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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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One more house in the bag. There are few remaining to go, actually.

We have flipped most of them everywhere excluding the Westerlands and the Vale
 
DragonParadox said:
OOC: A bit of a character piece for Rhaella, she is a kind person and more moral than many in Viserys' inner circle, but at the end of the day she is also the former queen of Westeros. She is not going to go run off to write wrongs like a knight errand to the determent of her actual task, even when they hit close to home. Not yet edited.
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Has she internalized that she could though?

I mean, does she understand that in her situation right now, it would take a short report to get some lord she dislikes replaced by his son?
While Viserys can deal with unpleasant people until they are under his law and only then hold them accountable for future crimes, he wouldn't hesitate even for a second to let his mother do what she thought was best to some minor lord.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Has she internalized that she could though?

I mean, does she understand that in her situation right now, it would take a short report to get some lord she dislikes replaced by his son?
While Viserys can deal with unpleasant people until they are under his law and only then hold them accountable for future crimes, he wouldn't hesitate even for a second to let his mother do what she thought was best to some minor lord.
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He's not really minor, he's a direct vassal of Hiighgarden, a count. While that would not deter Viserys is Rhaella asked it would still be a lot more trouble than it's worth to remove him.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Has she internalized that she could though?

I mean, does she understand that in her situation right now, it would take a short report to get some lord she dislikes replaced by his son?
While Viserys can deal with unpleasant people until they are under his law and only then hold them accountable for future crimes, he wouldn't hesitate even for a second to let his mother do what she thought was best to some minor lord.
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This kind of internal monologue and thinking merely outlines that Rhaella approves of Viserys' patience with systematic reform and management of the excesses of the social elite, rather than misguided attempts to kill Lords for the sake of righting one injustice when it isn't necessary and you are already thinking about all of the other young men and women you are going to save from sexual misconduct in the future as opposed to the present where there will always be many more people currently being abused, and 'righting the wrong' in front of your eyes won't change that. Only completely changing the rules will.
 
Crake said:
This kind of internal monologue and thinking merely outlines that Rhaella approves of Viserys' patience with systematic reform and management of the excesses of the social elite, rather than misguided attempts to kill Lords for the sake of righting one injustice when it isn't necessary and you are already thinking about all of the other young men and women you are going to save from sexual misconduct in the future as opposed to the present where there will always be many more people currently being abused, and 'righting the wrong' in front of your eyes won't change that. Only completely changing the rules will.
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You can do both though.

I see that in cases that matter, like Roose Bolton, allowences can be made until they are officially under imperial law.
But his guy can be replaced without really depriving our cause of anything of value.
 
Artemis1992 said:
You can do both though.

I see that in cases that matter, like Roose Bolton, allowences can be made until they are officially under imperial law.
But his guy can be replaced without really depriving our cause of anything of value.
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It's a distraction with a minor chance of going really wrong.

I think this reads into @DragonParadox's own interpretation of the characters of not only Rhaella, but Elia, and other figures in our court who aren't exactly the extreme decision makers but rather have more of a outsider's perspective of our policies and actions and lower levels of responsibilities. Just getting in the habit of killing people because they are inconvenient or distasteful rubs them the wrong way for personal and moral reasons. A desire for justice and fair judgement isn't the same as a desire for blood for the same misdeeds.

Viserys could make a snap judgement to kill someone because they are in his way and they don't generally fill in the blindspot he has regarding people who are mostly innocent but just in an unfortunate position to be in our path to something. Rhaella wouldn't, because she got a front row seat to Aerys executing everyone, everyone, innocent or guilty, in the most horrifying way possible. For years.
 
So, assuming we let a battle happen in the crownlands on purpose to get rid of Baratheon-aligned houses, what are we planning for the Westerlands, where it might be that Lanna and Gerion just flip and removing the old gold-shitter is enough to pacify the whole place?
 
DragonParadox said:
A Bitter Bargain ​

Seventeenth Day of the First Month 294 AC

Rolph Caswell was a man Rhaella recalled quite well from her girlhood. Born as second son and raised at court, he had been charming and well mannered, skillful enough with a lance to be noted and only about five years her elder. He was the kind of knight her attendants would pose sly questions about, expecting perhaps some suitably tragic sighs over curling auburn locks.

Personally, Rhaella thought the man was a little too aware of sighing maidens and too fond of playing into those games for the thrill of it. She had quite enough performing to do as a princess of the Seven Kingdoms without adding to it in a bout of 'appropriate inappropriateness', especially given the rumors she had never been meant to overhear about how he approached more carnal trysts.

The highborn are for courting the lowborn for bedding, the sentiment was hardly unique, she would grant, but it was still distasteful for anyone to make use of their power over smallfolk like that, for there was without a doubt the threat of censure involved in any such coupling no matter how 'kind' the lord presumed to be. The former queen was quietly glad that neither of her sons were ever in the least bit inclined to such acts, though she could not claim to have raised Viserys for long enough to have instilled the value in him herself.

Setting aside the twinge of familiar pain, she looked over the streets of Bitterbridge from what the locals called Gate Hill. The keep loomed black on the Mander, with a commanding position of both the town and the bridge from which it took its name.

***​

A few hours later the man who entered the Blooming Lilly, the best of the town's inns, bore only passing resemblance to the knight of Rhaella's faded memories. His girth had increased threefold and his hair was less styled to impress passing maidens and more to hide encroaching baldness, but ultimately she hardly noticed that. She was here for a pledge of fealty, after all, not to negotiate a betrothal pact. What she did notice was the way some of the servers stiffened at his approach, one of them outright flinched. All the younger and prettier ones...

It looked as though Rolph Caswell had gotten worse as he aged, a concept she was sadly all too familiar with. Part of her wondered what her grim deathless guard thought of the matter, for she had no doubt those Hell-blessed eyes, ever looking for assassins or other threats, had caught the same byplay. Did they hold some small measure of contempt for cruelties unspoken or was their disdain of most mortals too thick to count such things important?

Regardless of the answer, the envoy was doubly glad she had asked her guard to wear male guise so as not to stand out. She knew some lords presumed female warriors were willing to do more than fight for coin.

Still, if life at court had taught her one lesson above ell else, it was that one was not required to like one's allies, but merely to tolerate them. Perhaps his son would be more tolerable once he ascended. Rhaella was growing increasingly aware that she would outlive her generation, likely by more years than she was entirely comfortable contemplating.

"Your Grace, such a wonder to see the rumors about you were true," the lord said with a too-familiar charming smile. "What brings you to Bitterbridge this fine day?"

"Fair is the day but grave the news upon the wind..." Rhaella began.

Between the assurances that all the mages he had taken on would be granted the privileges of joining the Scholarum, news of Red Rolly's death in the east, and a hefty payment in gold which would go towards warding his keep, which seemed to be his current interest, the lord's fealty was secured.

Lost 10,000 IM

Rhaella tried not to allow her gaze to linger too long upon the dark haired young woman who seemed to have caught Lord Caswell's eye. At least once Westeros was taken back for the crown, she would have some recourse in the courts not beholden to her lord. It was the sort of thing her grandfather had died for, but even Aegon the Fifth had learned upon his ascension that such things were best championed in law rather than heroism. There would never be enough heroes for the latter.

OOC: A bit of a character piece for Rhaella, she is a kind person and more moral than many in Viserys' inner circle, but at the end of the day she is also the former queen of Westeros. She is not going to go run off to right wrongs like a knight errant to the determent of her actual task, even when they hit close to home. Not yet edited.
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Here's an edited version of the chapter, DP.

This was another nice character piece for Rhaella. I always enjoy her recollections of her youth. They're a nice window into the state of the royal court of Westeros before things went to shit.

I would feel sorry for Rolph if he hadn't turned out to be such a bastard. Way to live down to the stereotype, Mr. Caswell.
 
Crake said:
Just getting in the habit of killing people because they are inconvenient or distasteful rubs them the wrong way for personal and moral reasons. A desire for justice and fair judgement isn't the same as a desire for blood for the same misdeeds.
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I mean, I wouldn't see Rhaella do that as a snap judgement either. But after checking via Divination if he crossed lines between coercion and rape, she could make a judgement.
She most definitly has that authority while acting as our leading agent in an operation like this, particularly since Westeros right now does not stand under any law we would recognise.

But regardless, my first question was not in the expectation that she would actually kill him. I just wanted to know if she realized how easily she could. Even not being any particularly great sorcerer, she holds a lot more power now than she ever did as Queen of Westeros, something she should at least be aware of, even if she makes the decision not to use this power.

I do not particularly care about him, and I'm actually perfectly fine to give him a chance to change his behaviour once we are the law. Just kinda got into arguing for something besides my actual point, sorry.
 
DragonParadox said:
In that sense yes, she is very much aware she can kill him dead where he stands, potentially without being at all harmed herself, even without counting the devils and bio-arcane horror guarding her.
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That's nice too.
I also meant in the larger picture, with Viserys shrugging and taking her word for it, not just the physical sense.
In a way, she is the only person outside of the companions who has this basic "do what you think is best" carte blanche. Maybe Alinor as well.
 
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It doesn't hurt that post-conquest, Rolph and those lords like him will rapidly find their unofficial 'privileges' revoked. The law will come down on these tools like the claws of an angry Dragon should their behavior continue.
 
Goldfish said:
It doesn't hurt that post-conquest, Rolph and those lords like him will rapidly find their unofficial 'privileges' revoked. The law will come down on these tools like the claws of an angry Dragon should their behavior continue.
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It's less than having privileges in this case and more the smallfolk not having rights. For instance smallfolk can't under the current law bear witness against a noble which makes signaling any sort of abuse all but impossible.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Jun 7, 2020 at 2:38 PM, finished with 47 posts and 12 votes.
  • [X] Accept Valaena may stay, potentially into next month if the assassin is not caught before then
    -[X] This is on the condition that she first return to Sorcerer's Deep for a couple days to receive various equipment upgrades to increase her effectiveness and chances of survival against the assassin if they move against her.
    [X] Refuse, she and Dawnfyre can do more good elsewhere
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Why kill when mind rape is a spell. Lets warp his personality where he atones for his sins for the rest of his lives.
 
[X] Accept Valaena may stay, potentially into next month if the assassin is not caught before then
-[X] This is on the condition that she first return to Sorcerer's Deep for a couple days to receive various equipment upgrades to increase her effectiveness and chances of survival against the assassin if they move against her.
 
Acolyte said:
Why kill when mind rape is a spell. Lets warp his personality where he atones for his sins for the rest of his lives.
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Because that's really fucked up? Mind rape has that name for a reason, it's a profound violation that is too excessively cruel to be a punishment for anything. Justice isn't served by vengeance; if he can't be stopped by imprisonment and reform programs then just kill him and be done with it. The law acts to stop crime and help make things right, not inflict pain for the sake of emotional satisfaction. If you want to see what that does to a society that indulges in it then look no further than the Efreeti.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Because that's really fucked up? Mind rape has that name for a reason, it's a profound violation that is too excessively cruel to be a punishment for anything. Justice isn't served by vengeance; if he can't be stopped by imprisonment and reform programs then just kill him and be done with it. The law acts to stop crime and help make things right, not inflict pain for the sake of emotional satisfaction. If you want to see what that does to a society that indulges in it then look no further than the Efreeti.
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Is it more fucked up than death if the person is evil enough that death probably means the Lower Planes? Because those places are real fucked up. Also, mind controlling someone into a new person who can't be blamed for the crimes of their previous self isn't actually emotionally satisfying, that's why the Efreeti prefer old fashioned torture.

My personal ranking of punishment morality is rehabilitation, then death that keeps the soul away from the lower planes, then mind control, then regular death, then torture.
 
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065tdsa said:
Is it more fucked up than death if the person is evil enough that death probably means The Abyss? Because the Abyss is real fucked up.
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There is a difference between what you order directly and what happens "naturally"; we can hardly take responsibility for the entire world. We should do what we can to avoid stuff like that, but unless you think we should soul gem anyone we execute then the Abyss will have to keep until we have the Imperial deity set up.
 
BronzeTongue said:
There is a difference between what you order directly and what happens "naturally"; we can hardly take responsibility for the entire world.
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Not when you know for a fact what will naturally happen. If you know what afterlife the person is going to then claiming you are not responsible for what will happen after you send them there is just incorrect.
 
Acolyte said:
Why kill when mind rape is a spell. Lets warp his personality where he atones for his sins for the rest of his lives.
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Although we've discussed that spell multiple times over the years, we've never actually used it, and I would prefer it that way. Actually, I would prefer that it didn't exist in the setting at all. It's a really fucked up spell. It would be less cruel to simply kill most beings rather than use the spell to reprogram them.
065tdsa said:
Is it more fucked up than death if the person is evil enough that death probably means The Abyss? Because the Abyss is real fucked up.
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Just because something has been reprogrammed to be "Good", or at least not a malignancy upon the face of reality, doesn't mean it's past deeds don't already condemn it to the Abyss. I think it might be worse for such a creature, since they're now Good but are going to end up in the Abyss anyway. DP has long since ruled that spells like Atonement don't exist in this setting, so I doubt the Alignment-altering properties of Mind Rape would be any more allowed to affect a being's ultimate fate.
 
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