I think this has more to do with the fact that the players are just tired of that plotline in general though, and also the fact that there is no reasonable way for these Fey to show that they have more depth to themselves because none of them would risk coming near Viserys without a good reason, and the ones that do have a good reason tend to be the ones who are super powerful and do not feel any need to justify their strange, ethereal existence to us.
I do kinda wonder if any will try, be it as friend or foe, now that we made our point.
I made quite a few fey-characters for the Courts and though some died when we brought the hammer down (RIP Gremlin Druid of the Red, you thought fighting an inferno with fire was a good idea) others are still out there, in the Limbo of characters who never appeared on screen.
We could also go the Buttercup option and offer that he can still be our sworn sword if he beats some obvious meme opponent that we've cooked up/recruited, and who everyone not in the know would assume is harmless... Then when it defeats him, we laugh and say no, you don't get to serve us.
Or, I almost want Rhaella to beat the stuffing out of him, to be honest.
Now that you bring her up I would very much like to add a bit at the end along the lines of 'if you even wish to speak again talk to her first' just to get across we do not want to speak to him again and give him a theoretical but absolutely impossible route to getting back in our graces. Sure you can serve us again! Just get our mother to forgive you! Have fun!
You know what? why not even if it won't impact the vote I like it.
[X] "I decline. Go home, Selmy."
-[X] "If you ever wish to talk again, please speak to my Mother first."
-[X] Move on
If it had been up to me, he would have died then, too. That's not how the thread winds were blowing, however, so I've made the most of it over the years. Like Artemis said, he's turned out to be an interesting and entertaining character, so I don't begrudge the decision.
[X] "I have lived this moment in my mind more than once, Ser Barristan. I wondered if it would be anger or disappointment I would feel foremost when it came. When I now meet that moment in the flesh, however, I just feel pity. Pity for the old world and all its horrors and failings, and pity for you who should find yourself at your closing chapter just as we turn the page again."
-[X] Gesture toward the door. "Go back home."
[x] Ask him how he would like to retire. You shall not hold his actions-or rather-inaction against him. but we cannot in good conscience keep him in the Kingsguard. Which we are after all disbanding. Leaving it in the past where it belongs.
[X] Sir Barristan Selmy, I release you from your vows.
- [X] My kingdom is too large to manage with just seven knights, so the King's Guard will be disbanded.
- [X] But if you want to serve our Empire, you will have many ways. Get used to the changed realm first, and if you still want to serve me, find me later.
- [X] Just keep in mind that my warriors do not stand behind the throne and shine in tournaments, they go to the farthest corners of the world, where they will fight with the horrors that are preparing to break out into the populated lands.
We're letting him walk away because there's just too many targets worthy of shelling out blame in regards to Aerys getting away with everything he did.
If we take Selmy's head for conveniently forgetting nine out of every ten oaths he swore, we'd have have a bloodier start to our reign than Maegor ever did.
'Conveniently Forgetting'? Wat? Selmy was hardly in a position to do anything. He could either A) Do nothing or B) Die. That was the sum total of his choice. Let us not decieve ourselves here, Barristan is hardly a great villain for standing by in his position, and that's if we take the oath of protecting the Queen above his duty to obey the King, or waive both for morality's sake.
Viserys and Dany have as far as I know never deceived themselves over their father's character, so Viserys *knows* that Selmy would have been toasted if he had tried to stick up for Rhaella. Hell, even RHAEGAR stood by whilst his mother suffered and we don't explicitly hate him for that.
Sure, Selmy is literally no-one to us, but he is deserving of neither praise nor condemnation. What's with the personal vitriol here? Is there something I'm missing?
He could have lied to Robert about accepting him and then ran off to Essos to look for the Targ kids
He could have killed Aerys when he took up rape and judicial murder as a recreational pastime. Sure it would have gotten him sent to the Wall at best and killed most likely, but at least he would have kept his oaths as a knight
At the very least he could have not shit on Jaimie for doing the thing he did not have the honor and integrity to do
Selmy is no grand villain, but he is also no hero though he presents himself as one.
There are a dozen things and more you could say to this man made a great knight in song and tale, a dozen sins and broken vows you could recount, of which the one Dany had recounted was only the most heavy on the mind. Yet as your lips part to speak them you cannot find the breath to spare it.
Who would it aid and how, to what end to delay your steps on this of all days which so many already marching and flying to fulfill your will as they may? If feels almost childish or at least indulgent to set all that on hold just so you could berate a failure in wrapped in a white cloak and the sense of his own importance. Thus your words are plain as they are cold: "I decline. Go home, Selmy."
The last is barely a command, more of an off-handed placeholder since you no longer care enough about him to tell him to go to hell. You do not wait to see his reaction passed stunned silence, you have more important business to attend to. With a parting nod to the legionnaires whose prisoner you had just released you continue up the steps.
"Who was the asshole..." you hear Maelor ask Dany as the Hound surprises all of you with a gravely chuckle.
Catching your eye he just shakes his head. "Never thought I'd see the day when old white beard himself gets sent off like a cheap whore."
"Whores do honest business," Ser Richard snorts in turn. By the time you are at the top of the stairs you are the only one who can hear the sound of receding footsteps behind you.
***
Alas that not all the troubles of the night can be solved with a swift dismissal. Tywin's Red-Cloaked soldiers present you with a conundrum. Though about a third of them surrendered, a little over four-hundred men in all, they rarely did so unless they had no other choice, wounded, incapacitated, or with their backs literally against the wall. These men will not love you for freeing them for they are truly loyal to the Lord of Casterly Rock and not just to his gold. Among the those sent to lead them not a single knight of some highborn House had lived, leaving those from families little better than House Clegane to offer their swords.
Then there are the mages... the ones who are still alive at least. Of the eight Golden Shields sorcerers known to have been in the Red Keep at sundown today five are dead, one is gone, and two are in custody. Both of them had been geased and by all signs hold as much love for Tywin Lannister as one might expect under the circumstances. You could make a great show of it by breaking the enchantments in the throne room.
Initially you had thought to do the same to Tygett Lannister since it had taken you barely a glimpse of his thoughts in the grip of involuntary unconsciousness to realize something had compromised his free will, but the closer you looks the stranger it becomes. "Lya, come over here. What does this looks like to you...?" 'Look' is perhaps not the best word for a thought form, but you had been speaking Low Valyrian at the time.
She whispers a syllable that is both more and less than true spellcraft and looks down at the man laid unconscious on the bed by his Praetori guards. "Eh... I see what you mean. That seems really odd, at least really odd to find in a human. It's like some kind of biological imperative to subsume his interests to the group and thus its leader. It's like the need to eat or sleep. He can push it aside when it would be foolish to act on it in the most direct way, but he cannot ignore it long-term. He has to take it into account in all things eventually. That is actually a clever way to enthrall someone in the long run and keep them functioning without any loss of ability, let it be self-regulating."
"So did some wizard cut open his brain and add a new piece to it?" Maelor interjects. "Need to get the creepy old man on this?"
"No..." you answer slowly, the first inklings of a theory occurring to you. You gather your magic, like fire in the back of your mind, and weave it fine as silk into a form strange and familiar all at once, to block all mind-speech. It should keep him for about a day. "Look now, what do you see?"
"He seems wholly himself, no pressure on his mind," Lya replies surprised. "What did you do?"
"The same bit of magic you would normally have to work to free a formian worker from his hive." You feel a bitter smile curve your lips. "All hail King Tywin, master of his brood."
"Wait, that was wishcraft, right? As strong as you can make it?" Dany asks. "But it looks temporary."
"As far as I know the only way to permanently sever the sort of connection Tywin made with his kin is the literal will of a god." You reply. The memory feels solid as stone when you prod it. The wyrm from whom you had inherited it from had tried many ways torturous and profane to break the bond. Nothing had worked for more than about a day at a time.
"Or we could just kill Tywin," Dany says, her words heavy as the door of crypt slamming closed. "That seems easier to come by than divine intervention."
411 Red Cloaks
2 Westerlander Knights
2 Golden Shields Wizard 6 (Geased)
1 Tygett Lannister (Bound with some kind of imitation Formian magic)
What do you do with your captives?
[] Write in
OOC: And here we are, you guys got some pretty high rolls for knowledge and spellcraft this time around.
the oaths of the king's guard knight are life long and to the death and he knew it , a king's guard is expected to laydown his life for his king if the situation demands it in the carrying out of his duty also lets not make excuses for him he could have at any point in time decided to sneak out of the capital and join Viserys and Dany as the do nothing option was to break his oath as a king's guard knight while the die option would have seen him at least uphold his oath , plus Slemy in the unfortunate position of being compared to Richard a comparison in which he fall short on every metric
"The same bit of magic you would normally have to work to free a formian worker from his hive." You feel a bitter smile curve your lips. "All hail King Tywin, master of his brood."
It's hilarious that even Khal Rhango's bloodriders had more integrity than Ser Barristan. They knew they were screwed in their duel with Viserys, and they still charged and died because honor demanded it after he slew their khal.
He could have lied to Robert about accepting him and then ran off to Essos to look for the Targ kids
He could have killed Aerys when he took up rape and judicial murder as a recreational pastime. Sure it would have gotten him sent to the Wall at best and killed most likely, but at least he would have kept his oaths as a knight
At the very least he could have not shit on Jaimie for doing the thing he did not have the honor and integrity to do
Selmy is no grand villain, but he is also no hero though he presents himself as one.
1. This has very little to do with Rhaella and her treatment- most Westerosi Lords did the same. They merit no respect, but no punishment either
2. By that metric most if not all Targaryen Loyalists deserve to die for supporting Aerys, and Viserys himself is a pragmatic individual who disdains showboating of virtue and does not condone suicide for the sake of 'honour'. It would be a double standard to apply these tenets to Barristan.
3. Did he know *why* Jaime killed Aerys? Because Jaime too stood by until the rebellion, never lifting a finger for Rhaella either. And when he DID kill Aerys, absent the wildfire which Selmy didn't know about (did he?) it would have looked like he betrayed Aerys for Tywin when it became clear Tywin was going to win anyway, and Aerys would likely have been executed for his crimes then. Without the cruicial context, it looks like Jaime shanked Aerys to score style points with his dad- the King would have died either way sooner or later.
Again I ask; why single out Barristan? He wasn't perfect, but he's no egotist who sees himself as a hero either to my eyes. And he *did* legitimately serve house Targaryen well, both in the Ninepenny Kings war and at Duskendale. Many, MANY lords and knights can claim far less but I don't see Viserys stopping to trade barbs with them!
"Or we could just kill Tywin," Dany says, her words heavy as the door of crypt slamming closed. "That seems easier to come by than divine intervention."
There are a dozen things and more you could say to this man made a great knight in song and tale, a dozen sins and broken vows you could recount, of which the one Dany had made mention was only the most heavy on the mind. Yet as your lips part to speak them, you cannot find the breath to spare it.
Who would it aid and how, to what end to delay your steps on this of all days with so many already marching and flying to fulfill your will as they may? If feels almost childish, or at least self-indulgent, to set all that on hold just so you could berate a failure wrapped in a white cloak and the sense of his own importance. Thus, your words are plain as they are cold, "I decline. Go home, Selmy."
The last is barely a command, more of an off-handed placeholder since you no longer care enough about him to tell him to go to hell. You do not wait to see his reaction beyond stunned silence, you have more important business to attend to. With a parting nod to the legionnaires whose prisoner you had just released, you continue up the steps.
"Who was the asshole..." you hear Maelor ask Dany as the Hound surprises all of you with a gravely chuckle.
Catching your eye, he just shakes his head. "Never thought I'd see the day when old white beard himself gets sent off like a cheap whore."
"Whores do honest business," Ser Richard snorts in turn. By the time you are at the top of the stairs, you are the only one who can hear the sound of receding footsteps behind you.
***
Alas that not all the troubles of the night can be solved with a swift dismissal. Tywin's Red-Cloaked soldiers present you with a conundrum. Though about a third of them surrendered, a little over four-hundred men in all, they rarely did so unless they had no other choice, wounded, incapacitated, or with their backs literally against the wall. These men will not love you for freeing them, for they are truly loyal to the Lord of Casterly Rock and not just to his gold. Among the knights set to lead them, not a single knight of some highborn house had lived, leaving those from families little better than House Clegane to offer their swords.
Then there are the mages... the ones who are still alive at least. Of the eight Golden Shields sorcerers known to have been in the Red Keep at sundown today five are dead, one is gone, and two are in custody. Both of them had been geased, and by all signs hold as much love for Tywin Lannister as one might expect under the circumstances. You could make a great show of it by breaking the enchantments in the throne room.
Initially, you had thought to do the same to Tygett Lannister, since It had taken you barely a glimpse of his thoughts in the grip of involuntary unconsciousness to realize something had compromised his free will, but the closer you looks the stranger it becomes. "Lya, come over here. What does this look like to you...?" 'Look' is perhaps not the best word for a thought form, but you had been speaking Low Valyrian at the time.
She whispers a syllable that is both more and less than true spellcraft, and looks down at the man laid unconscious on the bed by his Praetori guards. "Eh... I see what you mean. That seems really odd, at least really odd to find in a human. It's like some kind of biological imperative to subsume his interests to the group, and thus its leader. It's as integral as the need to eat or sleep. He can push it aside when it would be foolish to act on it in the most direct way, but he cannot ignore it long term. He eventually has to take it into account in all things. That is actually a clever way to enthrall someone in the long run and keep them functioning without any loss of ability, let it be self-regulating."
"So did some wizard cut open his brain and add a new piece for it?" Maelor interjects. "Need to get the creepy old man on this?"
"No..." you answer slowly, the first inklings of a theory occurring to you. You gather your magic, like fire in the back of your mind and weave it fine as silk into a form strange and familiar all at once, to block all mind-speech. It should keep him for about a day. "Look now, what do you see?"
"He seems wholly himself, no pressure on his mind," Lya replies surprised. "What did you do?"
"The same bit of magic you would normally have to work to free a formian worker from his hive." You feel a bitter smile curve your lips. "All hail King Tywin, master of his brood."
"Wait, that was wishcraft, right? As strong as you can make it?" Dany asks. "But it looks temporary."
"As far as I know, the only way to permanently sever the sort of connection Tywin made with his kin is the literal will of a god." You reply. The memory feels solid as stone when you prod it. The wyrm from whom you had inherited it from had tried many ways, both torturous and profane, to break the bond. Nothing had worked for more than about a day at a time.
"Or we could just kill Tywin," Dany says, her words heavy as the door of crypt slamming closed. "That seems easier to come by than divine intervention."
411 Red Cloaks
2 Westerlander Knights
2 Golden Shields Wizard 6 (Geased)
1 Tygett Lannister (Bound with some kind of imitation Formian magic)
What do you do with your captives?
[] Write in
OOC: And here we are, you guys got some pretty high rolls for knowledge and spellcraft this time around.
Made some additional edits to the chapter, @DragonParadox.
1. This has very little to do with Rhaella and her treatment- most Westerosi Lords did the same. They merit no respect, but no punishment either
2. By that metric most if not all Targaryen Loyalists deserve to die for supporting Aerys, and Viserys himself is a pragmatic individual who does not condone suicide for the sake of 'honour'. It would be a double standard to apply these tenets to Barristan
3. Did he know *why* Jaime killed Aerys? Because Jaime too stood by until the rebellion, never lifting a finger for Rhaella either. And when he DID kill Aerys, absent the wildfire which Selmy didn't know about (did he?) it would have looked like he betrayed Aerys for Tywin when it became clear Tywin was going to win anyway, and Aerys would likely have been executed for his crimes then. Without the cruicial context, it looks like Jaime shanked Aerys to score style points with his dad- the King would have died either way sooner or later.
Again I ask; why single out Barristan? He wasn't perfect, but he's no egotist who sees himself as a hero either to my eyes. And he *did* legitimately serve house Targaryen well, both in the Ninepenny Kings war and at Duskendale. Many, MANY lords and knights can claim far less but I don't see Viserys stopping to trade barbs with them!
The oaths of a kingsguard are far more strict than those of random lords, they are supposed to be more like those of a Black Brother of the Watch since they are for life and forswearing any other alliance. If a Brother of the Watch breaks their vows, they are made outlaw no ifs and buts, their life forfeit.
[X] Plan The Usual
-[X] The Red Cloaks and the Knights can choose between the Wall and a noose.
-[X] As the Wizards were forced into compliance by Geasa, they won't be branded as traitors. They will be given to the Inquisition to be debriefed (and some mental checks to make sure they are no sleeper agents) and then released.
-[X] Tygett will be bottled and then handed over to the Inquisition. They will use the Gates to immediately bring him to the Imperial Palace and it's maximum security holding cells for in-depth interrogation, mental checks and mind reading by Bloodraven.
