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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Azel said:
Edit: Not Scholarium researchers though. This is flesh forging and I want no more scrubs near Gogossos if we can help it.

@egoo, maybe throw Elaheh at this? She would definitely have fun with this.
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Do we actually have to research this?
I'm not sure on the exact ones, but isn't @Goldfish using only the templates we already have?

I mean, we never really had to invest research-time into creatures unless they were something really unique (Umbral shit as the example) and we had no base to work off?

If you want an MA to note her working on these, sure.
 
Goldfish said:
We could actually do something like that, but it would take some research. Maybe it's something we could assign Scholarium researchers to?

To do it, we would first take the basic Mimic and add the Creature Swarm template. That would actually reduce them from CR 4 to CR 3, since it the Mimics would be losing their Constrict special attack. This would turn each Mimic into a Swarm composed of 10,000 Fine-sized micro-Mimics.

Then we add the Collective Creature template to bring them back up to CR 4. Among other things, this gives the Mimic Swarm the ability to combine with other Mimic Swarms to form a single larger Mimic entity.

Rather than Wood Element Creature, which wouldn't work well with this setup, I would then add Fungal for the attribute bonuses, poisonous spores, and Plant immunities, along with Advanced as usual.

Each Advanced Fungal Mimic Collective Swarm would be CR 6. Each of them could operate as an independent Mimic Swarm as needed, but they could combine to form larger and larger Collective Mimics. Each additional Mimic Swarm added to the Collective would increase its CR by +1 and its HD by +2. Sticking with the CR 15 limit for most Forge creatures, I would say that no more than 10 Mimic Swarms could combine to form a single CR 15, 22 HD Collective Mimic.

It's not exactly a Shoggoth, but it's still pretty impressive. The Mimic Swarms would retain their ability to mimic objects, too, so a door, chest, couch, etc., could suddenly burst apart into a Swarm composed of tens of thousands of micro-Mimics.
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Would they get telepathic communication with this plan?
 
egoo said:
Do we actually have to research this?
I'm not sure on the exact ones, but isn't @Goldfish using only the templates we already have?

I mean, we never really had to invest research-time into creatures unless they were something really unique (Umbral shit as the example) and we had no base to work off?

If you want an MA to note her working on these, sure.
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We don't have the two templates he wants to use yet, which is why we need to develop them.

Mind you, beside being funny as hell to do this, being able to make swarms would be neat. Swarms suck to fight against, especially when they are specifically designed to resist AoE damage. Which I would do. Gleefully. Just imagine giving the Missing template to a Shadow Creature swarm. Pure agony to fight against.
 
egoo said:
Eh, I'm not sure we should do that while Reconquesting.
The remains of CoS more-or-less agreed to integration after conditions are met (Azure after we exchange lore proper, Green after they transform their Lord's corpse into something OG-related).
Court-less would be covered well enough by the Inquisition terror strikes agaisnt any not following the law, when we establish the bases proper.
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The Azure Court and the Green Court can be counted on not to do anything, but the wildfae do need to be dealt with. Inquisition strikes are reliable but still need to be targeted. Also I just don't like the idea of thousands of hostiles in with anti-Imperium sentiments in the Riverlands. The least problem they'll cause is an endless supply of anti-Targaryen rumors.
 
i say Stick Glyra and Mealor with some additional backup like Rina on a romp through the riverlands to hover up some of those wildfey
 
@DragonParadox, for the record, everything under the Aquarium header is just for the ball room that @Crake wanted where the floor and one of the walls is a giant aquarium. They are solely there to look pretty and spruce up the place.
 
Verdom said:
Would they get telepathic communication with this plan?
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Yep. It would only cost 120 IM to add it to a CR 6 Advanced Fungal Mimic Collective Swarm, and it would be free if we grew them using corpse HD.
egoo said:
Do we actually have to research this?
I'm not sure on the exact ones, but isn't @Goldfish using only the templates we already have?

I mean, we never really had to invest research-time into creatures unless they were something really unique (Umbral shit as the example) and we had no base to work off?

If you want an MA to note her working on these, sure.
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We would need to develop the Creature Swarm and Collective Creature templates to make this work.

These aren't logical extensions of basic Fleshforging, such as gaining the ability to use the Miniature template simply because it is effectively making a very small version of something. They're both quite extreme in how much they change the nature of a Forge servitor, so if we want them, it makes sense that we would have to research the templates.
Azel said:
We don't have the two templates he wants to use yet, which is why we need to develop them.

Mind you, beside being funny as hell to do this, being able to make swarms would be neat. Swarms suck to fight against, especially when they are specifically designed to resist AoE damage. Which I would do. Gleefully. Just imagine giving the Missing template to a Shadow Creature swarm. Pure agony to fight against.
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The Distraction ability of a sufficiently beefy Swarm can also be really, well, distracting. Being Nauseated can really ruin your day. Unfortunately, the Advanced Fungal Mimic Collective Swarms lose their Distraction ability when combined, but they can Engulf, and that's even better. With 10 of them combined, they become Huge-sized, allowing them to potentially Engulf multiple opponents simultaneously.
Engulf (Ex): A collective creature can occupy the same square(s) as a creature that fits within its space as a standard action (since the individuals can crawl all over the opponent). It cannot make any other attack in any round in which it engulfs. The collective creature merely has to move over its opponents, affecting as many as it can cover. Opponents can make attacks of opportunity against the collective creature, but if they do so, they are not entitled to a saving throw. Those who do not attempt attacks of opportunity must succeed on a Reflex save or be engulfed; on a success, they are pushed back or aside (opponent's choice). Engulfed creatures take slam damage and are subjected to any other special attack the collective might have (poison, disease, and so on) each round on the collective's turn. An engulfed creature is considered to be grappled and trapped within the collective creature's body.
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At 22 HD and with a Constitution of 25, the Collective's Reflex save DC would be 28, and the only way victims would even be allowed a chance to save is if they refrain from attacking. And then, just to be a dick, they can use their DC 28 Fortitutde save poison cloud on everyone they've Engulfed.
 
Goldfish said:
We could actually do something like that, but it would take some research. Maybe it's something we could assign Scholarium researchers to?

To do it, we would first take the basic Mimic and add the Creature Swarm template. That would actually reduce them from CR 4 to CR 3, since it the Mimics would be losing their Constrict special attack. This would turn each Mimic into a Swarm composed of 10,000 Fine-sized micro-Mimics.

Then we add the Collective Creature template to bring them back up to CR 4. Among other things, this gives the Mimic Swarm the ability to combine with other Mimic Swarms to form a single larger Mimic entity.

Rather than Wood Element Creature, which wouldn't work well with this setup, I would then add Fungal for the attribute bonuses, poisonous spores, and Plant immunities, along with Advanced as usual.

Each Advanced Fungal Mimic Collective Swarm would be CR 6. Each of them could operate as an independent Mimic Swarm as needed, but they could combine to form larger and larger Collective Mimics. Each additional Mimic Swarm added to the Collective would increase its CR by +1 and its HD by +2. Sticking with the CR 15 limit for most Forge creatures, I would say that no more than 10 Mimic Swarms could combine to form a single CR 15, 22 HD Collective Mimic.

It's not exactly a Shoggoth, but it's still pretty impressive. The Mimic Swarms would retain their ability to mimic objects, too, so a door, chest, couch, etc., could suddenly burst apart into a Swarm composed of tens of thousands of micro-Mimics.
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...I'm pretty sure introducing these things to the world will get Viserys a job offer hand delivered by big red's secretary. :V

It's almost too bad that we have high grade divination protections on the place. Just imagine some infiltrators trying to work out the defenses on the palace and getting one of those vague diviner's riddles that parses out to "tens of thousands of mimics".
Duesal said:
Will they eat each other? The mini Great Whites especially. Not exactly the most restrained animals.
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It's a tank full of miniature sharks; as long as they get a magister or two every once in a while I'm pretty sure they'll naturally start cooperating. The trick is maintaining a stable population of traitors to feed them without risking rebellion.
 
Rovos said:
i say Stick Glyra and Mealor with some additional backup like Rina on a romp through the riverlands to hover up some of those wildfey
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I violently disagree with the notion of assigning Rina off the Key to Madness, since it is a pretty damn big priority to get that Court to swear to us.
And she's the only researcher we have with a good 'Fey'-narrative to her.

I don't mind rounding up the courtless Fey and putting them in re-education centres, but it is best to either:
a) see who we'll have free after Reconquest-planning is done
b) do that after Reconquest

Maelor and Glyra both are viable combat assets we might want to use to quell rebellious lords instead.

Goldfish said:
We would need to develop the Creature Swarm and Collective Creature templates to make this work.
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Okay then, putting Elaheh on that, @Azel.
 
Tomcost said:
Hmmm.

Want to have a water tank with specifically deep ocean things? I mean, lots of bioluminiscent stuff and things like Faceless whales
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DragonParadox said:
You could fo one better and include beings from the lightless places of the Plane of Water too
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I'm a fan, that sounds great. We can even enchant the tank so the inside is dark enough for the bioluminescence to show off.
 
So I've been rolling the realm actions and I just hit the first crit fail and it's... well not catastrophic, but the kind of thing that has to generate a vote so I might post the first part of the report today just to get that vote settled before moving on
 
Assuming our deep sea tank is 50m x 25m x 10m (about 4 olympic swimming pools stacked over each other), then it's surface area is 4,000m^2.

The pressure exerted by 1m of water is equal to it's weight, so per meter of depth we simulate, we need 1 ton of weight per square meter, meaning 4,000 tons of weight need to rest on that pool to simulate one meter of depth. Assuming we want to simulate a depth of 2000m (deep sea), we need 8,000,000 tons of weight.

Basalt clocks in at about 3 tons per cubic metre, so we need, assuming some friction losses, about 2,700,000 m^3 of Basalt pressing down on that pool. That's a lot.

However...

Creater Greater Demiplane creater 20x 10ft cubes per CL of extraplanar space, meaning 540 m^3 per CL. The Demiplane can also have it's gravity doubled, making it effectively 1,080 m^3 per CL. That means we need 2,500 CL of Create Greater Demiplane to make the tank. That's 125 castings at CL 20, so by abusing Mythic power, Miracle and bribing Aife to help, it should be doable in a week.
 
Azel said:
Assuming our deep sea tank is 50m x 25m x 10m (about 4 olympic swimming pools stacked over each other), then it's surface area is 4,000m^2.

The pressure exerted by 1m of water is equal to it's weight, so per meter of depth we simulate, we need 1 ton of weight per square meter, meaning 4,000 tons of weight need to rest on that pool to simulate one meter of depth. Assuming we want to simulate a depth of 2000m (deep sea), we need 8,000,000 tons of weight.

Basalt clocks in at about 3 tons per cubic metre, so we need, assuming some friction losses, about 2,700,000 m^3 of Basalt pressing down on that pool. That's a lot.

However...

Creater Greater Demiplane creater 20x 10ft cubes per CL of extraplanar space, meaning 540 m^3 per CL. The Demiplane can also have it's gravity doubled, making it effectively 1,080 m^3 per CL. That means we need 2,500 CL of Create Greater Demiplane to make the tank. That's 125 castings at CL 20, so by abusing Mythic power, Miracle and bribing Aife to help, it should be doable in a week.
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There is probably a cheaper way to enchant it regularly. Like the way that Planar Pressure works on the Plane of Water, where light decreases it, and darkness increases it.
 
Tomcost said:
There is probably a cheaper way to enchant it regularly. Like the way that Planar Pressure works on the Plane of Water, where light decreases it, and darkness increases it.
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Unlikely that we can replicate that effect and I was specifically looking for a way to do it without dedicated research.

We can cut down on the cost by decreasing the pressure to 1000m, halving width and length of the pool, and thus only need 1/8th of that, namely 15.625 castings.
 
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