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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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I think we're all agreed that elephants are great troop stompers.

So why don't they have more of them?

@065tdsa had a suggestion that doesn't make sense to me. Elephants can acquired from the Isle of Elephants. We have basically no pull in the Jade Sea outside of our expeditions dealings with places like Vahar.
 
Crake said:
I think we're all agreed that elephants are great troop stompers.

So why don't they have more of them?

@065tdsa had a suggestion that doesn't make sense to me. Elephants can acquired from the Isle of Elephants. We have basically no pull in the Jade Sea outside of our expeditions dealings with places like Vahar.
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We have a strong airforce and expect to be fighting people with a strong airforce.

Also we should skip straight to steamtanks.
 
Crake said:
@065tdsa had a suggestion that doesn't make sense to me. Elephants can acquired from the Isle of Elephants. We have basically no pull in the Jade Sea outside of our expeditions dealings with places like Vahar.
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The other option is that they decided to have them shipped over the normal way and it got delayed. However, normal shipping for elephants must be stupidly expensive so why wouldn't they try to bring them over with magic? Something must be making the prospect of detaching a mage to go over there and get them untenable.
 
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Goldfish said:
One Animal Growth spell could affect all three elephants, as could a Haste spell. Then Mage Armor on each of them, assuming they aren't already in heavy barding, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Bear's Endurance, Resist Energy as needed, and you have three combat monsters at your disposal.

Other good spells of you have Divine magic include Shield of Faith, Bless, Aid, Barkskin, etc.

If you're gonna focus your spells on a few champions, elephants would be a good choice, if you have the means to control them.

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Still unable to fight against dragons or decent mages though.

An asset that can't fly or has a ranged attack is pretty useless in modern magical warfare.
 
065tdsa said:
The other option is that they decided to have them shipped over the normal way and it got delayed. Normal shipping for elephants must be stupidly slow and expensive so really why wouldn't they try to bring them over with magic?
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Honestly, that's fair enough. I think after hearing about mage practices in Volantis and the Golden Shields, I get the impression people do not use mages or magic as an ubiquitous "cure all" solution quite like we do.

Mages are prideful sorts, but Viserys will figuratively bend down and yank up his sleeves and get his hands dirty right in front of everyone else, so mages serving him don't have the opportunity to develop the sort of pride that makes them categorically refuse to do grunt work.
 
It's not normally an Arcane spell, but the GC could still have access to Dominate Animal spell, which would remove scaring them as a useful tactic without first Dispelling the effect.

Crake said:
I think we're all agreed that elephants are great troop stompers.

So why don't they have more of them?

@065tdsa had a suggestion that doesn't make sense to me. Elephants can acquired from the Isle of Elephants. We have basically no pull in the Jade Sea outside of our expeditions dealings with places like Vahar.
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There may not be enough elephants to go around? Other people may be training them as warbeasts, too. Elephants aren't easy to transport, either, and it takes someone with a high caster level to Teleport one (minimum of 12th caster level). Getting more the Muggle way could takes a long while.

And @Duesal might have been right earlier. The GC may have gotten more elephants, but Tiamat's Drakes killed them.
 
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You are all focusing too much on great stompyness to consider both the logistics and tactical implications of these elephants.

Logistically, they need a lot of food and care, or expensive magic to deal with it.
They need handlers, which apparently are now mages.
You need mages to buff them into usefulness.
You need mages to prevent a single Dispel or Entangle from taking most of their combat power away.
They are hard to lug around by both mundane and magic methods.

They are not remotely useful enough to warrant all these issues. For the same costs and logistical issues, you could equip and maintain multiple attack teams focused around a caster.


Armies wirk on cheap and reliable, not fancy and awesome.
 
Crake said:
So why are we so awesome?
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Because we get to have a flesh forge make us super war beasts that bypass one or more of these requirements. The correct warlike temperament comes pre-installed, as do an entire array of buffs from templates and photosynthesis if we want it. We also make them ourselves on demand.

This means they are awesome and practical.
 
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Azel said:
You are all focusing too much on great stompyness to consider both the logistics and tactical implications of these elephants.

Logistically, they need a lot of food and care, or expensive magic to deal with it.
They need handlers, which apparently are now mages.
You need mages to buff them into usefulness.
You need mages to prevent a single Dispel or Entangle from taking most of their combat power away.
They are hard to lug around by both mundane and magic methods.

They are not remotely useful enough to warrant all these issues. For the same costs and logistical issues, you could equip and maintain multiple attack teams focused around a caster.

Armies wirk on cheap and reliable, not fancy and awesome.
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They're probably quite good at shock and awe tactics, especially if buffed. A Huge-sized elephant charging you is already scary, make it faster than a horse and Gargantuan-sized and you have a recipe for soiled pantaloons.
 
Goldfish said:
They're probably quite good at shock and awe tactics, especially if buffed. A Huge-sized elephant charging you is already scary, make it faster than a horse and Gargantuan-sized and you have a recipe for soiled pantaloons.
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Wand of: Stone Wall. Grease. Glitterdust.

Ballista bolts. Scorpion steel balls. Siege engine sized Alchemists Fire.

Wyvern bolts. Darkenbeast bombardment. Beetle Bombs.

Moonchaser artillery shelling.


You are investing a lot of effort into something with really marginal utility.
 
Azel said:
Wand of: Stone Wall. Grease. Glitterdust.

Ballista bolts. Scorpion steel balls. Siege engine sized Alchemists Fire.

Wyvern bolts. Darkenbeast bombardment. Beetle Bombs.

Moonchaser artillery shelling.


You are investing a lot of effort into something with really marginal utility.
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Oh, you thought I was talking about them against us? Haha, no way, dude. They're Forge bait.

I was merely speculating on how effective they would be against disorganized enemies with little in the way of magical resources.
 
Azel said:
That's pretty pathetic. Give it two Legions, the Siege Company and the Darkenbeast Company, and they would be slaughtered to a man with nearly no losses.
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Probably hoping for the Shadow Drakes to carry.

Someone once equated us to Henry Ford a few days ago and that description is not far off the mark. They're preparing for war it is true, but they're doing it the Medieval way, creating singular hard hitters to deal big damage and leaving the rest of the work as fodder to either swarm the enemy heavy hitters or shield their own.

We on the other hand have turned war into an industry (not least in part due to our outside the context thinking in such matters) making every soldier under our command hit as hard as fiscally, magically, and physically possible. We don't sacrifice quality for quantity or vise versa, we've combined the two which in and of itself is horrific to face on a Planetos tech scale.

The Golden company is equipped to handle a Planetos Army, not the magical equivalent to the Imperial Guard.
 
Evaunit02mark1 said:
The Golden company is equipped to handle a Planetos Army, not the magical equivalent to the Imperial Guard.
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We'd better not let out Legionnaires hear that. Modelling ourselves on an army that treats people as less important than their guns is honestly terrible. Legionnaires are an expensive investment, and we absolutely don't want to start thinking of dumb shit like "human wave tactics" or whatever.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
We'd better not let out Legionnaires hear that. Modelling ourselves on an army that treats people as less important than their guns is honestly terrible. Legionnaires are an expensive investment, and we absolutely don't want to start thinking of dumb shit like "human wave tactics" or whatever.
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Currently peoples equipment IS almost as good as the entire person. And certainly more expensive.

Were working on that though.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
We'd better not let out Legionnaires hear that. Modelling ourselves on an army that treats people as less important than their guns is honestly terrible. Legionnaires are an expensive investment, and we absolutely don't want to start thinking of dumb shit like "human wave tactics" or whatever.
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Yes, well, rest assured, we have not hit those heights of grimderp.
 
zxzx24 said:
Currently peoples equipment IS almost as good as the entire person. And certainly more expensive.

Were working on that though.
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No. Just no. We can procure aw materials endlessly and create their gear stupidly cheaply though magic, and replace it fast. So that cost doesn't apply to us. However what does still apply to us is training time, and difficulty recruiting endless amounts of violent and loyal people (if possible, with enough levels to easily retrain into Legionnaire Sergeants or something).
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
We'd better not let out Legionnaires hear that. Modelling ourselves on an army that treats people as less important than their guns is honestly terrible. Legionnaires are an expensive investment, and we absolutely don't want to start thinking of dumb shit like "human wave tactics" or whatever.
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That's only by commanders who don't know what the hell they're doing. A proper leader may spend the lives of his men, but he does not waste them.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
No. Just no. We can procure aw materials endlessly and create their gear stupidly cheaply though magic, and replace it fast. So that cost doesn't apply to us. However what does still apply to us is training time, and difficulty recruiting endless amounts of violent and loyal people (if possible, with enough levels to easily retrain into Legionnaire Sergeants or something).
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All true.
Until we can easily recycle their souls into Outsiders their lifes have a value.
 
Vote closed, not a lot of votes, but understandably so with all the discussions of systemic change.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jan 26, 2020 at 3:04 PM, finished with 76 posts and 13 votes.
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Artemis1992 said:
All true.
Until we can easily recycle their souls into Outsiders their lifes have a value.
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A high-level soul likely makes for better Outsiders.

So their value increases with time.

Likewise, a high-level body makes for better undead.

So their value increases even more.


You wouldn't kill a piglet when you could wait for it to become a fat, juicy sow, right?
 
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