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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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@Artemis1992, here are the results:

NameIDDescriptionSpeedManeuverabilityReadinessOrganizationAttack_PhysicalAttack_DeathAttack_PsychicDefense_PhysicalDefense_DeathDefense_Psychic
Basic LegionLegionAn Imperial Legion36080605000,200,3
LegionLegion_ISAn Imperial Legion equipped with Imperial Steel weapons.36080606000,20,10,3
Advanced LegionLegion_IS_CasterAn Imperial Legion equipped with Imperial Steel weapons and a integrated force of battlemages.36080607110,30,20,4
Shambling UndeadUndead_BasicA force of undead consisting mostly of zombies, skeletons and a few minor, intelligent undead such as wraiths that lead the mob.230100203300,50,90,9
SkumSkumSkum23060303010,200
SahuaginSahuaginSahuagin35060404010,30,10,1
IllithidIllithidA large number of Illithid with fleshforged bodyguards, such as highly advanced Sahuagin, Chuuls or similar.38030803160,20,40,8
Lesser Devil HostDevil_Host_LesserLow-tier devils driven before a smaller number of Legion and Bearded Devils, with a few Bone Devils mixed in as commanders.33090403110,60,10,8
Devil HostDevil_HostA formation of Blood Reavers, Furies and maybe the occasional Gelugon and Cornugon as officers.-110040806110,70,50,5
Greater Devil HostDevil_Host_GreaterA formation mostly of Barbazu and Merregon, all of which are highly disciplined and can teleport (though very limited in the of Merregons), meaning high maneuverability and organisation. Attack comes from hitting with superhuman strenght and having a few blocks of devils with Hellfire Crossbows.38070705110,60,20,4

1 vs 1LegionLegion_ISLegion_IS_CasterUndead_BasicSkumSahuaginIllithidDevil_Host_LesserDevil_HostDevil_Host_Greater
Legion0-0,1-0,280,330,330,11-0,42-0,02-0,42-0,22
Legion_IS0,10-0,150,330,330,23-0,420,08-0,29-0,15
Legion_IS_Caster0,280,1500,330,340,39-0,130,33-0,12-0,09
Undead_Basic-0,33-0,33-0,3300,18-0,03-0,330,01-0,28-0,31
Skum-0,33-0,33-0,34-0,180-0,16-0,1-0,2-0,2-0,25
Sahuagin-0,11-0,23-0,390,030,160-0,35-0,11-0,37-0,39
Illithid0,420,420,130,330,10,3500,33-0,090,11
Devil_Host_Lesser0,02-0,08-0,33-0,010,20,11-0,330-0,33-0,33
Devil_Host0,420,290,120,280,20,370,090,3300,09
Devil_Host_Greater0,220,150,090,310,250,39-0,110,33-0,090

5 vs 5LegionLegion_ISLegion_IS_CasterUndead_BasicSkumSahuaginIllithidDevil_Host_LesserDevil_HostDevil_Host_Greater
Legion0-0,08-0,180,120,140,08-0,23-0,05-0,23-0,15
Legion_IS0,080-0,110,120,150,13-0,220,06-0,18-0,11
Legion_IS_Caster0,180,1100,120,160,2-0,10,13-0,1-0,08
Undead_Basic-0,12-0,12-0,1200,1-0,07-0,12-0,02-0,12-0,12
Skum-0,14-0,15-0,16-0,10-0,11-0,18-0,12-0,16-0,16
Sahuagin-0,08-0,13-0,20,070,110-0,21-0,09-0,2-0,2
Illithid0,230,220,10,120,180,2100,13-0,080,09
Devil_Host_Lesser0,05-0,06-0,130,020,120,09-0,130-0,13-0,13
Devil_Host0,230,180,10,120,160,20,080,1300,08
Devil_Host_Greater0,150,110,080,120,160,2-0,090,13-0,080

What's funny to me is to see that there is a limit for how fast you can kill something that shows with the basic undead and the Skum, who are getting completely creamed by everything except each other.
 
I've got to admit the idea of Undead and Lesser Devils just hitting each other forever with no clear results is pretty funny.
And realistic, without DR-piercing weapons they could hardly harm each other.

Though the test-table lacks the ability to show who would survive in the end.
After all some of these forces would be ground down pretty hard, while others could manage an ordered retreat.
 
Artemis1992 said:
I've got to admit the idea of Undead and Lesser Devils just hitting each other forever with no clear results is pretty funny.
And realistic, without DR-piercing weapons they could hardly harm each other.
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Yeah, that's basically two tar pits trying to swallow each other and failing badly at it.
Artemis1992 said:
Though the test-table lacks the ability to show who would survive in the end.
After all some of these forces would be ground down pretty hard, while others could manage an ordered retreat.
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If you have a suggestion to improve the statistic, I'm all ears. I've settled on this value based on number of combat turns it took to resolve since it kinda covers everything, but you are right that "orderly retreat after 3 rounds" and "annihilation after 3 rounds" should probably not count the same.
 
Azel said:
If you have a suggestion to improve the statistic, I'm all ears. I've settled on this value based on number of combat turns it took to resolve since it kinda covers everything, but you are right that "orderly retreat after 3 rounds" and "annihilation after 3 rounds" should probably not count the same.
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Doesn't matter now, since these tables are just for show.
In your first posting with examples one could easily see when a group started retreating, so if DP can work from that it should be easy to show in the narrative and the results.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Doesn't matter now, since these tables are just for show.
In your first posting with examples one could easily see when a group started retreating, so if DP can work from that it should be easy to show in the narrative and the results.
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Yeah, the full detail battle reports don't have that issue anyway.

Thank you for making those units by the way.

Code: 
---------- Initial ----------

----- Active
-- Faction 1
1    Basic Legion            80    60    True
2    Basic Legion            80    60    True
3    Legion                  80    60    True
4    Legion                  80    60    True
5    Advanced Legion         80    60    True
-- Faction 2
6    Lesser Devil Host       90    40    True
7    Lesser Devil Host       90    40    True
8    Devil Host              40    80    True

----- Retreating

----- Destroyed


---------- Turn 1 ----------

----- Active
-- Faction 1
1    Basic Legion            80    60    True
2    Basic Legion            79,22    53,27    True
3    Legion                  80    60    True
4    Legion                  80    53,38    True
5    Advanced Legion         80    60    True
-- Faction 2
6    Lesser Devil Host       88,76    32,44    True
7    Lesser Devil Host       89,22    36,47    True
8    Devil Host              40    80    True

----- Retreating

----- Destroyed


---------- Turn 2 ----------

----- Active
-- Faction 1
1    Basic Legion            80    60    True
2    Basic Legion            79,22    53,27    True
3    Legion                  80    56,6    True
4    Legion                  78,18    44,6    True
5    Advanced Legion         80    60    True
-- Faction 2
6    Lesser Devil Host       88,34    24,95    True
7    Lesser Devil Host       88,23    32,51    True
8    Devil Host              40    80    True

----- Retreating

----- Destroyed


---------- Turn 3 ----------

----- Active
-- Faction 1
1    Basic Legion            80    60    True
2    Basic Legion            79,22    53,27    True
3    Legion                  79,35    50,37    True
4    Legion                  74,46    40,88    True
5    Advanced Legion         80    60    True
-- Faction 2
6    Lesser Devil Host       86,83    17,13    True
7    Lesser Devil Host       87,74    28,53    True
8    Devil Host              40    80    True

----- Retreating

----- Destroyed


---------- Turn 4 ----------

----- Active
-- Faction 1
1    Basic Legion            80    60    True
2    Basic Legion            79,22    49,29    True
3    Legion                  79,35    50,37    True
4    Legion                  74,46    40,88    True
5    Advanced Legion         80    51,34    True
-- Faction 2
6    Lesser Devil Host       86,83    15,02    True
7    Lesser Devil Host       86,93    18,59    True
8    Devil Host              40    80    True

----- Retreating

----- Destroyed


---------- Turn 5 ----------

----- Active
-- Faction 1
1    Basic Legion            80    60    True
2    Basic Legion            79,22    45,33    True
3    Legion                  79,35    50,37    True
4    Legion                  74,46    37,02    True
5    Advanced Legion         79,37    45,69    True
-- Faction 2
6    Lesser Devil Host       85,83    13,52    True
7    Lesser Devil Host       85,17    9,7    True
8    Devil Host              40    80    True

----- Retreating

----- Destroyed


---------- Turn 6 ----------

----- Active
-- Faction 1
1    Basic Legion            78,98    57,61    True
2    Basic Legion            79,22    45,33    True
3    Legion                  79,35    50,37    True
4    Legion                  74,46    37,02    True
5    Advanced Legion         78,05    37,14    True
-- Faction 2
6    Lesser Devil Host       85,83    5,01    True
7    Lesser Devil Host       85,17    4,94    True
8    Devil Host              40    80    True

----- Retreating

----- Destroyed


---------- Turn 7 ----------

----- Active
-- Faction 1
1    Basic Legion            78,98    57,61    True
2    Basic Legion            77,42    43,53    True
3    Legion                  79,35    50,37    True
4    Legion                  71,48    32,56    True
5    Advanced Legion         78,05    34,07    True
-- Faction 2
6    Lesser Devil Host       85,6    2,98    True
7    Lesser Devil Host       78,19    0    False
8    Devil Host              40    80    True

----- Retreating

----- Destroyed


---------- Turn 8 ----------

----- Active
-- Faction 1
1    Basic Legion            78,98    50,01    True
2    Basic Legion            77,42    43,53    True
3    Legion                  79,35    50,37    True
4    Legion                  69,58    30,66    True
5    Advanced Legion         78,05    34,07    True
-- Faction 2
6    Lesser Devil Host       79,96    0    False
7    Lesser Devil Host       73,2    0    False
8    Devil Host              40    80    True

----- Retreating

----- Destroyed


---------- Turn 9 ----------

----- Active
-- Faction 1
1    Basic Legion            78,98    50,01    True
2    Basic Legion            77,42    43,53    True
3    Legion                  79,35    50,37    True
4    Legion                  68,05    24,55    True
5    Advanced Legion         78,05    34,07    True
-- Faction 2
8    Devil Host              40    80    True

----- Retreating
-- Faction 2
6    Lesser Devil Host       75,91    0    False
7    Lesser Devil Host       64,69    0    False

----- Destroyed


---------- Turn 10 ----------

----- Active
-- Faction 1
1    Basic Legion            78,98    50,01    True
2    Basic Legion            77,42    43,53    True
3    Legion                  77,11    45,14    True
4    Legion                  68,05    24,55    True
5    Advanced Legion         78,05    34,07    True
-- Faction 2 - In Retreat
8    Devil Host              38,76    73,15    True

----- Retreating
-- Faction 2
6    Lesser Devil Host       75,91    0    False
7    Lesser Devil Host       64,69    0    False

----- Destroyed


---------- Turn 11 ----------

----- Active
-- Faction 1
1    Basic Legion            78,98    50,01    True
2    Basic Legion            77,42    43,53    True
3    Legion                  77,11    45,14    True
4    Legion                  68,05    24,55    True
5    Advanced Legion         78,05    27,37    True

----- Retreating
-- Faction 2
6    Lesser Devil Host       75,91    0    False
7    Lesser Devil Host       64,69    0    False
8    Devil Host              37,77    65,83    True

----- Destroyed
 
At this point, protesting in our Empire is mostly useful to show strength against local foes. Remember, we still have local elections which can provide influence over some amount of public money. Even if you aren't embezzling, there are many obvious and technically legal ways to get power and influence from having a relative in charge of spending public funds (for building infrastructure, for providing food to the poor, for subsidizing the universities we set up, whatever).

Protesting Imperial policies is riskier, but not entirely pointless. What are the points of IRL protests, and how can they apply here?
  • Raising awareness of an issue (among locals, among local authorities, among non-local groups who can apply pressure and/or among the bosses of local authorities)
    • This absolutely can work in the Imperium. It hasn't come up yet, but there's absolutely no reason why it wouldn't (especially if it doesn't trip national security Divinations). Viserys does care about his PR among other polities (or among their leadership, at least) and unless you're protesting for something terrible, you could easily get sympathy from Djinn or whatever. He's also a bit of bleeding heart sometimes, and if there's some issue he hasn't heard of that a big protest brings to his attention, it'll probably be fixed or alleviated pretty soon.
  • Straight-up rioting. That's effectively a threat. Fix things, or we'll burn down your offices/homes, make you look extremely weak, and possibly lynch you if we catch you.
    • This is of very limited use (+ high risk) in the Imperium. You have basically no rights, so if you piss off supreme executive power you can just be killed or imprisoned at will. You can't easily overpower law enforcement, because even if you do smash the heavily outnumbered greycloaks they can call in high-level enchanters to nonlethally subdue entire crowds. And of course if your riot gets big enough to trip background Divination screenings, those spellcasters will be around and have the right spells prepared.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Straight-up rioting. That's effectively a threat. Fix things, or we'll burn down your offices/homes, make you look extremely weak, and possibly lynch you if we catch you
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that can't acutely work in a D&D setting as all it takes to end the riot is a guard equipped with a spell scroll of sleep to instantly and none lethally take everyone down and sleep is a first level spell so those scrolls would not be hard to acquire in bulk
 
mmgaballah said:
that can't acutely work in a D&D setting as all it takes to end the riot is a guard equipped with a spell scroll of sleep to instantly and none lethally take everyone down and sleep is a first level spell so those scrolls would not be hard to acquire in bulk
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Scrolls are expensive, and have low DCs. An average person has a a roughly 50/50 chance of resisting a basic sleep scroll, for example. Entangle might work better, I suppose, and that's a good enough reason to preserve the city's green spaces. My inner urban planner weeps to see roadside trees and bushes weaponised into instruments of state repression, but at least it's an incentive for them not to be replaced with more office space!

No, IMO the real deal are crowd-scale emotion-altering spells and/or mass nonlethal damage. And of course if things get bad enough to require a Companion's efforts, there's the ultimate riot suppressing spell : End To Strife.
 
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Been tinkering with combat width a bit while I'm waiting for my lunch to be done in the oven, since extremely high Maneuverability units were basically invulnerable as long as at least one other unit was on the field. That's fixed now.

Just wanted to show this since @Artemis1992, was right about the effects of a rout on the tables. By the current measure, a regular Legion is claimed to be more effective against Skum than an upgraded Legion. The regular one hits the Skum hard enough to rout them immediately, but not so hard that they can no longer make an orderly retreat. The better Legions completely shatter the Skums Org instead and take more turns to finish the battle as they completely obliterate them.

Fixing that now.
NameIDDescriptionSpeedManeuverabilityReadinessOrganizationAttack_PhysicalAttack_DeathAttack_PsychicDefense_PhysicalDefense_DeathDefense_Psychic
Basic LegionLegionAn Imperial Legion36080605000,200,3
LegionLegion_ISAn Imperial Legion equipped with Imperial Steel weapons.36080606000,20,10,3
Advanced LegionLegion_IS_CasterAn Imperial Legion equipped with Imperial Steel weapons and a integrated force of battlemages.36080607110,30,20,4
Shambling UndeadUndead_BasicA force of undead consisting mostly of zombies, skeletons and a few minor, intelligent undead such as wraiths that lead the mob.230100203300,50,90,9
SkumSkumSkum23060303010,200
SahuaginSahuaginSahuagin35060404010,30,10,1
IllithidIllithidA large number of Illithid with fleshforged bodyguards, such as highly advanced Sahuagin, Chuuls or similar.38030803160,20,40,8
Lesser Devil HostDevil_Host_LesserLow-tier devils driven before a smaller number of Legion and Bearded Devils, with a few Bone Devils mixed in as commanders.33090403110,60,10,8
Devil HostDevil_HostA formation mostly of Barbazu and Merregon, all of which are highly disciplined and can teleport (though very limited in the of Merregons), meaning high maneuverability and organisation. Attack comes from hitting with superhuman strenght and having a few blocks of devils with Hellfire Crossbows.38070705110,60,20,4
Greater Devil HostDevil_Host_GreaterA formation of Blood Reavers, Furies and maybe the occasional Gelugon and Cornugon as officers.-110040806120,70,50,5

1 vs 1LegionLegion_ISLegion_IS_CasterUndead_BasicSkumSahuaginIllithidDevil_Host_LesserDevil_HostDevil_Host_Greater
Legion0-0,1-0,330,20,50,12-0,5-0,06-0,2-0,33
Legion_IS0,10-0,20,20,20,17-0,50,08-0,12-0,33
Legion_IS_Caster0,330,200,250,330,33-0,120,5-0,1-0,17
Undead_Basic-0,2-0,2-0,2500,2-0,14-0,33-0,12-0,5-0,5
Skum-0,5-0,2-0,33-0,20-0,2-0,5-0,33-0,33-0,33
Sahuagin-0,12-0,17-0,330,140,20-0,5-0,14-0,5-0,5
Illithid0,50,50,120,330,50,500,50,12-0,1
Devil_Host_Lesser0,06-0,08-0,50,120,330,14-0,50-0,25-0,11
Devil_Host0,20,120,10,50,330,5-0,120,250-0,12
Devil_Host_Greater0,330,330,170,50,330,50,10,110,120

5 vs 5LegionLegion_ISLegion_IS_CasterUndead_BasicSkumSahuaginIllithidDevil_Host_LesserDevil_HostDevil_Host_Greater
Legion0-0,09-0,20,080,20,09-0,14-0,05-0,17-0,25
Legion_IS0,090-0,10,140,120,12-0,20,06-0,09-0,2
Legion_IS_Caster0,20,100,110,170,17-0,090,14-0,08-0,12
Undead_Basic-0,08-0,14-0,1100,09-0,08-0,17-0,07-0,12-0,2
Skum-0,2-0,12-0,17-0,090-0,09-0,2-0,11-0,17-0,17
Sahuagin-0,09-0,12-0,170,080,090-0,17-0,1-0,33-0,2
Illithid0,140,20,090,170,20,1700,120,08-0,08
Devil_Host_Lesser0,05-0,06-0,140,070,110,1-0,120-0,12-0,11
Devil_Host0,170,090,080,120,170,33-0,080,120-0,09
Devil_Host_Greater0,250,20,120,20,170,20,080,110,090
 
Artemis1992 said:
Too much, 20d6 kills, even if it's alledgedly non-lethal.
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Isn't that a 3.0 thing?
IIRC excessive nonlethal damage no longer translates to lethal damage. I just checked the SRD, and couldn't find any mention of nonlethal damage becoming lethal. It doesn't even deduct from HP anymore, it's a separate counter that knocks you unconscious when it rises higher than your current HP.
If you want to beat someone to death, you have to choose to deal lethal damage with unarmed strikes.
 
@Azel how about a full on devil legion of Baator those would seem the perfect bench mark for the maximum upper tier army , a single devil legion is 100,000 devils strong led by a Pit fiend with a minimum of hundreds of ice devil officers under him , massive core of veteran devils with eons of military service in the blood war under their belts and plenty of high level magical firepower plus gear
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Isn't that a 3.0 thing?
IIRC excessive nonlethal damage no longer translates to lethal damage. I just checked the SRD, and couldn't find any mention of nonlethal damage becoming lethal. It doesn't even deduct from HP anymore, it's a separate counter that knocks you unconscious when it rises higher than your current HP.
If you want to beat someone to death, you have to choose to deal lethal damage with unarmed strikes.
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Hmm, now I can't see anything about it either.

I think DP once ruled that non-lethal damage that brings people into lower negative HP than their full positive HP were can still kill.
With regards to some Merciful spell Viserys planned to use, I think.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Hmm, now I can't see anything about it either.

I think DP once ruled that non-lethal damage that brings people into lower negative HP than their full positive HP were can still kill.
With regards to some Merciful spell Viserys planned to use, I think.
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...
That totally ruins the Exalted nature of End To Strife, then. A shame - I loved that spell, and not just because a "stop hitting yourself!" aura if funny. @DragonParadox, is End to Strife lethal on normal people?
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Isn't that a 3.0 thing?
IIRC excessive nonlethal damage no longer translates to lethal damage. I just checked the SRD, and couldn't find any mention of nonlethal damage becoming lethal. It doesn't even deduct from HP anymore, it's a separate counter that knocks you unconscious when it rises higher than your current HP.
If you want to beat someone to death, you have to choose to deal lethal damage with unarmed strikes.
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Artemis1992 said:
Hmm, now I can't see anything about it either.

I think DP once ruled that non-lethal damage that brings people into lower negative HP than their full positive HP were can still kill.
With regards to some Merciful spell Viserys planned to use, I think.
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TalonofAnathrax said:
...
That totally ruins the Exalted nature of End To Strife, then. A shame - I loved that spell, and not just because a "stop hitting yourself!" aura if funny. @DragonParadox, is End to Strife lethal on normal people?
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DragonParadox said:
For the sake of mechanical simplicity I would have to say yes, but I do like the fluff so I guess we could make and exception for it.
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This is one of those sensible little adjustments added to the Pathfinder version of the 3.5 rules.
If a creature's nonlethal damage is equal to his total maximum hit points (not his current hit points), all further nonlethal damage is treated as lethal damage. This does not apply to creatures with regeneration. Such creatures simply accrue additional nonlethal damage, increasing the amount of time they remain unconscious.
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Well. That was my lunch break. Switched it to count a battle as won/lost at the turn when one side starts retreating. This has the side effect of setting a lot of values to 1 / -1 when the power disparity between two units is so bad that the outmatched side immediately tries to break the engagement before the misery starts. I think that's fine, as that is important information about how the troops will behave in the wild.

1 vs 1LegionLegion_ISLegion_IS_CasterUndead_BasicSkumSahuaginIllithidDevil_Host_LesserDevil_HostDevil_Host_Greater
Legion0-0,13-0,49110,15-1-0,04-0,33-0,98
Legion_IS0,130-0,21110,39-10,1-0,19-0,99
Legion_IS_Caster0,490,210111-0,171-0,11-0,19
Undead_Basic-1-1-100,27-0,1-0,93-0,08-0,89-0,86
Skum-1-1-1-0,270-0,31-0,47-0,44-0,88-0,98
Sahuagin-0,15-0,39-10,10,310-1-0,14-1-1
Illithid110,170,930,47101-0,1-0,11
Devil_Host_Lesser0,04-0,1-10,080,440,14-10-1-1
Devil_Host0,330,190,110,890,8810,110-0,11
Devil_Host_Greater0,980,990,190,860,9810,1110,110

5 vs 5LegionLegion_ISLegion_IS_CasterUndead_BasicSkumSahuaginIllithidDevil_Host_LesserDevil_HostDevil_Host_Greater
Legion0-0,13-0,5110,14-1-0,06-0,33-1
Legion_IS0,130-0,22110,35-10,11-0,2-1
Legion_IS_Caster0,50,220111-0,181-0,12-0,2
Undead_Basic-1-1-100,26-0,16-10,04-1-1
Skum-1-1-1-0,260-0,44-1-0,5-1-1
Sahuagin-0,14-0,35-10,160,440-1-0,14-1-1
Illithid110,18111010,12-0,14
Devil_Host_Lesser0,06-0,11-1-0,040,50,14-10-1-1
Devil_Host0,330,20,12111-0,1210-0,14
Devil_Host_Greater110,21110,1410,140
 
Azel said:
Well. That was my lunch break. Switched it to count a battle as won/lost at the turn when one side starts retreating. This has the side effect of setting a lot of values to 1 / -1 when the power disparity between two units is so bad that the outmatched side immediately tries to break the engagement before the misery starts. I think that's fine, as that is important information about how the troops will behave in the wild.

1 vs 1LegionLegion_ISLegion_IS_CasterUndead_BasicSkumSahuaginIllithidDevil_Host_LesserDevil_HostDevil_Host_Greater
Legion0-0,13-0,49110,15-1-0,04-0,33-0,98
Legion_IS0,130-0,21110,39-10,1-0,19-0,99
Legion_IS_Caster0,490,210111-0,171-0,11-0,19
Undead_Basic-1-1-100,27-0,1-0,93-0,08-0,89-0,86
Skum-1-1-1-0,270-0,31-0,47-0,44-0,88-0,98
Sahuagin-0,15-0,39-10,10,310-1-0,14-1-1
Illithid110,170,930,47101-0,1-0,11
Devil_Host_Lesser0,04-0,1-10,080,440,14-10-1-1
Devil_Host0,330,190,110,890,8810,110-0,11
Devil_Host_Greater0,980,990,190,860,9810,1110,110

5 vs 5LegionLegion_ISLegion_IS_CasterUndead_BasicSkumSahuaginIllithidDevil_Host_LesserDevil_HostDevil_Host_Greater
Legion0-0,13-0,5110,14-1-0,06-0,33-1
Legion_IS0,130-0,22110,35-10,11-0,2-1
Legion_IS_Caster0,50,220111-0,181-0,12-0,2
Undead_Basic-1-1-100,26-0,16-10,04-1-1
Skum-1-1-1-0,260-0,44-1-0,5-1-1
Sahuagin-0,14-0,35-10,160,440-1-0,14-1-1
Illithid110,18111010,12-0,14
Devil_Host_Lesser0,06-0,11-1-0,040,50,14-10-1-1
Devil_Host0,330,20,12111-0,1210-0,14
Devil_Host_Greater110,21110,1410,140
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How are you taking into account the force multiplies we supply the Legions with?

They each have a Lord's Banner of Victory, or will after the latest round of commissioned items is picked up. A +2 Morale bonus on attack rolls and saves is a significant boost, especially at low levels when a soldier's attack bonus might only be +2 or +3.

There is also the effect of the Magic Army spell, which will give everyone's weapons a minimum of a +2 Enhancement bonus, up to +4, depending on the caster.

Combining the effects more than doubles a Legion's damage output, gives them the ability to overcome DR more easily, and resist enemy magic more consistently.
 
Goldfish said:
How are you taking into account the force multiplies we supply the Legions with?

They each have a Lord's Banner of Victory, or will after the latest round of commissioned items is picked up. A +2 Morale bonus on attack rolls and saves is a significant boost, especially at low levels when a soldier's attack bonus might only be +2 or +3.

There is also the effect of the Magic Army spell, which will give everyone's weapons a minimum of a +2 Enhancement bonus, up to +4, depending on the caster.

Combining the effects more than doubles a Legion's damage output, gives them the ability to overcome DR more easily, and resist enemy magic more consistently.
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That's all part of Attack_Physical.
Artemis1992 said:
Maybe, but I would assume Undead don't break, even if killing a small army of lesser Undead is pure clean-up, it's still still a clean-up that has to be done and will cost the superior army some effort.
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That's unrelated to the 1 vs 1 strength considerations though. As for the breaking, in the case of undead that's less "army turns around and runs" and more "officers are dead or driven off, leaving the shambling masses directionless". At that point they cease to be a threat to any organized army that can now easily evade or trap them. The actual clean-up part only comes into play when you have larger battles, where them hanging around without being able to retreat matters, or in turn-scale combat, where they would still be around in the province and soak up attacks and damage.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Straight-up rioting. That's effectively a threat. Fix things, or we'll burn down your offices/homes, make you look extremely weak, and possibly lynch you if we catch you.
  • This is of very limited use (+ high risk) in the Imperium. You have basically no rights, so if you piss off supreme executive power you can just be killed or imprisoned at will. You can't easily overpower law enforcement, because even if you do smash the heavily outnumbered greycloaks they can call in high-level enchanters to nonlethally subdue entire crowds. And of course if your riot gets big enough to trip background Divination screenings, those spellcasters will be around and have the right spells prepared.
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It's not just "high risk," it's guaranteed jailtime or even execution depending on how serious the resulting damage is. Let's ignore how easy it is for our lawmen to subdue the crowds and focus on the aftermath. With paperwork submitted ahead of time on who the organizers are and who they have protesting under them, the rioters would get in hot water but the organizers are doubly fucked for being considered in charge. On top of that, divinations mean you pretty much can't hide in your own anonymity. The lawmen will find you and will know exactly who you are and what you've done.

Protest all you want. Just do it in a peaceful, organized, approved fashion. The second it turns into a riot and people start to die thanks to that, heads will roll.
 
Duesal said:
On top of that, divinations mean you pretty much can't hide in your own anonymity. The lawmen will find you and will know exactly who you are and what you've done.

Protest all you want. Just do it in a peaceful, organized, approved fashion. The second it turns into a riot and people start to die thanks to that, heads will roll.
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And if you're, somehow, managed to ward yourself against Divination or any form of Auguries, then you've got bigger fish to fries.

How does the sound of a suddenly Translocated Squad of Erinyes, Praetorii, and Inquisition feel like to ya?

We should call that the Wyld Hunt for luls. (Internet cookies to those that gets it)
 
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