A lot of good ideas.

I have to say I really do appreciate this discussion guys, it does make me feel a little guilty since this is all stuff I should be handling, but still it's nice to see we can talk out issues of this sort.
You are one person, and our playing field is one planet and a scattering of planar locations and 11(?) major factions which we are expected to interact with.
//
If I understood Azel, he's advocating to move to a CK2 quest format, means, increasing the abstraction. Given the scope, that would be one way to handle it.
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Our research actions should take in-game years. We are nearing artifact-level competence a few years after magic came back. Without a comprehensive 'Artifacts for Dummies' guide.
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If you give the average 8 year a college-level math books, I wouldn't expect new theorems popping up within the next few months. Telling reality 'follow my formula' - wizard spells - doesn't sound easier than the example in the previous sentence.
 
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You are assuming that:
A) I continue coming up with stuff.
B) I'm pushing through every single project on the list.

Both are wrong.
I've stopped about two-three months ago IC. Since then, I but added a few projects that other posters insisted on, like Psionic stuff by Duesal.
If I'm the only one who cares about getting Psions then I won't care if that entire line of research gets scrapped.

Seriously. I'm all for research becoming harder and forcing us to become far more narrow in what we focus on. If that means getting rid of the potential for Psions in full then by all means, let's go for it.
By the way, the answer to this is "we were told by DP that divining and reconnaissance'ing everything as needed before the attack will take about a week via Mindblanked Companions, so we might as well spend the time doing something somewhat productive".

We went on to try and gather some allies/mercs.

We could have gone speak to Stannis, or rulers of Lorath (who have expressed a desire to meet), or visited the Dornish tourney, or tried looking for "exiles" of Faceless Men.
All was voted on, all would have taken (and will take later this month) but a bit.

Plane of Water was just a singular "package" of actions, so we went there.


And by the by, I just read all the posts since the 18th of Jan, and I'm in no way sorry we took this long here.
The world-building was awesome, @DragonParadox.

It is just too bad we didn't have something alike in PoA or PoE when we first ventured there.
Now we are just too important and busy to, apparently :/
And at this stage the Plane of Water has begun to take on the form of cookie-cutter interactions, with us going through all the same motions with how we greet new people, what we say to them, what we want from them, etc. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You say DP told us we needed about a week for the Golden Company infiltration to herald our attack. Well, we're currently on the twelfth day of the month, two days away from it being two weeks into the month. I'm pretty damn sure we're going to spend at least a day IC at the next location doing whatever we're doing there.
 
You say DP told us we needed about a week for the Golden Company infiltration to herald our attack. Well, we're currently on the twelfth day of the month, two days away from it being two weeks into the month. I'm pretty damn sure we're going to spend at least a day IC at the next location doing whatever we're doing there.
Some interludes may have gone that far ahead, but Viserys' POV is still on the 9th of the month.
 
@egoo, you are cherrypicking research actions there and quite strongly so. There always have been and there still are research actions that plowed through in a single month. Look at the things to do with the astral dreadnought, the Fungus Forge upgrade and so and so forth. These mini-projects have actually prevented effort to be put into longer projects for quite a while and they greatly help to make research feel instant.

Especially as Research interludes are very formulaic. They start with a problem, have a bit of discussion and then some brilliant insight propels the project forward. We will not hear again from this until the research is done. One of the most cheapening parts of the whole thing is that it always makes research look as if there was just a singular issue that needs solving, making the whole ordeal seem very easy. It also throws up the question why nobody else on the planes ever did this before when it's apparently that easy.


Anyway.


The thing I decidedly did not suggest, but multiple people picked up on is the comparison to CK2 quests. Fact is though, there is a huge amount of administrative stuff being dragged behind the narrative. It needs handling, one way or another. In my opinion, further abstraction of strategic play would do wonders for player engagement with the whole turn-vote and make it much easier to comprehend for new players. That also includes research.

What is odd to me to realize is that my feeling that many characters are just glorified chess pieces these days is that this is directly tied to the strategic systems. These actions need interludes, said interludes need stuff happening, so the exposition needed to cover the action drives out a lot of space for the characters to breath. Same goes for research, where there is little in the way of set building. Ergo, tons of tiny actions cause tons of tiny interludes that leave characters stuck in the very tiny treadmills we made for them.

I could see if I can find my notes from "Back Then", since I had a fairly comprehensive plan to reform research actions and later the strategic actions.
 
If I'm the only one who cares about getting Psions then I won't care if that entire line of research gets scrapped.

Seriously. I'm all for research becoming harder and forcing us to become far more narrow in what we focus on. If that means getting rid of the potential for Psions in full then by all means, let's go for it.
I'm afraid you'd be left in little of company in being okay with axing many such RAs, if the way the thread is drawn to shinies is any indication.
But still.

I can axe about a half third of the actions on the list, easy.
Won't change a thing, since we won't be picking them up for half a year IC at best anyway.

As I said, the general gist of what we think/know is possible IC can be seen through them, which is kinda good by itself.

Will anyone care for us applying "breath-weapon X" to the fleshforged creatures?
Nah, not really, but if we try researching into a template that has it, we'd have reasonable boot-start of 2-3 Progress, since we already have a sample.
Will anyone ever care for Living Spells?
Nah, they are irrelevant. But they are a unique bit of magic we can trade, if nothing else, and we know we can tame them to one degree or another and/or make more of them.
Bronn's Sword, the Fleasticker? The Crown of Flowers, or Valyrian Plinth?
Pretty much irrelevant forever, but we can if we ever need some insight into making artifacts, for some reason.

DP justifies low'ish Progress on most of the current RAs by us having a "high-magic setting"-grade base for research, and a Elminster Brann the Builder-grade genius (in potential if nothing else) as a head researcher.
When we move to new RAs that are at least slightly relevant, well, we see numbers like Progress: 50.

EDIT: @Azel, see above. Yes, there are only a few RAs that are realistically anywhat nearing "difficult".
Please regard DP's reasoning for setting Progress requirements low for all the remaining ones, I have little to do with that.
Some of them we completed.
Most of them are just... there. Providing more information on what we know and what we don't.
Probably unlikely to ever be done, but somewhat relevant to the quest regardless. Which is why I'd rather keep them regardless.
 
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Some interludes may have gone that far ahead, but Viserys' POV is still on the 9th of the month.
Sure. But my bigger complaint is that so much time in the Plane of Water is at the expense of the potential buildup against the Golden Company.

We've been building up this upcoming fight for years OOC, but in the last turn (totalling between 70-80ish updates in the last twenty days OOC) we've had one update that vaguely references the Golden Company, and one update actually infiltrating the Golden Company.

The worldbuilding here is nice, sure, but it comes at the expense of the kind of narrative buildup we could have been getting with the Golden Company before shit goes down.

I'm afraid you'd be left in little of company in being okay with axing many such RAs, if the way the thread is drawn to shinies is any indication.
But still.

I can axe about a half third of the actions on the list, easy.
Won't change a thing, since we won't be picking them up for half a year IC at best anyway.

As I said, the general gist of what we think/know is possible IC can be seen through them, which is kinda good by itself.

Will anyone care for us applying "breath-weapon X" to the fleshforged creatures?
Nah, not really, but if we try researching into a template that has it, we'd have reasonable boot-start of 2-3 Progress, since we already have a sample.
Will anyone ever care for Living Spells?
Nah, they are irrelevant. But they are a unique bit of magic we can trade, if nothing else, and we know we can tame them to one degree or another and/or make more of them.
I would be perfectly happy with axing all of this.
Bronn's Sword, the Fleasticker? The Crown of Flowers, or Valyrian Plinth?
Pretty much irrelevant forever, but we can if we ever need some insight into making artifacts, for some reason.
Artifacts are necessary for Lya's mythic path progression. Once she makes that step the artifacts will cease to be relevant.
 
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Alright then.
Here's all the stuff I can honestly say I feel doesn't matter if we are to put emphasis on core plot, and make RAs feel more "worth it".
Any arguments?
-[] Sonic breathweapon (Kongamato corpse) (Progress: 6 Cost 7000 IM)
-[] Acid breathweapon (Irony's Steel-blooded calves) (Progress: 5 Cost 4000 IM)
-[] Electricity breathweapon (Lightning Lizards) (Progress: 5 Cost 6000 IM)
[] Spell-Wrought Daggers: Feeder is indeed a dragon... of sorts at least. By drawing on that ancient legacy, one can not only create more of his kind but also grant some small measure of sorcery to those who possess none.
-[] Create the templated Dagger-wyrms with lvl 1 Sorcerer casting. (Progress 8, Cost ??)
[] An Eye of Wavering Weave: The eye of the colossal beast captured on Astral Plane preying upon souls lost to Doom holds a terrifying and exciting power. While mass-producing something like that would be too costly and too lengthy... Perhaps one of your oldest friends can have much use of something like it?
--[] Make an artifact/lense for Xor out of Astral Behemot's Eye with an "Antimagic Cone (Su)" as an effect (Progress: 8 Cost: ??)

[] The Segregation of Astral: The claws of the colossal beast captured on Astral Plane preying upon souls lost to Doom holds curious property that few other things or beings in existence can claim to have. If these can in some way be made in a weapon...
-[] Turn the claws of Astral Dreadnought into a weapon capable of severing silver cords. (Progress: 13 Cost: )
[] Secrets by Devils' Blood Wrought: Valyrian Steel holds many a secret, from what was the first seed that bore this metal-eating material... To what it can yet do.
-[] Find out the mechanisms and effects of the process allowing Valyrian Steel to consume ambient magic and release it slightly changed. Potentially, VS could be used to store magical energies or to transform them to cause specific effects, also study the mechanics of the way that Valyrian Steel "devours" other metals. Especially how it is doing so with Gold, which doesn't corrode naturally, and magical metals like Mythral and Adamantine. (Progress: 12)
-[] The process of creating VS can be compared to the way Anu used to "quieten" Living Brass. As the making of both materials has similarities, using life-force and souls respectively to empower mundane metal, this study might give insights into the creation of VS or similar materials from scratch, without needing a pre-existing seed. (Progress: 16)
[] Deepening Shadows: Sorcerer's Deep could use more room to house its students and teachers, perhaps with skill and patience one might expand what was wrought from instinct and ambition (Progress: 16)
[] Study Qarthi Lore: Deep and old runs the lore of Qarth, Gateway between East and West. Long have the Warlocks toiled in the workings of fell magics. Where others faltered, they endured. What secrets might be gleaned from their artifacts and writings? Lya is more than happy to try and seek the answers. (Progress: 12)
[] Sand Wiper's Reach: Have Tyene retrain her Occular Spell into a version of a Reach Spell that has only +1 level adjustment (Progress: 8)
[] A Method to Madness: the body the Mind-Eaters crafted for Jeyne with infiltration in mind is an incredible piece of magic wholly unlike anything you've ever seen. Copying it won't be easy, but succeeding promises an ability to flesh-craft similar vessels as needed, granting you an in into mysteries of Psionic powers.
-[] Research into Psionic templates
(Progress: 40, Cost: 200.000 IM)

[] Mind's shackles, by blood cast off: By following along the secrets of Drow Flesh-crafters, attempt to create something the degenerate blood-drinkers only speculated about in their notes - a creature capable of twisting the reality in same and ways so different to magic Aberrations do - yet not bound to Outer realms.
-[] Adds Vampire, Psychic (CR+2) template, as possible creation in Fleshforge. Requires a functioning Flesh-forge. (Progress: 24, Cost: 26.000 IM)
[] The Magic Made Manifest: Research the Living Spells you've captured at Lys.
-[] Find a method to keep them docile at all times (Progress: 18)
-[] Find a method to increase their population
--[] Tiered research (requires getting first tiers before next ones):
---[] Level 1-3 spells - (Progress: 30)

[] The Magic by Ink Bound: Research a way to make Tattoo Guardians become inert on command for a short time, so that their presence does not interfere with translocation magic. (Progress: 15)
[] Hellfire Belchers: Captured in a battle with Devil's battleship, carry secrets of holding and utilizing some of one the most powerful weapons in Hells' arsenal. (Progress: 12)
[] Inquisitorial Armaments > Black Projects: Inquisition faces challenges beyond those that can be reasonably solved with mundane equipment. As the realm grows, so does the need to supply Inquisitors with the tools to solve such problems. This line of projects intends to create a whole new tool, that, given a certain level of secrecy, will guarantee a significant rise in Inquisitors' effectiveness (Tiered research, each development requires previous tiers)

[] Inquisitorial Armaments: Black Project "Arbiter": Create a modified version of a Launcher, the "Arbiter"-class Launcher, a modular weapon and a base for further technological improvement, yet an effective weapon all in of itself. (Progress: 20, Cost: 60.000)
-[] Inquisitorial Armaments: Black Project: "Heavy Arbiter" and FIrefield: Further develop the concept of "Arbiter"-class Launcher for use in missions requiring precise devastation of targets, with no mage of sufficient power available. Develop the "Heavy Arbiter"-class Launcher. As further development of the concept, "Firefield"-class Launcher would serve in situations when overwhelming firepower and total destruction of the target is necessary, but no sufficient source of fire support is available. (Progress: 28, Cost: 100.000 IM)

[] Inquisitorial Armaments: Black Projects: "Dragon's Fang" and "Viper's Kiss": As a tool for a very particular sort of missions where direct engagement isn't possible, "Dragon's Fang"-class Launcher would serve as a long-range engagement or assassination. "Viper's Kiss"-type Alchemical Dart would further enhance the performance by allowing unnoticeable delivery of poisons over extreme distances. (Progress: 28, Cost: 140.000 IM)
-[] Inquisitorial Armaments: Black Project: "Deathstrike Projector": Further develop on of concepts applied by "Dragon's Fang"-class Launcher and "Viper's Kiss"-type Alchemical Dart, creating a unique completely magic-based long-range engagement/assassination weapon - the "Deathstrike Projector". (Progress: 32, Cost: 150.000) IM

[] Inquisitorial Armaments: Black Project: "Lawgiver": The pinnacle of Launcher-based weaponry - the peak of efficiency and the project of utmost secrecy - "Lawgiver"-class Launcher would be one of the most powerful personal weapons known to Imperium, and one made to serve only the best of Inquisition's field agents, bound to them ritually, and crafted by the only person who could be trusted with it - Wisdom Lya herself. (Progress: 32, Cost: 180.000 IM)
[] Spell-Crafting
-[] Research a spell Eject (Progress: 12)
-[] Attempt to create an "inverted" version of Icy Soul spell, negating Cold subtype instead. (Progress: 10)
-[] Research a Greater version of Baleful Teleport [no distance limit, 8th level] (Progress: 16, Cost: ??)
 
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So I just tried to squish a tiny little bug that was crawling around on my monitor screen. Turns out the little bastard was under the screen somehow. Now I have a squashed insect permanently in my screen and it is constantly drawing my eye to it.

I'm going to have to buy a new monitor or it will eventually drive me insane... :mad:

How the hell does an insect even get under there?
 
@egoo
The Quarthi lore seems important.
Not for now, but at some future point when Quarth becomes relevant.

We don't have to research it, but please keep the existance noted somewhere.
 
@egoo, I'd keep VS, psionic and gun research. The rest...

Personally, I'd love to mess with Living spells, since there's a lot of potential, but there's likely little narrative impact.
 
@egoo, I would keep these two;

[] Deepening Shadows: Sorcerer's Deep could use more room to house its students and teachers, perhaps with skill and patience one might expand what was wrought from instinct and ambition (Progress: 16)

And

[] Sand Wiper's Reach: Have Tyene retrain her Occular Spell into a version of a Reach Spell that has only +1 level adjustment (Progress: 8)

The first deals with figuring out how to expand the Demiplane which house the Shadow Tower. That's not important, but it's certainly worthwhile, and one that the Scholarium itself can research.

The second is an easy project that Tyene alone can work on which will significantly enhance her combat abilities.

I really don't want to get rid of either of these, ya'll.
 
The first deals with figuring out how to expand the Demiplane which house the Shadow Tower. That's not important, but it's certainly worthwhile, and one that the Scholarium itself can research.
What's the point then?

This should be something the Scholarium is putting a few off-screen resources into over months. This is simply no PC-grade action.
 
What's the point then?

This should be something the Scholarium is putting a few off-screen resources into over months. This is simply no PC-grade action.
That's why it shouldn't be removed, since there need not be any PC involvement. The SD Scholarium branch can work on it in the background as a research project. It makes sense to have them do it, as the Scholarium continues to expand quite fast.
 
While a bit fluffy, this is largely irrelevant to us at the moment, and won't be taken for a while for sure. And then we'll have better, bigger projects.
Why bother keeping it, then?
Goes directly against the "more abstraction"-policy that seems to be taking root now.
No one but the Inquisition will use those. They are abstracted as fuck even now, let alone after the proposed changes.
The gun RAs are minuscule in impact to how the story will be perceived through VIserys' eyes.
Why bother keeping it, then?
[] Deepening Shadows: Sorcerer's Deep could use more room to house its students and teachers, perhaps with skill and patience one might expand what was wrought from instinct and ambition (Progress: 16)
Never going to be taken because Scholarum is already abstracted AF and will get even more so. It's unlikely to ever need such an expansion, anyway.
Why bother keeping it, then?
[] Sand Wiper's Reach: Have Tyene retrain her Occular Spell into a version of a Reach Spell that has only +1 level adjustment (Progress: 8)
She'll always have more important tasks she alone can take, let's be real.

It has been there for over a year OOC, it won't ever be taken long as we have a task we need an Intrigue character on.
Which is always. Planes are a thing.

There are more spell-researching RAs I haven't included initially, but now that I think about it, they are largely pointless too.
[] Spell-Crafting
-[] Research a spell Eject (Progress: 12)
-[] Attempt to create an "inverted" version of Icy Soul spell, negating Cold subtype instead. (Progress: 10)
-[] Research a Greater version of Baleful Teleport [no distance limit, 8th level] (Progress: 16, Cost: ??)
 
Vote closed.

It might take a bit longer than usual to write. I'm busy IRL.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jan 26, 2020 at 7:00 AM, finished with 146 posts and 11 votes.

  • [X] Present yourself to the Emir's court
    -[X] With an offer of trade. If we are able to establish a trade deal with Dawa, we may attempt to broker a military alliance in the near future, likely through our proxies soon to be assigned to operate on the Plane of Water in our stead.
    -[X] After we finish with Dawa, Teleport back to Vialesk while the Moonchaser Plane Shifts to Sorcerer's Deep. We will pick up our commissioned items, perhaps place another order, then return to Planetos in order to start working with Dany and the others for our upcoming confrontation with the forces the Golden Company and Tiamat.
 
While a bit fluffy, this is largely irrelevant to us at the moment, and won't be taken for a while for sure. And then we'll have better, bigger projects.
Why bother keeping it, then?
Godcrafting
Goes directly against the "more abstraction"-policy that seems to be taking root now.
No one but the Inquisition will use those. They are abstracted as fuck even now, let alone after the proposed changes.
The gun RAs are minuscule in impact to how the story will be perceived through VIserys' eyes.
Mostly because there are a ton of minor characters who would get one.
 
While a bit fluffy, this is largely irrelevant to us at the moment, and won't be taken for a while for sure. And then we'll have better, bigger projects.
Why bother keeping it, then?

Goes directly against the "more abstraction"-policy that seems to be taking root now.
No one but the Inquisition will use those. They are abstracted as fuck even now, let alone after the proposed changes.
The gun RAs are minuscule in impact to how the story will be perceived through VIserys' eyes.


Never going to be taken because Scholarum is already abstracted AF and will get even more so. It's unlikely to ever need such an expansion, anyway.
Why bother keeping it, then?

She'll always have more important tasks she alone can take, let's be real.

It has been there for over a year OOC, it won't ever be taken long as we have a task we need an Intrigue character on.
Which is always. Planes are a thing.

There are more spell-researching RAs I haven't included initially, but now that I think about it, they are largely pointless too.
I'm willing to sideline Tyene for a month (not counting potential short combat engagements) so she can complete and 8 progress upgrade for one of her feats. It would be well worth it, IMO. If ya'll agree to axe it, then so be it, but it really is a small investment for a great return.

As for this one, I really want it. I've proposed very few research actions throughout the quest, but this is one I directly asked for and think will be very helpful for us, especially since we can use it to further remove Viserys from inconsequential actions like delivering people to far off locales because there isn't enough people to do it and traditional travel would take weeks or months.

[] Spell-Crafting
-[] Research a Greater version of Baleful Teleport [no distance limit, 8th level] (Progress: 16, Cost: ??)
 
Ya should have included it in the list while you was QM'ing and I asked, then :/

The project as envisioned so far doesn't include VS as a basis for Imperial Deity, IIRC - that'd be roads, paperwork, something-something...
What's the purpose for VS?
I can move it in, but unless @DragonParadox directly states our project as now will need researching deep into VS as a step...
Mostly because there are a ton of minor characters who would get one.
"More abstraction" says we shouldn't care?
it really is a small investment for a great return.
Mechanical return. Alone. That's really why it seems inconsequential to most.
I'll keep it if ya want it this much, I just don't see a point to doing it when we can send her intriguing somewhere instead 100% of the time.
As for this one, I really want it. I've proposed very few research actions throughout the quest, but this is one I directly asked for and think will be very helpful for us, especially since we can use it to further remove Viserys from inconsequential actions like delivering people to far off locales because there isn't enough people to do it and traditional travel would take weeks or months.

[] Spell-Crafting
-[] Research a Greater version of Baleful Teleport [no distance limit, 8th level] (Progress: 16, Cost: ??)
Yeah, alright, keeping this I suppose.

Can't we delegate???
Apparently RAs so far seem too inconsequential, and the bloated list of "things we are never going to do" isn't helping with the perception.
 
Ya should have included it in the list while you was QM'ing and I asked, then :/

The project as envisioned so far doesn't include VS as a basis for Imperial Deity, IIRC - that'd be roads, paperwork, something-something...
What's the purpose for VS?
I can move it in, but unless @DragonParadox directly states our project as now will need researching deep into VS as a step...
Gods beware that I kept some secrets about a complex research project of which not even the baseline steps had been completed so far...
This is the whole "Valyrian Steel conducts magic" thing. There's also the plinth.

In a weird departure from other research, I had envisioned a very large, complicated and involved project for godcrafting. Something along the lines of a Manhatten Project.
Not marking off 3-4 sequential research actions and calling it a day.
"More abstraction" says we shouldn't care?
More abstraction means not that these characters cease to exist, just that the focus of the narrative is re-adjusted.
 
another random question from the past agin after looking at a map of essos. will we ever sent someone or go to the womb of the world or mother of mountains becouse those look like prime adventuring locations
 
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