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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Azel said:
I wasn't thinking about making Living Brass, but recreating the process used by Yss to digest souls to funnel power into the Imperial Pseudo-Deity. Clean dissolution and harvesting of energy instead of grinding fragments into a material to empower it.
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I really want to figure out how to use sacrifices and convert them into bottled XP (not for leveling up) for the express purpose of using it to power spells that cost XP. For example, having 10,000 XP handy in case Viserys is ever forced to use a full Miracle. I'd really rather not use our own soulpower for that.
 
Don't forget to vote, ya'll.

[X] Crake
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on May 9, 2020 at 9:38 AM, finished with 43 posts and 7 votes.
  • [X] Waymar, Vee, Tyene and Xor
    -[X] Viserys to Waymar: "Some advice, friend. If you don't stop rescuing maidens now, you'll end up with a castle full of them. I should know, seeing as how I have this problem myself..."
    [X] Malarys Level Up
    -[X] Class: +1 Seeker of Law
    -[X] Skills (8 points): +1 Bluff, +1 Concentration, +1 Diplomacy, +1 Knowledge (Law), +1 Sense Motive, +1 Spellcraft, +2 Knowledge (Religion)
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Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on May 9, 2020 at 9:38 AM, finished with 43 posts and 7 votes.
  • [X] Waymar, Vee, Tyene and Xor
    -[X] Viserys to Waymar: "Some advice, friend. If you don't stop rescuing maidens now, you'll end up with a castle full of them. I should know, seeing as how I have this problem myself..."
    [X] Malarys Level Up
    -[X] Class: +1 Seeker of Law
    -[X] Skills (8 points): +1 Bluff, +1 Concentration, +1 Diplomacy, +1 Knowledge (Law), +1 Sense Motive, +1 Spellcraft, +2 Knowledge (Religion)
Click to expand...
 
Duesal said:
I really want to figure out how to use sacrifices and convert them into bottled XP (not for leveling up) for the express purpose of using it to power spells that cost XP. For example, having 10,000 XP handy in case Viserys is ever forced to use a full Miracle. I'd really rather not use our own soulpower for that.
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That too, but I'm also eyeing to make some outsiders. Take a stalwart Legionnaire who fell in battle and give him a nice smoothie made out of a few Thanadaemons. Better then steroids.
 
Azel said:
I wasn't thinking about making Living Brass, but recreating the process used by Yss to digest souls to funnel power into the Imperial Pseudo-Deity. Clean dissolution and harvesting of energy instead of grinding fragments into a material to empower it.
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That's fair enough I suppose; as a punishment it's effectively the DnD equivalent of an actual death penalty. However, using the design process as a punishment is beyond the pale.

Being a monster isn't a good reason to make someone sit in a series of experimental electric chairs until one finally kills them, especially since we can use things that don't have minds but do have perfectly good souls as test subjects.
 
BronzeTongue said:
That's fair enough I suppose; as a punishment it's effectively the DnD equivalent of an actual death penalty. However, using the design process as a punishment is beyond the pale.

Being a monster isn't a good reason to make someone sit in a series of experimental electric chairs until one finally kills them, especially since we can use things that don't have minds but do have perfectly good souls as test subjects.
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Men like Crastor who repeatedly sacrifice their infant sons to the Void and rape their daughters have more than earned it, IMO. There are monsters deserving of this sort of punishment.
 
BronzeTongue said:
That's fair enough I suppose; as a punishment it's effectively the DnD equivalent of an actual death penalty. However, using the design process as a punishment is beyond the pale.

Being a monster isn't a good reason to make someone sit in a series of experimental electric chairs until one finally kills them, especially since we can use things that don't have minds but do have perfectly good souls as test subjects.
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You are making a lot of assumptions here.

First being that this is gratuitous torture, which fits into the pattern where you regularly assume stuff I propose to be comically hyper-Evil for shits and giggles. I do in fact not give a rats arse about Crasters comfort, but I'm still significantly offended by your implied accusations.

Second being that you somehow need to testfire an electric chair 50 times before it works. If this is how you design things, please be not offended if I stay the hell away from everything you ever made.

Lastly, if you want a functional afterlife, you need the means to recycle the souls of sentients. Heaven is so much more broken then the other two Upper Planes because they no longer can do this. Unlike Angels, Azatas, Guardinals and so on, who are in decline, Archons are a dying species.
 
Azel said:
You are making a lot of assumptions here.

First being that this is gratuitous torture, which fits into the pattern where you regularly assume stuff I propose to be comically hyper-Evil for shits and giggles. I do in fact not give a rats arse about Crasters comfort, but I'm still significantly offended by your implied accusations.

Second being that you somehow need to testfire an electric chair 50 times before it works. If this is how you design things, please be not offended if I stay the hell away from everything you ever made.

Lastly, if you want a functional afterlife, you need the means to recycle the souls of sentients. Heaven is so much more broken then the other two Upper Planes because they no longer can do this. Unlike Angels, Azatas, Guardinals and so on, who are in decline, Archons are a dying species.
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Wait. @Azel. I knew Archons are going extinct, but Angels and Azatas and Guardinals are still being made?

Also what happens to Lawful Good souls who don't get claimed by a god these days if they somehow make it to Heaven's Shore? What do they turn into?
 
Duesal said:
Wait. @Azel. I knew Archons are going extinct, but Angels and Azatas and Guardinals are still being made?

Also what happens to Lawful Good souls who don't get claimed by a god these days if they somehow make it to Heaven's Shore? What do they turn into?
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1. Unlike Heaven, these planes have no centralized means to convert souls. Paradise and Elysium have temples and local focal points of power that can do the same while Celestia had only that one garden at the summit.

2. Nothing. They stay petitioners until they die or go to another plane for conversion. This is why Heaven is selling slaves. Petitioners is the only renewable resource they got.
 
Azel said:
1. Unlike Heaven, these planes have no centralized means to convert souls. Paradise and Elysium have temples and local focal points of power that can do the same while Celestia had only that one garden at the summit.

2. Nothing. They stay petitioners until they die or go to another plane for conversion. This is why Heaven is selling slaves. Petitioners is the only renewable resource they got.
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And so lots and lots of slaves pass from Heaven's Shore to Nirvana and what's left of Elysium. I wonder how a Lawful Good soul gets pounded into a Chaotic Good outsider. 🤔
 
Azel said:
You are making a lot of assumptions here.

First being that this is gratuitous torture, which fits into the pattern where you regularly assume stuff I propose to be comically hyper-Evil for shits and giggles. I do in fact not give a rats arse about Crasters comfort, but I'm still significantly offended by your implied accusations.

Second being that you somehow need to testfire an electric chair 50 times before it works. If this is how you design things, please be not offended if I stay the hell away from everything you ever made.

Lastly, if you want a functional afterlife, you need the means to recycle the souls of sentients. Heaven is so much more broken then the other two Upper Planes because they no longer can do this. Unlike Angels, Azatas, Guardinals and so on, who are in decline, Archons are a dying species.
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I apologize for appearing to target you, I didn't realize I was coming off that way. In my defense, I don't really see how you can experimentally deconstruct a soul without it being hilariously awful the first few times you try it. It's not like we have a ton of lore on this specific topic, and honestly the first example that came to mind for non-deities trying something in this field was the mint. It might not be accurate, but that was the basis of my reaction, not anything about you in particular.

I've been trying to keep in mind the consequences of callousness and how it divides someone like Viserys from a pit fiend with good PR, but I seem to be pushing too hard. I'll back off a bit and try to be more tactful in the future.
 
Azel said:
I wasn't thinking about making Living Brass, but recreating the process used by Yss to digest souls to funnel power into the Imperial Pseudo-Deity. Clean dissolution and harvesting of energy instead of grinding fragments into a material to empower it.
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Let's be honest here, you were also thinking about Hell torturing divine energy out of people and using it to promote devils.

That process is propably the easiest to understand and work from when it comes to making and empowering outsiders.
 
Duesal said:
And so lots and lots of slaves pass from Heaven's Shore to Nirvana and what's left of Elysium. I wonder how a Lawful Good soul gets pounded into a Chaotic Good outsider. 🤔
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LSD, magic, and a really well made PowerPoint presentation with lots of subliminal messages included.

They bought the process from Xenu.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I apologize for appearing to target you, I didn't realize I was coming off that way. In my defense, I don't really see how you can experimentally deconstruct a soul without it being hilariously awful the first few times you try it. It's not like we have a ton of lore on this specific topic, and honestly the first example that came to mind for non-deities trying something in this field was the mint. It might not be accurate, but that was the basis of my reaction, not anything about you in particular.

I've been trying to keep in mind the consequences of callousness and how it divides someone like Viserys from a pit fiend with good PR, but I seem to be pushing too hard. I'll back off a bit and try to be more tactful in the future.
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First, Living Brass is not an accident that happened while trying to do something different. It's deliberately designed that way. It turns an abundant resource (slave souls) into a more valuable, scarcer resource (enchanting and weapon base material). That it's horrible torment is just a side effect. One that the Efreeti consider a fringe benefit since they love to be tremendous cockwaffles for the hell of it.

Second, you wouldn't try to work on a soul before knowing precisely what you want to do and having a set of steps that you expect to achieve that goal. That's just basic scientific rigor. This is of course no guarantee that it will work and odds are that the first few attempts go wrong in one way or another, but that's why you use people like Craster for whom that's an undesired but acceptable outcome, instead of upstanding Imperial citizens.

Lastly, we can and should feed any botched attempts to Yss for disposal anyway. You don't flush failed experiments down the toilet, but dispose them properly.
 
The three examples of something converting soul energy from one state to another are the following.

1) Yss slowly digesting it and converting it from its current state into Yss-type energy.
2) The Brass Mint, which shreds soul-stuff and then binds the fragments into a partially material, partially astral state. It doesn't convert the type of energy(? It might actually, I think it corrupts it at the same time with Evil alignment), but it does sort of mimic Outsider properties in the "body and soul in one" sense.
3) Devils torturing divine energy out of petitioners, probably in a faster and similar manner to teasing worship out of mortals over a long period of time (which is also re-typing a trickle of divine energy until it becomes "deity"-typed or "alignment"-typed.

Every other manner of conversion of soul-stuff we're peripherally aware of occurs naturally in rare locations across the planes and basically just to elementals.

All of the above provided examples other than the Wild magic fonts we've heard of aren't exactly pleasant ones.

Ergo, one could easily supposition even our fumbling attempts to create a new method would be highly destructive and gratuitously painful to our 'research materials'.

Comically evil is easy to attribute to an action when all other examples are "apex predator"-like at best, or clownishly villainous at worst.
 
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Artemis1992 said:
Let's be honest here, you were also thinking about Hell torturing divine energy out of people and using it to promote devils.

That process is propably the easiest to understand and work from when it comes to making and empowering outsiders.
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Unlike other people, I do consider torment as largely self-indulgent and not a cost free method to generate energy. You are still paying in public relations for doing things that way.

Hence me wanting a clean way to gainfully euthanize people for power.
 
Azel said:
Unlike other people, I do consider torment as largely self-indulgent and not a cost free method to generate energy. You are still paying in public relations for doing things that way.

Hence me wanting a clean way to gainfully euthanize people for power.
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I guess we'll have to see how to break down people into raw materials with the minimal amount of cost and effort.
 
One does wonder how much inertia you actually need to make "torture as the means of production" cost-free. It never seems as though Asmodeus has problems with fire-brand revolutionaries trying to seize the means of production in Baator, for example. No, he just has to worry about his political officers trying to replace him. :V
 
Crake said:
The three examples of something converting soul energy from one state to another are the following.

1) Yss slowly digesting it and converting it from its current state into Yss-type energy.
2) The Brass Mint, which shreds soul-stuff and then binds the fragments into a partially material, partially astral state. It doesn't convert the type of energy(? It might actually, I think it corrupts it at the same time with Evil alignment), but it does sort of mimic Outsider properties in the "body and soul in one" sense.
3) Devils torturing divine energy out of petitioners, probably in a faster and similar manner to teasing worship out of mortals over a long period of time (which is also re-typing a trickle of divine energy until it becomes "deity"-typed or "alignment"-typed.

Every other manner of conversion of soul-stuff we're peripherally aware of occurs naturally in rare locations across the planes and basically just to elementals.

All of the above provided examples other than the Wild magic fonts we've heard of aren't exactly pleasant ones.

Ergo, one could easily supposition even our fumbling attempts to create a new method would be highly destructive and gratuitously painful to our 'research materials'.

Comically evil is easy to attribute to an action when all other examples are "apex predator"-like at best, or clownishly villainous at worst.
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Other gods do the same, but slower then Yss digesting them. Their afterlives are also recycling sentient souls, just like the planes.

The Adamantine Forge in Axis did the same too, converting petitioners into Inevitables.

Also, two of your examples are people being dickwaffles for the sake of being dickwaffles. You are cherry picking examples.
 
Azel said:
Other gods do the same, but slower then Yss digesting them. Their afterlives are also recycling sentient souls, just like the planes.

The Adamantine Forge in Axis did the same too, converting petitioners into Inevitables.

Also, two of your examples are people being dickwaffles for the sake of being dickwaffles. You are cherry picking examples.
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As BronzeTongue pointed out, for the layman poster, we've seen THOSE examples on-screen before.

You are appealing to a mass of voters, half of which have only read the updates, not ancillary discussion or even know much about D&D.
 
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