He basically wanted to become YA
You know, R'hllor's overarching plan isn't dissimilar to our own. It is, arguably, one and the same. Turn all the cosmos into a dichotomous battleground of Light against Dark. Of course R'hllor would have the head this confrontation in the side of Light... he was brought into being as a god, his nature forbids him from playing any other part. Viserys can only bring together and unify so many disparate and distinct powers under one cause because he has the freedom and perspective of mortality.

Ultimately, our goal is to turn the final battle into one of light against dark. Only a lower case 'light.' Rather than all being bound to a single entity, all the factions of the world will bind themselves to a single cause. Not necessarily a perpetually unified future, merely the concept of a future.

R'hllor all but admitted we are the closest thing to his chosen one. Maybe we can convince him that are causes are actually the same thing, just seen from different perspectives?
He already accepts that. He just doesnt have any hope of anything better being possible. He's basically praying that we succeed while keeping the bulk of himself ready incase we dont.
 
Well in the even of a Void victory weve got ourselves an Armageddon option. Put Rhloor as the final fallback of our Imperial Deity. In the even of a total defeat dump all reserves into the Cosmic Duality Containment Protocol.


You know I really want to hear the other Gods opinions on this. Can you just imagine?
 
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Well in the even of a Void victory weve got ourselves an Armageddon option. Put Rhloor as the final fallback of our Imperial Deity. In the even of a total defeat dump all reserves into the Cosmic Duality Containment Protocol.


You know I really want to hear the other Gods opinions on this. Can you just imagine?
I hope we eventually start getting interludes of the Imperial gods chatting with each other.
 
@DragonParadox, where do we need to go to get proper lore on the Void?

The palaces of Ever Winter and the halls of the Bloodstone Emperor would have a great deal, though how much you could trust of that there is no way to tell. Otherwise look to the people who fought the Void, Hell did, but so did the Celestial Planes before they broke, maybe some of that lore remains. the Red Dragonflight fought them not only in flesh but in dreams but if any of that knowledge survived the rise of Valyria is hard to say. Maybe the Syrax or Meraxes know. The Old Gods kind of have lore of the Void, though they generally see it only though the prism of Winter with only the eldest of them remembering the pure form.
 
The palaces of Ever Winter and the halls of the Bloodstone Emperor would have a great deal, though how much you could trust of that there is no way to tell. Otherwise look to the people who fought the Void, Hell did, but so did the Celestial Planes before they broke, maybe some of that lore remains. the Red Dragonflight fought them not only in flesh but in dreams but if any of that knowledge survived the rise of Valyria is hard to say. Maybe the Syrax or Meraxes know. The Old Gods kind of have lore of the Void, though they generally see it only though the prism of Winter with only the eldest of them remembering the pure form.
Well, time to conquer the Others and murder the Bloodstone Emperor.
 
His plan strikes me as a pretty hefty gamble; how does he know the void can be controlled that way? It's from outside of creation in a way only matched by the far realms as far as we know. The others might be vulnerable to this tactic, but it also implicitly makes room at the cosmic table for something more intrinsically toxic than the Abyss itself.

If the void is capable of metastasizing to any degree then giving them this kind of foothold could just lead to multiple other tier threats popping up as the horrific soul cancer spreads.
 
[X] "So if I should fail, your plan will remain in place. Perhaps me for a martyr to light that final pyre and transcend what was and what could yet be."
-[X] Contrary to your expectations, this is not you speaking out in anger, but understanding. If things had fallen so far by then, you would hope to spite the Void, Asmodeus or whatever had heralded the destruction of your ambitions and hopes, even if it's upon the back of R'hllor the Red's pitiless march against the dying of light. There is much you do not agree with R'hllor upon, most evident in the false equivalence he weighs the free of slaves and measuring the merit of their loyalty upon the balance of the same blade, duty. And through seeking freedom upon twisted paths you ever shall walk in the company of others who have made the same choice, not freedom without worry or concern, but the ability to choose and the ability to reconsider. Better perhaps to say that you advocate agency rather than ambition without end, or you would not strive against becoming a god yourself.
-[X] And let it be said, you do not intend to fail.
-[X] "Let's make sure that won't be necessary, shall we?"
-[X] "I and a collective of other deities gather in common purpose, to place She of Many Colors in a compromising position, one with which a mighty blow could be dealt to Her, their plans sent tumbling, out of the picture for as long as it takes for them to lick their wounds. If we should be so lucky, let it be another age. I will settle for a mere century. She will not have the time to regain that ground, while we will far beyond the horizon, as this is the pivot upon which the future shall tilt, as any avalanche begins."
-[X] You explain the essentials of the plan if not the details so he can better empower the foci of the trap.
-[X] If he agrees, you have some questions he might be able to answer, though you aren't expecting him to share everything or really anything. What he does will inform you of what he wants you to concern yourself with.
 
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He already accepts that. He just doesnt have any hope of anything better being possible. He's basically praying that we succeed while keeping the bulk of himself ready incase we dont.
No, he sees Viserys's attempts as similar, but distinct from his own designs. What I'm proposing is to rhetorically ask something to the effect of, "What would a grand unification of all beings under the Light look like from a mortal perspective?"

Then answering, "Precisely like what I am doing now. Your ascension isn't guaranteed, but I see how such a future could be brought about unless you committed to a cause such as mine. At some point you are going to have to take a risk and fully back someone."

The way I see it, R'hllor is frozen in indecision. There is no way he believes that if he just waits long enough, power enough remake the cosmos will just fall in his lap. The only reason to hesitate is if he think a better opportunity will eventually come along. And that seems unlikely.
 
It also got another minor weak point - if the faith in Rhllor changes ...
[X] Crake
 
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Wow, I can't believe you've made ma like the Red God of all people.

You know, he reminds me of Varys with his wildly daring long-term plans that just might work...

To achieve a pure duality, there would be Rhllor on the one side, and the Other on the other side. No gods, devils or demons inbetween.
Considering the theology of the Red God regarding other "light" Gods ("they're just R'hllor in disguise"), he clearly intends to either absorb them, fuse with them, or steal their worshipers. Probably all three.
 
No, he sees Viserys's attempts as similar, but distinct from his own designs. What I'm proposing is to rhetorically ask something to the effect of, "What would a grand unification of all beings under the Light look like from a mortal perspective?"

Then answering, "Precisely like what I am doing now. Your ascension isn't guaranteed, but I see how such a future could be brought about unless you committed to a cause such as mine. At some point you are going to have to take a risk and fully back someone."

The way I see it, R'hllor is frozen in indecision. There is no way he believes that if he just waits long enough, power enough remake the cosmos will just fall in his lap. The only reason to hesitate is if he think a better opportunity will eventually come along. And that seems unlikely.

Keep in mind he has gained the worship of most of a continent one of the strongest gods in the world and that trend did not look like it was reversing, if anything Viserys has done more to blunt it than anything else that has come about since the Doom.
 
Just as a side note, before anyone invests into the thought-

Please, don't actually connect R'hlor to Imperial Deity.
Neither as a "Nuclear Option", nor as a 'regular' God.

Imperial Deity is a duality between a yet-to-be-implemented
[] Imperial Dream (a safe, reliable afterlife housing all Imperial Cirizens by default, if giving a straightforward choice in being sent off to their relevant god's afterlife)
and a
[] Giant battery, powered by millions and millions of people, essentialy the strongest Deity ever through sheer numbers.

Said battery's main task would be narratively shaping our Empire as a bulwark against assholes like Void and it's servants-
-similarly to what R'hlor planned really-

But also acting as a pick-me-up to "approved pantheon" of Deities (very good deal for said deities, since such energy won't be changing them, unlike regular belief).

...and also giving us the control over said battery's whole energy, at hand when most necessary.

R'hlor doesn't need that sort of power-up.
And he would inevitably muddle the themes of Imperial Deity if included, he's just too big narratively already, which would send all tumbling.

[X] Crake
 
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Just as a side note, before anyone invests into the thought-

Please, don't actually connect R'hlor to Imperial Deity.
Neither as a "Nuclear Option", nor as a 'regular' God.

Imperial Deity is a duality between a yet-to-be-implemented
[] Imperial Dream (a safe, reliable afterlife housing all Imperial Cirizens by default, if giving a straightforward choice in being sent off to their relevant god's afterlife)
and a
[] Giant battery, powered by millions and millions of people.

Said battery's main task would be narratively shaping our Empire as a bulwark against assholes like Void and it's servants-
-similarly to what R'hlor planned really-

But also acting as a pick-me-up to "approved pantheon" of Deities (very good deal for said deities, since such energy won't be changing them, unlike regular belief).


R'hlor doesn't need that sort of power-up.
And he would inevitably muddle the themes of Imperial Deity if included, he's just too big narratively already, which would send all tumbling.

[X] Crake
Arent we gonna connect the approved Gods to the deity as a sort of hub for the dead to more safely enter their afterlives if they so choose? The idea would be Viserys sets a failure plan to shove it all to the deities in the even it gets subverted or compromised somehow.

Like if the Imperium falls the saved power doent just leak away but gets directed to the survivors.
 
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Arent we gonna connect the approved Gods to the deity as a sort of hub for the dead to more safely enter their afterlives if they so choose?
I'm sure there would be a way for dead to move to other afterlives if they so choose -

Bottom line, we will make Imperial Outsiders, and entities for guiding souls around when Imperial Dream is activated.

But the base state would be "Imperial Dream only".

Movement starting only from there, as a hub, as you said.
But not connecting the Gods to ID, no.

I think it would, again, kinda tamper with the ID's narrative, which I think we want to keep as pure of other Deities' influence as we can.
 
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