys into a corner of looking like a shadow of his father, or give Lanna and Gerion as much of a chance of redemption of devils and demons get in the Empire.
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Tyrion will have an interesting time trying to defend his family considering that Tywin is being tried for Regicide and attempting to wipe out the royal family. A crime which in our world got families erased from the history books.
 
I do have to wonder if this will create a chink wherein the malcontents will have easier access to punchy rhetoric about how Viserys is just as bad as the devil cheating them out of their hard earned coin.

That's if you want to fire up the mob though. The more politically and financially inclined can obviously reason out that the way taxes work out are much more favorable to those earning less, and only disfavorable to those earning gold hand over fucking fist, but the problem, as it has ever been, is with those who earn lots of gold not wanting to be parted with it.

Which I suppose might be a feature, rather than a detriment, in some ways. At the very least, no Citizens United and we can just arrest anyone who we feel has been accepting bribes without the shield of corporate lobbying getting in the way.
 
Crake said:
The consequences are immediate, apparent and constant. Everyone is going to be hostile to Iziku. And everyone is going to assume Imperial policies are driven more by the nature of those carrying them out rather than their inherent nature being decided upon by Viserys and the counsel of people from multiple states.

The office is like a golden goose and an albatross around our necks like this. We will always receive our taxes, but people will wonder if they aren't losing more than they 'deserve'. Which is obviously driven by racism and fear.
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To be fair tho, no one was going to like the tax office no matter who we put in charge. People will always think they're getting cheated no matter what the tax laws actually are.

At least this way we can get our due.

Remember nothing in the imperium is constant except taxes.
 
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