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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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DragonParadox said:
Wow this was some nice overnight discussion. I'm glad the current vote proved engaging.

Guess separating the main turn from interludes really did work, I was worried that there would be issues when we did the time jump back, but judging from the lively conversation on politics that is really not the case.
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I personally think that the switching of perspectives greatly enhances the story itself, especially when dealing with complex events that have many hands touch them, while keeping them back to back massively improves the flow of events.

It feels also a lot less jarring then calling Viserys in on everything to micromanage it, solely due to PoV concerns. Making these choices / votes is what the pile of paperwork on his desk ultimaly is for, and itmakes for a more organic narrative to assume that minions do their own stuff and occasionally get orders from off-screen.

It also cuts down a lot on "as you know"-dialogue when switching places.

Just my two IM.
 
@Crake, since it's 10 to 9 and my vote is gaining steam, are you interested in cutting this short and switching with your delegates?
 
[X] Azel
Bowing to political pressure here is how the OJ gains an insane amount of legitimacy. 'Look at me, I have successfully handled and bound to us with familial ties the terrifying blood mage dragon emperor from the West! Would you not like someone with such a proven track record to lead you?'
 
Yeah, the thing is, the more I think about this the worse a bet Orange becomes. They are a pretty weak faction, their claim on the Mandate is the weakest and they are heavily suffering from infighting and Xue trying to become the power behind an isolated puppet emperor.

On the implicit question of what's in for Viserys if he backs them, the implied answer is to not make a person he apparently likes an outcast. That's literally all we stand to gain from any concessions we make. This matches well to Xue being quite powerful and arrogant, but doesn't make the offer any more compelling.

In contrast, tacitly backing Azure by simply not actively subverting his legitimacy gets us economic benefits from trade and an at least neutral relationship with the largest part of Yi-Ti. Decent returns for investing literally zero effort into the situation. Any other candidate would have to bid higher then this pay out to be even in the running.

Now, Yellow might be able to do it. Their claim isn't good, but decent and while they control little territory, they seem to have quite some power. If they don't eat too many babies and are willing to share lore and generally play ball, I could see us backing them in the future. But I'm not all that interested in entangling us here, so I'm not interested in seeking them out. I will listen though if they come to us with an offer.


Long story short, let's grab the god-corpse and the 5m sedimentary layer of powdered collateral damage, then skedaddle. Potentially with new minions in tow.
 
[X] Azel

Yeah. I don't mind Orange, and I would have liked him being able to deal with supernatural shit in his territory better, ergo, trying to share lore through Ning.

But ultimately, it just isn't worth it in this moment.
So, whatever.

If we can get her out of this political mess, I'm considering this a win.
 
The orange guy has the benefit of being a competent military leader, which could be very important in thee near future.
By the way @Azel, where did we see that Orange was weaker? I thought he was militarily stronger, actually.

I don't want to undermine him just yet, and do want to point him at real enemies if we can't ally with him.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
The orange guy has the benefit of being a competent military leader, which could be very important in thee near future.
By the way @Azel, where did we see that Orange was weaker? I thought he was militarily stronger, actually.

I don't want to undermine him just yet, and do want to point him at real enemies if we can't ally with him.
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He holds not all that much land and has a much smaller population and tax base to throw around then Azure. At least that the impression I'm left with and it matches to the fact that he is holding the interior and northern steppes, as opposed to the rich trade cities on the coast. He also has significant problems to get external trade going due to geography.

He might have an military edge, but if he can't bring that to bear, he will loose the economic battle. And since he hasn't been able to do so for quite a while, I consider him clearly weaker.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
The orange guy has the benefit of being a competent military leader, which could be very important in thee near future.
By the way @Azel, where did we see that Orange was weaker? I thought he was militarily stronger, actually.

I don't want to undermine him just yet, and do want to point him at real enemies if we can't ally with him.
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He was weak enough that he allowed the Golden Company to set up shop right outside his most significant city, basically the capital of his claimed part of Yi-Ti. For all intents and purposes, they had the city under siege, but had elected to not quite tighten the noose on it yet and cut it off from outside access.

The Golden Company was a small, but powerful army with a lot of resources and experience, but at least half the danger they posed was in their ability to prepare the battlefield where we faced them. If they hadn't had months to set up traps and wards, build a temple to Tiamat, infiltrate Trader Town with virtual impunity, etc., they would have been a much lesser threat. Tiamat's Avatar and her hidden Nightmare Dragons probably wouldn't have shown up to fight for the Golden Company had OJ tried to kick them out of the region, and OJ just as likely didn't even know the Golden Company had that support waiting in the wings.

With as many high level casters as there were in the Golden Company, a battle between them and OJ's forces could have been very rough depending on how advanced his own mages were, but he didn't even try. If Divination revealed such an attempt would result in defeat, that proves his weakness, though the prevalence of Mind Blanks among the highest of the Golden Company's leadership and mages would have muddled any results they sought.

So instead they allowed that state of affairs to persist for months while preparing some sort of fire-based ritual to use against the Golden Company, eventually waiting so long that a foreign army showed up in the meantime and stomped them flat in clear view of Trader Town's walls. My understanding of "Face" might be fairly lacking, but I don't see any way that OJ doesn't lose a ton of face before his supporters for this.
 
Goldfish said:
My understanding of "Face" might be fairly lacking, but I don't see any way that OJ doesn't lose a ton of face before his supporters for this.
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Yeah. Seeing foreign powers kill their enemies with impunity in your own realm tends to destabilise your government something fierce.

I'm also pretty sure that Oranges alleged military strength is a paper tiger at best. Either his troops are tied up with garrison duties, unable to project much force, generally weak, largely imaginary or any combination thereof.

If you are in an armed civil war and have a significant military advantage, you win. He isn't winning though, so I doubt his strength.
 
Props to Lady Xue for delivering an insulting offer with arrogant lilt and political ramifications straight-faced though. She's either oblivious or has a spine of steel to say such on what she considers a red dragon practioner of Maho (Their word for blood magic). That also did just reduce enemies to cinders. For a typical example of the species, eating her outright would be more than a consideration.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by egoo on Feb 28, 2020 at 6:24 AM, finished with 157 posts and 22 votes.
  • [X] Plan Please Go Politely Screw Yourself
    -[X] "I do not think that an alliance or overt cooperation would be in any of our interests. The matters of the Mandate of Heaven are, as far as I'm concerned, an internal matter of Yi-Ti and I think we can all agree that it is better if I not insert myself into those." // Ostensibly this is respecting Yi-Ti's independence in these matters, but the subtext is clear. You will not like it if Viserys involves himself in the civil war.
    -[X] "I am in fact only here due to our shared former enemies, who I very much considered an internal matter of my realm that happened to play out in Yi-Ti. I would otherwise not have come here." // Reinforcing the notion that we are not interested in picking sides.
    -[X] "My association with Pol Ning allowed me to share information in pursuit of resolving the latter issue without unduly inserting myself into the former. I apologise if I left you with a different impression of my intentions." // Directly stating that she can shove her offer of alliance.
    -[X] "I will talk with Pol Ning to make amends to her in regards to the troubles caused by our association and I hope we can leave this matter behind us afterwards. I do not wish to cause controversy or unrest at your court." // Clearly stating that we will part on amicable terms with Pol Ning and trying to force our hand here will be unpleasant for them.
    -[X] While her fate is ultimately of no great concern to you, Pol Ning helped you and is thus eligible to receive help in return. If you divest yourself of minions they should be either dead or not hold a grudge against you afterwards and you have little reason to bestow the former fate on her. She can pick as many options from the following list as she wants:
    --[X] Gainful employment at your court.
    --[X] A new face and identity.
    --[X] Passage to a realm or plane of her choosing.
    --[X] 5,000 IM to set up a new life.
    --[X] Make it clear that these are not bribes or attempts to buy her, but compensation for the troubles caused to her by helping us.
    [X] You will sidestep responsibility, at least as far as Lady Xue is concerned, and continue dealing with matters relating to the Golden Company.
    -[X] You will try to meet with Pol An Ning at the conclusion of those matters and offer her a place in your court, where she would be honored and appreciated, not discarded the moment it becomes politically expedient.
    [X] Attempt to convince Lady Xue that bandaging or otherwise destroying Pol An Ning is a betrayal of her oaths and position.
    -[X] The bitch queen is but one of many horrors, and had her eye been fully on Yi-Ti they very well could have lost even if they did everything correctly. Yi-Ti needs all of the mages it can muster, and they need to stand together to defend it.
    -[X] Give Xue an overview of the threats active on the plane. Attempt to weave in anecdotes of individual victims to drive home the visceral horror of these entities and the fates of the people they take.
    -[X] exiling Pol An Ning is removing a powerful resource, and forcing her to kneel would be using the solemn weight of their shared duty as a bludgeon for the sake of personal gain. To do either would make her the worst sort of parasite, and a fool besides.
    -[X] Burying the hatchet and finding a way to work together as civilized people is the only reasonable way forward if she means for Yi-Ti to survive.
    -[X] Ultimately, it is her choice, but it is in the face of sincere temptation that true values are defined. Will she risk mixing the ashes of Yi-Ti with those of the monsters she seeks to burn by placing herself above her position?
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The first was purely incidental. The second was just the logical conclusion of "rocks are edible right?" and the third was an example of "you can fit SO MUCH ENERGY FIELD in this scaly trunk! *slaps roof*"
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Feb 28, 2020 at 8:29 AM, finished with 164 posts and 22 votes.
  • [X] Plan Please Go Politely Screw Yourself
    -[X] "I do not think that an alliance or overt cooperation would be in any of our interests. The matters of the Mandate of Heaven are, as far as I'm concerned, an internal matter of Yi-Ti and I think we can all agree that it is better if I not insert myself into those." // Ostensibly this is respecting Yi-Ti's independence in these matters, but the subtext is clear. You will not like it if Viserys involves himself in the civil war.
    -[X] "I am in fact only here due to our shared former enemies, who I very much considered an internal matter of my realm that happened to play out in Yi-Ti. I would otherwise not have come here." // Reinforcing the notion that we are not interested in picking sides.
    -[X] "My association with Pol Ning allowed me to share information in pursuit of resolving the latter issue without unduly inserting myself into the former. I apologise if I left you with a different impression of my intentions." // Directly stating that she can shove her offer of alliance.
    -[X] "I will talk with Pol Ning to make amends to her in regards to the troubles caused by our association and I hope we can leave this matter behind us afterwards. I do not wish to cause controversy or unrest at your court." // Clearly stating that we will part on amicable terms with Pol Ning and trying to force our hand here will be unpleasant for them.
    -[X] While her fate is ultimately of no great concern to you, Pol Ning helped you and is thus eligible to receive help in return. If you divest yourself of minions they should be either dead or not hold a grudge against you afterwards and you have little reason to bestow the former fate on her. She can pick as many options from the following list as she wants:
    --[X] Gainful employment at your court.
    --[X] A new face and identity.
    --[X] Passage to a realm or plane of her choosing.
    --[X] 5,000 IM to set up a new life.
    --[X] Make it clear that these are not bribes or attempts to buy her, but compensation for the troubles caused to her by helping us.
    [X] You will sidestep responsibility, at least as far as Lady Xue is concerned, and continue dealing with matters relating to the Golden Company.
    -[X] You will try to meet with Pol An Ning at the conclusion of those matters and offer her a place in your court, where she would be honored and appreciated, not discarded the moment it becomes politically expedient.
    [X] Attempt to convince Lady Xue that bandaging or otherwise destroying Pol An Ning is a betrayal of her oaths and position.
    -[X] The bitch queen is but one of many horrors, and had her eye been fully on Yi-Ti they very well could have lost even if they did everything correctly. Yi-Ti needs all of the mages it can muster, and they need to stand together to defend it.
    -[X] Give Xue an overview of the threats active on the plane. Attempt to weave in anecdotes of individual victims to drive home the visceral horror of these entities and the fates of the people they take.
    -[X] exiling Pol An Ning is removing a powerful resource, and forcing her to kneel would be using the solemn weight of their shared duty as a bludgeon for the sake of personal gain. To do either would make her the worst sort of parasite, and a fool besides.
    -[X] Burying the hatchet and finding a way to work together as civilized people is the only reasonable way forward if she means for Yi-Ti to survive.
    -[X] Ultimately, it is her choice, but it is in the face of sincere temptation that true values are defined. Will she risk mixing the ashes of Yi-Ti with those of the monsters she seeks to burn by placing herself above her position?
Click to expand...
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Feb 28, 2020 at 8:29 AM, finished with 164 posts and 22 votes.
  • [X] Plan Please Go Politely Screw Yourself
    -[X] "I do not think that an alliance or overt cooperation would be in any of our interests. The matters of the Mandate of Heaven are, as far as I'm concerned, an internal matter of Yi-Ti and I think we can all agree that it is better if I not insert myself into those." // Ostensibly this is respecting Yi-Ti's independence in these matters, but the subtext is clear. You will not like it if Viserys involves himself in the civil war.
    -[X] "I am in fact only here due to our shared former enemies, who I very much considered an internal matter of my realm that happened to play out in Yi-Ti. I would otherwise not have come here." // Reinforcing the notion that we are not interested in picking sides.
    -[X] "My association with Pol Ning allowed me to share information in pursuit of resolving the latter issue without unduly inserting myself into the former. I apologise if I left you with a different impression of my intentions." // Directly stating that she can shove her offer of alliance.
    -[X] "I will talk with Pol Ning to make amends to her in regards to the troubles caused by our association and I hope we can leave this matter behind us afterwards. I do not wish to cause controversy or unrest at your court." // Clearly stating that we will part on amicable terms with Pol Ning and trying to force our hand here will be unpleasant for them.
    -[X] While her fate is ultimately of no great concern to you, Pol Ning helped you and is thus eligible to receive help in return. If you divest yourself of minions they should be either dead or not hold a grudge against you afterwards and you have little reason to bestow the former fate on her. She can pick as many options from the following list as she wants:
    --[X] Gainful employment at your court.
    --[X] A new face and identity.
    --[X] Passage to a realm or plane of her choosing.
    --[X] 5,000 IM to set up a new life.
    --[X] Make it clear that these are not bribes or attempts to buy her, but compensation for the troubles caused to her by helping us.
    [X] You will sidestep responsibility, at least as far as Lady Xue is concerned, and continue dealing with matters relating to the Golden Company.
    -[X] You will try to meet with Pol An Ning at the conclusion of those matters and offer her a place in your court, where she would be honored and appreciated, not discarded the moment it becomes politically expedient.
    [X] Attempt to convince Lady Xue that bandaging or otherwise destroying Pol An Ning is a betrayal of her oaths and position.
    -[X] The bitch queen is but one of many horrors, and had her eye been fully on Yi-Ti they very well could have lost even if they did everything correctly. Yi-Ti needs all of the mages it can muster, and they need to stand together to defend it.
    -[X] Give Xue an overview of the threats active on the plane. Attempt to weave in anecdotes of individual victims to drive home the visceral horror of these entities and the fates of the people they take.
    -[X] exiling Pol An Ning is removing a powerful resource, and forcing her to kneel would be using the solemn weight of their shared duty as a bludgeon for the sake of personal gain. To do either would make her the worst sort of parasite, and a fool besides.
    -[X] Burying the hatchet and finding a way to work together as civilized people is the only reasonable way forward if she means for Yi-Ti to survive.
    -[X] Ultimately, it is her choice, but it is in the face of sincere temptation that true values are defined. Will she risk mixing the ashes of Yi-Ti with those of the monsters she seeks to burn by placing herself above her position?
Click to expand...
 
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Part MMMCCCLXIII: Of Soft Words and Telling Silence
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    • Of Soft Words and Telling Silence ​

    Fifteenth Day of the Twelfth Month 293 AC

    Though you can see the worth of Tyene's proposal, you dismiss it almost at once. You will not have your hand forced into an alliance with the weaker of the claimants for the Mandate of Heaven simply because you have made an offer of lore in good faith. What then should you answer? That is the weightier question. It would be easy to pretend you did not hear the offer in the silence, easy to speak to Pol An Ning later not as a princess but as a sorceress, perhaps make her an offer of protection, but that would be leaving the waters muddied and with far too many unwelcome expectations.

    "I do not think that an alliance or overt cooperation would be in any of our interests. The matters of the Mandate of Heaven are, as far as I'm concerned, an internal matter of Yi Ti and I think we can all agree that it is better if I do not insert myself into those." Your smile is soft, respectful, a careful tilt of the head as you twist the knife home. "I am in fact only here due to our shared former enemies, who I very much considered an internal matter of my realm that happened to play out in Yi Ti. I would otherwise not have come here."

    "They were quite far from your realm, unless one considers All Under Heaven your realm," the lady's expression is archaic and little used these days, the spell of translation helpfully sifts meaning from the words. Once it had been synonymous with the Golden Empire, or at least a close cognate, before the barbarian lands had fallen away forgotten. It is sobering realization to discover a linguistic artifact dating back to the Empire of Dawn, but you do not let it distract you.

    "In a world where a mage's step can cover a thousand miles in a moment mere physical distance is of little import." Outwardly the words are factual, but there lies within them the seed of a threat. After all, you are such a mage and to your left and right are two others. "My association with Pol Ning allowed me to share information in pursuit of resolving the latter issue without unduly inserting myself into the former. I apologies if I left you with a different impression of my intentions."

    "Don't sacrifice your pride too much now," Dany sends, obviously amused. More seriously she adds, "Poor Ning, I wish we could do something about the fucking brother."

    "Language," you reply automatically.

    "I didn't speak it," she counters as Lady Xue recovers her composure, or more likely restructures her plan. The flame in the brazier does not waver again.

    "Such small trespass is of course beneath the notice of the Son of Heaven given the great work you have wrought onto the harmony of the Golden Empire. Even the flaw in your working revealed one who would twist the kami against their nature for the service of her own ambition..."

    It is not polite to interrupt a lady you know, much less a shugenja sharing wisdom, but you do not find her words particularly wise. "I will talk with Pol Ning to make amends to her in regards to the troubles caused by our association and I hope we can set the matter aside when all is said and done. I do not wish to cause controversy or unrest at your court." I do not wish to have anything more to do with your court and it is in your best interest that it stays that way, the silence that follows speaks clearer than words.

    "I am afraid that will not be possible." The teacup shakes ever so slightly in the lady's hand. "A princess preparing for her journey to her new husband must absent herself of male company you understand. The Crane Lord of Asabhad is most particular about such matters of honor."

    "Then I shall gladly carry my king's message," Tyene's words are honey and poison. Though she had been planning to offer her cousin's hand for Ning, you know the notion of forcing any match would be utterly abhorrent to her. "It would ill suit all of us were he to remain in Pol An Ning's debt."

    The threat hangs between you like on unsheathed sword. Finally the lady nods, setting her cup down with a clink of porcelain. "You may see her but not today, in three days time. Now come, surely there must be some among our common foes you wish the light of the kami to find."

    "Gods alone know what they can do to her in three days," Dany hisses angrily in your mind, though her expression remains outwardly serene. "It's not just about alliances, but removing her influence, her power from court and you don't remove a sorceress' power with a bit of string and empty vows."

    What do you reply?

    [] Name three Golden Company survivors for the kami to attempt to find (higher chance to track those who are on the Material Plane)
    -[] Write in

    [] Insist that Tyene speaks to Pol Ning today, her time like yours is precious
    -[] Write in

    [] Write in

    OOC: Dany is not in the best mood right now, given that the betrayal of family is something that offends her deeply, but she will follow your lead.
     
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