Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
We could always move the tree and just spread the rumor that Stannis cut it down. Wouldn't be hard to fake.
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
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- Tags
- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
I would rather not spread rumors about our own vassals if we don't have to.
Given the timeline that we're working with and how I don't expect Stormy to be useful in the timeframe of any of our major operations in the next several months, how about we just wait??
Given the timeline that we're working with and how I don't expect Stormy to be useful in the timeframe of any of our major operations in the next several months, how about we just wait??
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
That would be my preference as well, though I don't have any issues with broaching the subject with Stannis sooner than that, if it makes sense to do it.
- Location
- Australia
Hard Agree.
I don't care if Stormy will ignore the fake tree, there are still people who keep to the Old Gods and they shouldn't be mislead into trusting in a fake.
I think it is bad form in general to make a fake of something so important to allies of ours but particularly something like a Weirwood where a local Warg might try to meditate or someone trying to find refuge from the Other etc
Also if it's not against the Tenets of Yss it's bloody borderline and I'm not okay with having something that looks like a Weirwood, walks like a Weirwood but talks with the voice of anything clever and mischievous enough to misrepresent itself in the oh so convenient god-free holy place that they would never get away with in a real heart tree grove.
- Location
- Australia
How about a Roc?
Too big haha, the standard Bladeleaf Template and resulting swarm would be horrifying on a Roc though, an army killer all on its own most likely.
And here I wanted to make a Nature Dragon breed from the Pyrausta with Druid Casting, Plantblood and Bladeleaf tmeplates.
Like a complement to the Spirit Dragon Pryrausta based Cleric Casting Dragon breed.
[X] Crake
Though may be we should include something like explicitly granting the Faceless an exemption to the usual ban on proscribed deities? Treat it less like we're accepting and/or tolerating them and more like we'd do a particularly dangerous field of arcane study. E.g. demon summoning and necromancy.
I mean, the Faceless are technically part of the Scholarum now. We could literally make 'worship' of the Many Faced God a regulated field of research. The Faceless order would merely be the primary practitioners of that field of magic.
Though may be we should include something like explicitly granting the Faceless an exemption to the usual ban on proscribed deities? Treat it less like we're accepting and/or tolerating them and more like we'd do a particularly dangerous field of arcane study. E.g. demon summoning and necromancy.
I mean, the Faceless are technically part of the Scholarum now. We could literally make 'worship' of the Many Faced God a regulated field of research. The Faceless order would merely be the primary practitioners of that field of magic.
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Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Ur-Priests don't really worship. What they have between them and the proscribed against deities is closer to our Deep One treaty than anything else. But the very nature of it is vulnerable and an info-hazard, or I would have voted to make it fully public so as to leave no blank spaces or loopholes.
That is why I had it in quotation marks. And while its dangerous to let people know the specifics, is it really any more dangerous to be open about the fact that the Faceless interact with proscribed gods than it is for people to know that its possible to create undead or summon demons? People already know that dark gods exist, and your plan has us allowing their idols to remain. If someone is dead set on worshiping a proscribed god there is literally nothing we can do to preemptively stop them from offering prayer.
I'm just saying that instead of being cryptic we should slap the divine equivalent of a biohazard sign on the Many Faced Gods. That way people won't get themselves hurt just because they're curious and stupid.
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- Location
- Australia
[X] Crake
I think over time it would become an option to let people find out that not all aspects of the Many Faced God's are willing participants in his Pantheon of Self.
It semi-neatly encompasses the fact that this is an exception to the rule and also not true worship of a deity.
I think over time it would become an option to let people find out that not all aspects of the Many Faced God's are willing participants in his Pantheon of Self.
It semi-neatly encompasses the fact that this is an exception to the rule and also not true worship of a deity.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Something to this effect?
[X] Public knowledge of the matter will be the bringing of the House of Black and White into compliance with Imperial Law, which is fully true, at this time they are committing no ongoing breaches by omission or otherwise. The Faceless Men do not traditionally worship any proscribed against Gods, but their presence is integral to drawing power from the Faceless Gods' primary domain. Exclusion is more dangerous for reasons which would be cognito hazards in the mind of the uninitiated or untrained to reveal publicly.
-[X] Restricted (Scholarum, Inquisition, etc. but not necessarily Forbidden) details on the the doctrinal practice of idolatry to even proscribed against deities known to inhabit the Lower Planes by the practitioners of magic within the Faceless Men is that it is not true worship, identified by the fact that they worship a Concept of Death and draw power from a universal pool from which all deities with the domain do contribute, a perilous path to power that essentially only guarantees a high likelihood that the very same order that trains such mages has been responsible for eliminating rogue elements for centuries... thus far to terrifyingly good effect, the details of which are startlingly similar to the same manner of the well documented drawing of power from the Concept of Law many in the Scholarum now make use of, most well-known of all being Malarys. Anything else about this arrangement, I.E exact details of how it shakes out or how the class works or really what the true threat could do to those deities if they weren't involved in the system (Void-taint) is strictly Forbidden (Tier 3) knowledge, generally only known by Inquisitors, Lord Inquisitors, General Commissars and other agents of the Crown.
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Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
The only thing about the above that could use some refinement is reasoning for allowing the practice to continue that is both true but also doesn't reveal too much. I'm sorry but I would very much also rather reveal too little and risk someone getting too curious and eating a face full of IT CANNOT BE because he was stupid and ignored all of the very obvious signs that the Crown was being cagey about the matter because it was fucking dangerous, than reveal... half a dozen fucking infohazardous truths that by their very nature would very quickly lead people down a line of questioning that ends with complete insanity or despair-bordering-on-insanity. On a mass scale.
More or less. I'm largely ambivalent about how we handle the Faceless, but it felt odd that we were inventing a whole new narrative to deal with them when we already have a system for securing dangerous lore.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
It was a fair point, I'm just largely also ambivalent on how to deal with them, and a large part of me feels they don't neatly slot into any particular place in our Imperium, which is normal and might even change as they themselves have changed to a degree already. Involvement in the Scholarum for example will likely make them unrecognizable from even their current form in a short time.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Probably feedstock consisting of lots of fish, a fairly steady influx of goat, sheep and ram from local shepherds, and a steady trickle of cows for the big bois like Balerion.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Maybe something along the lines of "they do not worship the proscribed entities, but instead turn such beings' own power against them, mitigating the danger they pose to the world by preventing them from aligning with even more dangerous entities (i.e. The Void)"?
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I was thinking they've probably grown accustomed to a diet of mostly seafood. Wouldn't be surprised if they have gotten pretty good at catching some if not themselves, either.
Landbound livestock is on the menu, I'm sure, but probably only in relatively small quantities.
Actually, on that front it might be a better idea to try and adjust the Scholarum. We've run into a bunch of irregularities recently as a result of trying to fit a bunch of disparate organizations into an academic framework. Maybe it's time to distinguish the Scholarum as a bureaucracy for managing arcane orders within the Imperium from the Scholarum as a school that teaches the arcane in Sorcerer's Deep.
Rather than force orders like the Faceless, Red Priests, etc. into being oddly specialized Scholarum mages, perhaps we should start issuing charters for schools and arcane orders that are given leave to self-regulate to a degree. Still under strict centralized oversight, of course. In fact it might strengthen our influence by making it clear that such institutions derive their legitimacy from the Imperium, and set precedent for how new orders are founded. As time goes on, there are going to be more and more coalitions of divine and arcane casters who want associate in a manner more formal than "a bunch of Scholarum mages who just so happen to be good at the same thing."
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Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
[X] Public knowledge of the matter will be the bringing of the House of Black and White into compliance with Imperial Law, which is fully true, at this time they are committing no ongoing breaches by omission or otherwise. The Faceless Men do not traditionally worship any proscribed against Gods, but their presence is integral to drawing power from the Faceless Gods' primary domain. Exclusion is more dangerous for reasons which would be cognito hazards in the mind of the uninitiated or untrained to reveal publicly.
-[X] Restricted (Scholarum, Inquisition, etc. but not necessarily Forbidden) details on the the doctrinal practice of idolatry to even proscribed against deities known to inhabit the Lower Planes by the practitioners of magic within the Faceless Men is that it is not true worship, identified by the fact that they worship a Concept of Death and draw power from a universal pool from which all deities with the domain do contribute, a perilous path to power that essentially only guarantees a high likelihood that the very same order that trains such mages has been responsible for eliminating rogue elements for centuries... thus far to terrifyingly good effect, the details of which are startlingly similar to the same manner of the well documented drawing of power from the Concept of Law many in the Scholarum now make use of, most well-known of all being Malarys. Anything else about this arrangement, I.E exact details of how it shakes out or how the class works or really what the true threat could do to those deities if they weren't involved in the system (Void-taint) is strictly Forbidden (Tier 3) knowledge, generally only known by Inquisitors, Lord Inquisitors, General Commissars and other agents of the Crown.
-[X] Public Reasoning for the Irregularity (not exception): They turn such beings' own power against them, mitigating the danger they pose to the world by preventing them from aligning their own conceptual weight with worse practitioner or entities and making the Faceless Men exceptionally good at rooting out their influence, reasoning that ones so devoted to Death in their own manner are effective at eliminating the corruption from wanton defilement of the dead. Less a case of accepting a lesser evil, and more that the benefits, despite the hazards, are too great to ignore and they are genuinely effective at keeping rogue elements who have fallen to dark powers under control.
--[X] Let it be known that it is a highly skill and infrastructure intensive exploitation of a specific association that only functions due to the weight of individual divine agreements by willing participants in the same structure.
-[X] Restricted (Scholarum, Inquisition, etc. but not necessarily Forbidden) details on the the doctrinal practice of idolatry to even proscribed against deities known to inhabit the Lower Planes by the practitioners of magic within the Faceless Men is that it is not true worship, identified by the fact that they worship a Concept of Death and draw power from a universal pool from which all deities with the domain do contribute, a perilous path to power that essentially only guarantees a high likelihood that the very same order that trains such mages has been responsible for eliminating rogue elements for centuries... thus far to terrifyingly good effect, the details of which are startlingly similar to the same manner of the well documented drawing of power from the Concept of Law many in the Scholarum now make use of, most well-known of all being Malarys. Anything else about this arrangement, I.E exact details of how it shakes out or how the class works or really what the true threat could do to those deities if they weren't involved in the system (Void-taint) is strictly Forbidden (Tier 3) knowledge, generally only known by Inquisitors, Lord Inquisitors, General Commissars and other agents of the Crown.
-[X] Public Reasoning for the Irregularity (not exception): They turn such beings' own power against them, mitigating the danger they pose to the world by preventing them from aligning their own conceptual weight with worse practitioner or entities and making the Faceless Men exceptionally good at rooting out their influence, reasoning that ones so devoted to Death in their own manner are effective at eliminating the corruption from wanton defilement of the dead. Less a case of accepting a lesser evil, and more that the benefits, despite the hazards, are too great to ignore and they are genuinely effective at keeping rogue elements who have fallen to dark powers under control.
--[X] Let it be known that it is a highly skill and infrastructure intensive exploitation of a specific association that only functions due to the weight of individual divine agreements by willing participants in the same structure.
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- Location
- Australia
Let it be known that it is a highly skill and infrastructure intensive exploitation of a specific association that only functions due to the weight of individual divine agreements by willing participants in the same structure.
It's not really telling people the secrets of the process but it highlights that the problematic elements are not being worshipped but constrained by their own nature, and that this is only possible because an alliance of domain sharing gods is helping out too.
It should then be quite clear that it can technically be seen as no violation and that if you think you can do it you better bring a few dozen gods with you, the recognised barrier for entry should be high enough to discourage anyone currently sane.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
The Scholarum does not control the curriculum in which organized religions teach their Sorcerer-Priests so long as they remain with the confines of Imperial Law as far as proscribed practices go, and the Scholarum is already the bureaucratic arm of governance which manages the practicing of magic in all its forms. It just also happens to run a quasi-research institution and educational arm which people are free to study at, or decline after obtaining their license to practice magic and documenting any ongoing research (which under standard Articles of Magic they might be inclined to have overseen by their peers if it is within the lines of Restricted practices).
Religions themselves have freedom in managing how they allocate their own resources in terms of research and manpower, they are just inclined to share in the same resources as the institution itself, and meet the same obligations when so called upon.
My point is that the various religious and arcane institutions in the Imperium don't really have an official place in the Scholarum. Individual practitioners do, but the Scholarum doesn't really recognize either collective obligations or privileges of entire organizations any different than the same number of 'freelance' practitioners who all just so happen to be in the same room. It assumes the same rules that apply to one person can be scaled up to an arbitrarily large group without needing to account for emergent properties.
I think we should at least consider establishing a process by which an arcane order can be officially chartered, and thereby gain official authority (and obligations) that it wouldn't otherwise possess. If we don't do so now then it's going to happen anyway with each organization making its own decision about how much influence it should have.
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I think that's going one level deeper than we need to. It's easy to get overly focused on the minutiae of bureaucracy.
There are already internal divisions/orders/organizations within the greater Scholarium umbrella, such as the Mysterium of Volantis or the Silver-Eye of Braavos, with each having their own internal governing rules, but that doesn't change the fact that they are still part of the Scholarium. Same goes for the Faceless. We don't need to regulate those, so long as they obey the rules of the Scholarium.
- Location
- Earth
Frankly the Scholarium rules are pretty great, imagine how much of a bigger pain in the ass it would be if we allowed fully Independent organisations without them being automatically under the Scholarium. I for one am glad the thread though ahead and made the rules what they are now.