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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Jack vile Ripper said:
Speaking of Praetorians.

I know the intention of them was to create a Legion that could withstood the strongest attack from any types of enemy. With Naval (well, Air in this case) support and Base Command giving auguries and kilometers wide report to reap the best victory.

But, what of the Imperial Legion then? What use of the mortals if we've managed to grow the Praetorians enough that warfare using baseline humans became obsolete? Will we replace them entirely?
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They would mostly serve as a back-up and garrison force. They would still be useful for anything where it is advantageous to just have a lot of warm bodies.

To go with the obligatory 40K comparison:
Legion -> Imperial Guard
Praetori -> Space Marines
 
Azel said:
They would mostly serve as a back-up and garrison force. They would still be useful for anything where it is advantageous to just have a lot of warm bodies.

To go with the obligatory 40K comparison:
Legion -> Imperial Guard
Praetori -> Space Marines
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Mhm, I'd say non-Veteran Praetorians are closer to Ogryns.

Big, beefy, arguably hard-hitting unit, but not really at the tactical use a Spacemarine/Praetori in a full set of Warden+ armor is.

The gear really decided the deady'ness of the units round here.
 
Winning Vote
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Mar 4, 2021 at 5:09 AM, finished with 183 posts and 13 votes.
  • [X] Plan Trap Avoidance
    -[X] Do not Teleport to the throne, but instead to the center of the throne room, behind your Praetori.
    --[X] Sandor and Richard engage the Golems in close combat to relieve the Praetori.
    --[X] Viserys casts Freezing Glance to stun hostile mages.
    --[X] Lya uses Control Winds to create strong winds blowing from the entrance to the throne so that any noxious fumes produced by the dying golems are blown away from your forces and towards the Lannisters.
    --[X] Dany casts Greater Dispel Magic on the throne in case any Shenanigans have been prepared there.
    --[X] Maelor uses Chilling Tentacles to bind some of the golems.
    -[X] Praetori Orders (to be implemented if not already being executed)
    --[X] Most Praetori should take cover behind the pillars in the throne room to limit exposure to the ray attacks.
    --[X] All Praetori not in close combat use their Launchers in the following ways:
    ---[X] Explosive Packs and Fungal Stun Vials fired at the casters to neutralise them.
    ---[X] Liquid Ice fired at the golems to keep them Slowed and causing damage.
    ---[X] Explosive Packs fired at the golems to cause damage.
    ---[X] Regular bolts (3d8+4, bypassing DR due to Magic Army) to cause damage.
    --[X] Use Water and Earth elementals to support close combat.
    --[X] Use Fire and Air elementals to attack the casters.
    --[X] Praetori in close combat prioritize isolating and swarming the golems. (Praetori IS sword pierce the DR automatically, even without Magic Army)
    --[X] Mage Killing Strategy:
    ---[X] If they put up defensive spells that diver launcher ammunition to a degree that attack by it is unfeasible, use Fire and Air elementals summoned by gem to bog them down in melee while advancing on their position to engage them in melee.
    ---[X] If not or if the protection can be bypassed by maneuvering, use Fungal Stund vials to stun or confuse them and fire Explosive Packs at them before closing into melee.
    --[X] Golem Killing Strategy:
    ---[X] If golems need to be pinned for a moment to maneuver around them or to give wounded Praetori a chance to retreat out of melee, use Tanglefoot Bags fired from Launchers.
    ---[X] After the golem is Slowed by Liquid Ice and preferably already damaged by Explosive Pack or Launcher Bolts, summon a Earth or Air elemental behind it to keep it occupied and to prepare flanking.
    ---[X] A four person group made up ad-hoc from the more experienced squad leaders will charge the golem:
    ----[X] A nearby Praetori not participating in the charge uses Encouraging Roar to grant them a +2 Morale Bonus on ATK and DMG.
    ----[X] As a Swift Action, activate Brave Gambit, gaining a +3 Luck Bonus on the attack roll.
    ----[X] As a Full-Round Action, activate Panthera on the Hunt for a +2 Circumstance Bonus for the attack and damage roll while ignoring threatened areas.
    ----[X] Use the Primal Warrior stance to gain +1 Competence Bonus to ATK and DMG, and treat his weapon as 2 size categories larger.
    ----[X] Use Power Attack and Shock Trooper to take a -6 to AC while boosting damage by +18.
    ----[X] Due to Distracting Charge, every Praetori who resolves his attack after another charging Praetori has already hit the golem gets a stacking +2 Untyped bonus to his ATK for every Praetori that has already hit.
    ----[X] Due to the elemental providing flanking, they get a +2 Flanking bonus to ATK.
    ----[X] ATK: 6 (BAB) + 5 (STR) + 4 (Enhancement - Magic Army) + 2 (Charge) + 2 (Circumstance) + 3 (Luck) + 1 (Competence) + 2 (Morale) + 2 (Flanking) = 27
    ----[X] DMG: 3d8 (Base with Primal Warrior) + 5 (STR) + 4 (Enhancement) + 18 (Power Attack) + 2 (Morale) + 2 (Circumstance) + 1 (Competence) = 3d8 + 32
    ---[X] Once they are in melee, assuming the golem was not destroyed by the charge, they use their Dual Boost ability to initiate both Scarlet Eyes Perception and Regal Blade while dumping as much ATK by Power Attack as possible to maximize their damage while resolving their next attack against Touch AC.
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Eh, we should send some of the flesh forged casters here. Teleport them in and just have them disintegrate the spheres.
 
Wow, that's quite a setup. A tough matchup for our guys.

Questions:
  • Please tell me that Praetorian officer just crit on a Knowledge roll or something. I was honestly expecting our fire-guys to try burning them down... Although the fire attacks could be uesful against the orbs, if they're in range.
  • Do we know why the Golems bother collapsing their glaves and not just using Slam Attacks when in melee?
  • Are the mages giving orders to the Golems, or are they operating on predefined instructions? Pretty sure the Praetorians can't tell either way, but...
 
DragonParadox said:
Floor: Rectangle: 800 ft x 400 ft.
Height: 80 ft.
Dotted with columns that hold up the arched roof.

Enemies:
6x Golden Shield mages
  • Protected invulnerable spheres
  • Flying 50 ft above the floor
  • Casting through floating adamantine rings linked to their wands (AC 22; Hardness 20; 10 HP)
  • Have cast Scintillating Sphere (10d6 electrical damage)
  • Can Haste the Golems on their turn with a swift action activating built-in fire runes
10 Golden Golems (4 Staggered; 6 Hasted)
  • Possess Collapsible Glaives which gives them a reach of 20 ft
  • If engaged in melee from inside their reach can collapse the weapons for combat with a move action
Allied forces
40 Praetorians (12 wounded in initial electrical volley)
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That means we have exactly 4 Praetori who can actually pull off the charge maneuver against 10 golems. And the mages get full on invulnerability cheats. Lovely.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Wow, that's quite a setup. A tough matchup for our guys.

Questions:
  • Please tell me that Praetorian officer just crit on a Knowledge roll or something. I was honestly expecting our fire-guys to try burning them down... Although the fire attacks could be uesful against the orbs, if they're in range.
  • Do we know why the Golems bother collapsing their glaves and not just using Slam Attacks when in melee?
  • Are the mages giving orders to the Golems, or are they operating on predefined instructions? Pretty sure the Praetorians can't tell either way, but...
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  1. He rolled an 18 before bonuses so not quite a crit but high.
  2. Presumably because the weapons are magical
  3. No way to tell
 
Of Golden Shields and Blades of Steel​

Thirtieth Day of the Fourth Month 294 AC

After the narrow corridors and makeshift barricades of hardened rubble, the chance to move into the Great Hall of the keep would have merited a cheer if any of the members of the assault could spare the breath for it. The Lannisters had quickly learned that any attempt to meet the Praetori blade to blade would end with their blood staining fine carpets and exotic woods, and so they had done what any clever foe did and adapted, poisoned fumes had been a favored tactic.

Although they had not managed to cook up anything that could knock out the Praetori's enhanced metabolism in good time, it gave cover for the crossbowmen to fire on every chokepoint while their mages turned their wands on the walls and floors where they could. Flames might not harm the toughened flesh of the attackers much more than it did their dragon-forged plate, but the sheer force of the blasts could still knock out supports that would bury them in stone and the smoke added to the chaos and devastation.

They are not planning to keep the place, Captain Zhisnos knew as sure as he knew the sun rose in the east. He recalled those kinds of tactics from when he had been Brown Maggot of the Unsullied, before the magic of the Imperator's healers had restored his manhood and the the creed of his realm had restored his soul. Dead men walking are the most dangerous sort, and not just when there is sorcery to make them so.

"Go, Go, Go!" he called, the syllables mingling with the clank of armored boots so heavy the cobbles splintered under them. At least this door was wide enough for them to be going in more than in single fire.

"Dragon's flaming balls!"

Zhisnos was not sure who had cursed, but they had picked a good one for the moment. Floating above them in spheres of inviolate golden magic that any Praetori had been trained to see were half a dozen Golden Shields. The question of what the hells they were doing up there was answered before it could be asked when one of them directed a wand at Henrick and shot forked lightning through the damn ball of magic that was not supposed to let anything past.

As squads scrambled for cover among the columns under lightning blasts splashed and arced across the floor, though thankfully not managing to overwhelm the healing magics each of them had been empowered with. Zhisnos realized that each of the enemy wizards had a ring of adamantine floating in front of their bubbles and the magic was coming out of those instead of flying out of the shields themselves. That was a bit better since it left something to shoot at that wasn't impregnable magic, but on the other hand it sure as shit wasn't flesh and blood.

Wait, was that fucking gold glinting at behind the column there? Why the hells... As though some demon of misfortune heard his thought, the hulking statue moved, fixing its ornate glaive and charging the nearest Praetorians faster than the damn thing should have ever been able to, flaming runes dancing across its glimmering armor.


"Ice it!" the captain called out even as he fixed his own weapon. He could not be sure this would work as he hoped, but he had some notion that men forged of iron would heal from fire. Perhaps gold moved swifter for it.

Launchers pounded on the thing, no things. There were ten of them stacked up against four times the number of Praetori, rushing out of cover to kill with cold mechanical intent... and eight of them got iced, rime-frost blooming over the polished metal and extinguishing the brands where they touched them. Before any of them could breathe a sigh of relief, however, the fire kindled right up in six of the hulks and with it the unnatural flowing movements.

As Zhisnos' brothers and sisters in arms charged he looked up at the mages, wondering how the hells he would be able to knock those rings off them, and realized the mages had glanced at the golems before turning their wands again upon the Praetori. They could trigger the fire with a look and still fight.

Floor: Rectangle: 800 ft x 400 ft.
Height: 80 ft.
Dotted with columns that hold up the arched roof.

Enemies:
6x Golden Shield mages
  • Protected invulnerable spheres
  • Flying 50 ft above the floor
  • Casting through floating adamantine rings linked to their wands (AC 22; Hardness 20; 10 HP)
  • Have cast Scintillating Sphere (10d6 electrical damage)
  • Can Haste the Golems on their turn with a swift action activating built-in fire runes
10 Golden Golems (4 Staggered; 6 Hasted)
  • Possess Collapsible Glaives which gives them a reach of 20 ft
  • If engaged in melee from inside their reach can collapse the weapons for combat with a move action
Allied forces
40 Praetorians (12 wounded in initial electrical volley)

What do the Praetorians do?

[] Write in

OOC: I decided to break off here for two reasons, firstly because the update was getting rather large and secondly because it is rather unfair to expect you guys to make plans for an encounter you only have limited information on, such as not knowing why the mages are not sitting ducks.
Made a few minor edits to the chapter, @DragonParadox.
 
Massgamer said:
You can't say that Tywin doesn't put his near limitless money into research and development.
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And we infiltrated his RnD center beneath Casterly Rock and got recent Golden Shields defectors, yet got yet again completely blindsided by this.

It's immensely frustrating how everyone keeps bringing the perfect counters to whatever we cook up and we literally never know ahead of time what we will face.

Edit: I mean, I'm fine with the landmines outside. I'm fine with the golems, even though that we are completely oblivious to them is stretching belief. But now their mages get invulnerability hacks? Yeah. No.
 
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[X] Retreat into the hallways and blow the entrance with Explosive Packs, then wait for Viserys to sort this out.

This ain't worth it at all.
 
Azel said:
And we infiltrated his RnD center beneath Casterly Rock and got recent Golden Shields defectors, yet got yet again completely blindsided by this.

It's immensely frustrating how everyone keeps bringing the perfect counters to whatever we cook up and we literally never know ahead of time what we will face.
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We know he has deals with antmen and can have other R&D places because the Rock, including literally limitless Plane of Earth. We do the same thing with multiple research sites and actively make things to counter certain threats.

Tywin is just playing as the competent PC he always has been.
 
DragonParadox said:
They have to do some research. Just think of the use you will get from the tech. Even limited ability to ignore Line of Effect is no small thing (and it is very limited).
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That's not my problem. I wouldn't even care if they take the secret of their cheat-spheres into the grave. My problem is that we go blind into literally every battle, no matter how much effort we've spent on reconnaissance.

We have, right now, spies under Casterly Rock and defectors sitting in SD, yet we have no idea what the bloody hell the Lannisters have in regards to weapons and troops.
 
Azel said:
It's immensely frustrating how everyone keeps bringing the perfect counters to whatever we cook up and we literally never know ahead of time what we will face.
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I generally agree with you on this, but in these circumstances this feels partly unfair.
1: This would have been a solid counter to basically anything that tried to take the Throne room instead of shelling the keep, and would have a solid strategy against us & Companions if we'd walked in
2: On the other hand, I'm a little surprised that we didn't get IC hints at any of this. Maybe the attack-orbs could have been easily hidden if only a single mindblanked person knew about them and then gave them to the GS when we arrived in town, but surely the ten Golems weren't smuggled in in total secret! We literally had multiple high-ranked spies in this very keep!
We knew OOC that there were golden lion-shaped Golems near the throne, but AFAIK that was it.
 
Azel said:
It's immensely frustrating how everyone keeps bringing the perfect counters to whatever we cook up and we literally never know ahead of time what we will face.
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I am sort of wandering but how come we couldn't scry this ? , I mean specific location and people can be warded against it but not every one or everywhere , there are hundreds of mages in the golden shields and not all of them can be warded nor can they stay indefinitely in a warded location either so it should have been possible to bring to bare the full might of the divination school of magic against them
 
@DragonParadox, I have to agree with Azel here that you do bad encounter-foreshadowing.

It is understandable, as you seem to come up with stuff largely on the spot, but it is still frustrating to try and play anything but the uber-unbalanced main characters of ours.
Against whom you make up all the encounters to begin with.

Kinda a vicious cycle, there.
 
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Azel said:
And we infiltrated his RnD center beneath Casterly Rock and got recent Golden Shields defectors, yet got yet again completely blindsided by this.

It's immensely frustrating how everyone keeps bringing the perfect counters to whatever we cook up and we literally never know ahead of time what we will face.

Edit: I mean, I'm fine with the landmines outside. I'm fine with the golems, even though that we are completely oblivious to them is stretching belief. But now their mages get invulnerability hacks? Yeah. No.
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We don't know how much of this was purchased from extraplanar contacts, how much was found in a vault somewhere, and how much they researched and crafted for themselves.

I have a feeling the only fully homegrown stuff was the landmines.
 
Massgamer said:
We know he has deals with antmen and can have other R&D places because the Rock, including literally limitless Plane of Earth. We do the same thing with multiple research sites and actively make things to counter certain threats.

Tywin is just playing as the competent PC he always has been.
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And there's still a limit of how many aces you can draw from your sleeves before it becomes unrealistic.

We missed the anti-dragon construct in Seaguard.
We missed the alchemical production for the landmines.
We missed the Gold Golems.
We missed the invulnerability spheres.

In fact, what precisely do we know about the Lannister forces?
Nothing. Nothing at all. They get to pull things from thin air every time we engage them, no matter how hard we try to get intel on them.

Heck, we knew for months that they had "some sort of anti-dragon weapon" and we know that they fired with something at the Wyverns last month. We still have not gotten any answers to what that was and how that happened, despite repeatedly throwing resources at finding out.
 
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