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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Duesal said:
If a Griffin Knight is selected we could beef up the Griffin as well. 🤔
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Slap a Muleback Cords effect on their saddles to increase their effective Strength by +8 for the purposes of carrying weight (Praetorians are at least 40 pounds heavier than normal), give them some Valyrian Steel spurs, and maybe a Dexterity and Constitution booster, and they would be ready to rock and roll.
 
@Goldfish Griffon Knights are a ribbon unit. They are purely a old boys style club for people who are expected to engage in, what it will be in a couple of centuries, outmoded chivalric ritual combat and social conduct, in exchange for prestige and preference in deployment barring extenuating circumstances.

It's purely a place for spare noble scions to congregate and rub elbows with the other martial elite without having to give them positions that are otherwise assigned purely based on merit.

It's also a pet project of Waymar to reform knighthood by example.

I happen to agree that magi-tech transportation of troops is the future and military necessity. Mounted units are niche irregulars.
 
Azel said:
I'm personally not seeing griffons in any real military operation. They are much slower and require more maintenance then a small Anti-Grav transport.
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They're as much a propaganda tool as they are a combat unit, IMO. Patrolling Griffon Knights can cover a large area while being seen to do so by the populace at large.

It helps that the Griffons are intelligent and can attack on their own without being directed by their rider or requiring special training. A single unit can effectively become two attackers as needed.
 
Azel said:
I'm personally not seeing griffons in any real military operation. They are much slower and require more maintenance then a small Anti-Grav transport.
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Yeah, they have been mostly for doing patrols in the Imperium and as a way to wrangle the nobles. They don't hold a candle to Wyverns or Moonchasers.
 
Do super-soldiers have super-kids? Is that something we should be concerned about? Also if we let them go back to regular life what happens if they break to law? Whose equipped to bring them in?
 
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Angelazreal1 said:
So super-soldiers have super-kids? Is that something we should be concerned about?
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Not at all. We have plenty of powerful vassals who in turn have naturally powerful children. The most blatant example of this is Relath. He's got a harem in Tolos and has I don't even know how many halfdragon children.

That said, as Goldfish points out above, I don't think these augmentations are inheritable.
 
Angelazreal1 said:
So super-soldiers have super-kids? Is that something we should be concerned about?
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The process likely renders them sterile. The implants aren't hereditary, it literally takes giant flesh pods to grow them in, which no woman would have the capacity to grow.

If they aren't sterile, they might have babies slightly more magical than others due to the arcane energies flooding their bodies.
 
DragonParadox said:
They do require less maintenance. As long as there is some kind of prey for them to hunt in the general vicinity they can stay deployed practically indefinitely.

So good for isolated deployments maybe.
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AG-Vessels don't need fuel or anything at all, just some maintenance and they can get that hundreds of klicks away in a military base.

I mean, they are not useless and have some important social and propaganda functions, but cavalry is something that disappears when mechanized mass warfare comes knocking. A Wyvern with Beetle Bombs can kill a Griffon with the later being physically incapable of retaliating. The Manticores are the same.
 
Smartphone said:
[X] Azel

Out of curiosity how much do fully geared Praetorians cost?
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A Praetorian Initiate has the following gear. It will cost 2,858 IM in enchantments, plus 105 pounds of Valyrian Steel to equip each one of them.

All in all, a very reasonable expense considering how much it will improve each Praetorian's performance. A lot of expense is avoided thanks to the attribute Enhancement bonuses Praetorians benefit from by default, so we don't have to give them attribute booster.
Equipment:
Amulet of the Stalwart Defender:
  • 3 Charges/Day: 1 Charge (12 Temporary Hit Points), 2 Charges (18 Temporary Hit Points), 3 Charges (24 Temporary Hit Points), Duration: 10 minutes
Earring of Vigilance:
  • 3 Charges/Day: 1 Charge (Darkvision 60 ft., 1 hour), 2 Charges (See Invisibility, 10 minutes), 3 Charges (True Seeing, 1 minute)
Praetorian's Backpack: This high quality black leather backpack is emblazoned with the Praetorian crest.
  1. It has two side pouches, each of which appears large enough to hold about a quart of material. In fact, each is like a Bag of Holding and can actually hold material of as much as 2 cubic feet in volume or 20 pounds in weight. The large central portion of the pack can contain up to 8 cubic feet or 80 pounds of material. Even when so filled, the backpack always weighs only 5 pounds.
  2. While such storage is useful enough, the pack has an even greater power. When the wearer reaches into it for a specific item, that item is always on top. Thus, no digging around and fumbling is ever necessary to find what the pack contains. Retrieving any specific item from the pack is a Move Action, but it does not provoke the Attacks of Opportunity that retrieving a stored item usually does.
Praetorian's Belt:
  1. Healing (3 charges/day): 1 charge (Heal 2d8 points of damage), 2 charges (Heal 3d8), or 3 charges(Heal 4d8)
  2. 3/Day use Enlarge Person(self only) as a Swift Action for up to 10 rounds per day. The effect can be dismissed as a Free Action.
Praetorian's Boots:
  1. Benefit from a +30ft Enhancement bonus to ground movement speed.
  2. 2/Day Instantly teleport as per a short dimensional hop (with no chance of error) up to 10 feet. The new space must be within line of sight and line of effect. One cannot use the anklet to move into a space occupied by another creature, nor can one teleport into a solid object; if such an attempt is made, the anklet's activation is wasted. The Wearer can bring along objects weighing up to your maximum load, but you can't bring another creature with you.
Praetorian's Bracers of Quickstrike:
  1. 1/Day you can make one extra attack with any weapon you are holding if you already made a full attack on this turn. This attack is made at your full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. This effect is not cumulative with any other effect that grants you an extra attack when making a full attack, such as the Rapid Shot feat, a speed weapon, or the haste spell.
Praetorian's Cloak: +1 Resistance bonus to Saving Throws

Praetorian's Regalia:
  • Razorsharp Valyrian Steel Praetorian Blade(+2): Damage: 2d8 + 1 + 2 [Enhancement] (Piercing), 18-20/x2, Weight: 25 pounds
  • Fearsome Valyrian Steel Extreme Shield (+2): Armor Bonus: 3 + 2[Enhancement], AC Penalty: -4, ASF: 10%, Weight: 25 pounds. Fearsome: +5 to Intimidate [Enhancement], can demoralize foe as Move action
  • Reinforced Segmented Valyrian Steel Fullplate of the Commander (+2): Armor Bonus: 8 + 1[Reinforced] + 2[Enhancement], Maximum Dexterity Bonus: +2, ASF: 30%, Base Speed: 20ft, Weight: 55 pounds. Special: Commander (+2 competence bonus on Diplomacy checks, and each ally within 30 feet of you (not including yourself) gains a +1 morale bonus on Will saves, -5 penalty to Hide checks)
Other Equipment: Ring of Protection from Evil, Ring of Sustenance, Traveler's Any-Tool
 
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Smartphone said:
[X] Azel

Out of curiosity how much do fully geared Praetorians cost?
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40 Ibs of Adamantine, 4,500 IM in reagents 105 Ibs for their VS weapons and armor, and I forget how much for the rest of their gear, but yeah. In relative terms, you could probably expect the average fully trained Praetorian to cost 10,000 IM to create, train and equip, with heroes probably having the WBL of an equivalent PC.


That goes up significantly if we try equipping the fully trained ones with Construct armor.

So it's a pretty big resource investment, but as they are fighting on the front lines, we will quickly gain a core group of elites. It's a pretty nice stop-gap that only costs us money. Being able to just forge Outsiders is obviously better, but that's being a different kind of rich altogether.

Edit: So it's around 7,368 IM, 40 Ibs of Adamantine and 105 Ibs of VS.
 
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Goldfish said:
A Praetorian Initiate has the following gear. It will cost 2,858 IM in enchantments, plus 105 pounds of Valyrian Steel to equip each one of them.

All in all, a very reasonable expense considering how much it will improve each Praetorian's performance. A lot of expense is avoided thanks to the attribute Enhancement bonuses Praetorians benefit from by default, so we don't have to give them attribute booster.
Equipment:
Amulet of the Stalwart Defender:
  • 3 Charges/Day: 1 Charge (12 Temporary Hit Points), 2 Charges (18 Temporary Hit Points), 3 Charges (24 Temporary Hit Points), Duration: 10 minutes
Earring of Vigilance:
  • 3 Charges/Day: 1 Charge (Darkvision 60 ft., 1 hour), 2 Charges (See Invisibility, 10 minutes), 3 Charges (True Seeing, 1 minute)
Praetorian's Backpack: This high quality black leather backpack is emblazoned with the Praetorian crest.
  1. It has two side pouches, each of which appears large enough to hold about a quart of material. In fact, each is like a Bag of Holding and can actually hold material of as much as 2 cubic feet in volume or 20 pounds in weight. The large central portion of the pack can contain up to 8 cubic feet or 80 pounds of material. Even when so filled, the backpack always weighs only 5 pounds.
  2. While such storage is useful enough, the pack has an even greater power. When the wearer reaches into it for a specific item, that item is always on top. Thus, no digging around and fumbling is ever necessary to find what the pack contains. Retrieving any specific item from the pack is a Move Action, but it does not provoke the Attacks of Opportunity that retrieving a stored item usually does.
Praetorian's Belt:
  1. Use Enlarge Person(self only) as a Standard Action for 10 rounds at will.
  2. Healing (3 charges/day): 1 charge (Heal 2d8 points of damage), 2 charges (Heal 3d8), or 3 charges(Heal 4d8)
Praetorian's Boots:
  1. Benefit from a +30ft Enhancement bonus to ground movement speed.
  2. 2/Day Instantly teleport as per a short dimensional hop (with no chance of error) up to 10 feet. The new space must be within line of sight and line of effect. One cannot use the anklet to move into a space occupied by another creature, nor can one teleport into a solid object; if such an attempt is made, the anklet's activation is wasted. The Wearer can bring along objects weighing up to your maximum load, but you can't bring another creature with you.
Praetorian's Bracers of Quickstrike:
  1. 1/Day you can make one extra attack with any weapon you are holding if you already made a full attack on this turn. This attack is made at your full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. This effect is not cumulative with any other effect that grants you an extra attack when making a full attack, such as the Rapid Shot feat, a speed weapon, or the haste spell.
Praetorian's Cloak: +1 Resistance bonus to Saving Throws

Praetorian's Regalia:
  • Razorsharp Valyrian Steel Praetorian Blade(+2): Damage: 2d8 + 1 + 2 [Enhancement] (Piercing), 18-20/x2, Weight: 25 pounds
  • Fearsome Valyrian Steel Extreme Shield (+2): Armor Bonus: 3 + 2[Enhancement], AC Penalty: -4, ASF: 10%, Weight: 25 pounds. Fearsome: +5 to Intimidate [Enhancement], can demoralize foe as Move action
  • Reinforced Segmented Valyrian Steel Fullplate of the Commander (+2): Armor Bonus: 8 + 1[Reinforced] + 2[Enhancement], Maximum Dexterity Bonus: +2, ASF: 30%, Base Speed: 20ft, Weight: 55 pounds. Special: Commander (+2 competence bonus on Diplomacy checks, and each ally within 30 feet of you (not including yourself) gains a +1 morale bonus on Will saves, -5 penalty to Hide checks)
Other Equipment: Ring of Protection from Evil, Ring of Sustenance, Traveler's Any-Tool
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It'll all be Imperial Steel, too. So not even ghosts will be safe. :evil:
 
Crake said:
40 Ibs of Adamantine, 4,500 IM in reagents 105 Ibs for their VS weapons and armor, and I forget how much for the rest of their gear, but yeah. In relative terms, you could probably expect the average fully trained Praetorian to cost 10,000 IM to create, train and equip, with heroes probably having the WBL of an equivalent PC.


That goes up significantly if we try equipping the fully trained ones with Construct armor.

So it's a pretty big resource investment, but as they are fighting on the front lines, we will quickly gain a core group of elites. It's a pretty nice stop-gap that only costs us money. Being able to just forge Outsiders is obviously better, but that's being a different kind of rich altogether.
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Mind you that a level 6 Praetori in full Titan armor could trade blows with a Pit Fiend for a few rounds. He definitely wouldn't win that fight, but being able to even delay a de facto demigod, that can't be arsed to leave the house for anything less then slaughtering whole nations? That's quite an achievement already.
 
@Azel, I just noticed that the info for the Praetorian's belts is out of date. We decided a while back that the Enlarge Person effect was much too powerful to be an At-Will effect for just 300 IM, so with DP's approval it was changed from:
Use Enlarge Person(self only) as a Standard Action for 10 rounds at will.
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to this:
3/Day use Enlarge Person(self only) as a Swift Action for up to 10 rounds per day. The effect can be dismissed as a Free Action.
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You might want to update it in your Praetorian info post.
 
Azel said:
Mind you that a level 6 Praetori in full Titan armor could trade blows with a Pit Fiend for a few rounds. He definitely wouldn't win that fight, but being able to even delay a de facto demigod, that can't be arsed to leave the house for anything less then slaughtering whole nations? That's quite an achievement already.
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What about against a Cornugon? :V
 
Crake said:
40 Ibs of Adamantine, 4,500 IM in reagents 105 Ibs for their VS weapons and armor, and I forget how much for the rest of their gear, but yeah. In relative terms, you could probably expect the average fully trained Praetorian to cost 10,000 IM to create, train and equip, with heroes probably having the WBL of an equivalent PC.


That goes up significantly if we try equipping the fully trained ones with Construct armor.

So it's a pretty big resource investment, but as they are fighting on the front lines, we will quickly gain a core group of elites. It's a pretty nice stop-gap that only costs us money. Being able to just forge Outsiders is obviously better, but that's being a different kind of rich altogether.

Edit: So it's around 7,368 IM, 40 Ibs of Adamantine and 105 Ibs of VS.
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At 60 IM per pound of Adamantine, that brings the total up to 9,768 IM.

So your 10,000 IM estimate, including training and other incidentals, is actually fairly spot on.
 
Goldfish said:
At 60 IM per pound of Adamantine, that brings the total up to 9,768 IM.

So your 10,000 IM estimate, including training and other incidentals, is actually fairly spot on.
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Considering that we also need some money for Divinations, a few people to do the vetting and some alchemical knick-knacks, we might as well round it up to 10,000 IM for easier bookkeeping.
 
Azel said:
Considering that we also need some money for Divinations, a few people to do the vetting and some alchemical knick-knacks, we might as well round it up to 10,000 IM for easier bookkeeping.
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Oh yeah, we've got all sorts of useful Alchemical goodies we can give them, too. Their Handy Haversack backpacks give them plenty of easy carrying capacity. I wouldn't even bother counting that as part of equipping them, though, at least not for cost tracking purposes. This is all stuff we're stockpiling anyway.

When I get back to my computer, I'll put together a standard Alchemical gear package for them.
 
Goldfish said:
Oh yeah, we've got all sorts of useful Alchemical goodies we can give them, too. Their Handy Haversack backpacks give them plenty of easy carrying capacity. I wouldn't even bother counting that as part of equipping them, though, at least not for cost tracking purposes. This is all stuff we're stockpiling anyway.

When I get back to my computer, I'll put together a standard Alchemical gear package for them.
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Make sure to include some breaching charges.

Also, did we give them Launchers yet?
 
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