It's not a perfect comparison, I was just looking for something with about the right level of personal distaste and conflict in belief system for comparison.

We're willing to compromise sure, but we do have limits, and so do they. The only claim I'm making is that we have a few key issues that fall beyond the bounds of compromise on either side.

If the seven can't come to terms with things like other gods, blood sacrifice, secular magic, and the state's monopoly on force it doesn't matter how many other issues we can agree on.

Further, I think the kind of existential horror of having someone perform remote brain surgery to control your opinions induces is a sour note that will be difficult to get over. We've not only tried that, we're still trying it right now, and they (the seven themselves) have to be aware of both of those things.

I could be wrong (and I'm hardly unbiased) but just deciding they'll come around eventually is a mistake. We need to consider what they want and why they're fighting us in the first place to figure out what will work.

So far it seems that neither side can compromise on the core issues without meeting what it considers a lose condition.
Honestly, I don't really expect us coming to any terms with Seven-the-Gods.
As yo urightfully point out, we tried (and still try) brainwashing them.

Gods are static, unless pushed really hard.
The "All my followers are dead and he has a God-Snake looming over me, I better be truthful"-hard.
Can we really push as hard as needed for them to come to terms with us?

Because I don't think we can.
Not without spilling much blood, which VIserys really wants to avoid IC.

And without coming to terms... We'll spill even more blood in the long run.
Either way it goes, I feel we'll have a slapfest with Seven the Deities, and we'll have to deal with it.

He has so many immunities that capture would only be possible by freezing his ass alive. At least the Pathfinder version of him.
*eyes Rina's prospective level-up PRC*
I have ideas on that front, I'm sure we'll manage.

*Hubris intensifies*
 
@Crake @Goldfish I've been putting some thought into the strategic situation for Slaver's Bay, and I got an idea.

When the time comes to move openly against the entire region and subjugate everything, we should build a massive naval fortress with corresponding warships on the Isle of Cedars. It perfectly straddles the mouth of the entire bay and cuts them off from everyone else unless they want to go overland.

Also it just seems like a nice place for a fortress in general.
 
Ahh the
"I have altered the deal. Pray I do not alter it further" plan. In all frank honesty Viserys would not make a deal he intended to break. Not only does it go against the tenants of our staunchest divine allies, it also is something we don't do.
To be fair, Old Gods are just that - allies, we do not personally prescribe to their every tenet, and hopefully never will.

If there is greater value in breaking our promise/oath... I think we should go for that, unless morally abhorrent to the point it will go against Viserys' character.
And most oaths we give would, in fact, be amoral to break, so it's fine either way...

Unless we make one.
So, let's not, yeah?
 
@Crake @Goldfish I've been putting some thought into the strategic situation for Slaver's Bay, and I got an idea.

When the time comes to move openly against the entire region and subjugate everything, we should build a massive naval fortress with corresponding warships on the Isle of Cedars. It perfectly straddles the mouth of the entire bay and cuts them off from everyone else unless they want to go overland.

Also it just seems like a nice place for a fortress in general.
It is a strategic position. It also appears to be very haunted, judging by the wiki page. So we should make it a visit in force when we do send somebody there.
 
@Crake @Goldfish I've been putting some thought into the strategic situation for Slaver's Bay, and I got an idea.

When the time comes to move openly against the entire region and subjugate everything, we should build a massive naval fortress with corresponding warships on the Isle of Cedars. It perfectly straddles the mouth of the entire bay and cuts them off from everyone else unless they want to go overland.

Also it just seems like a nice place for a fortress in general.

*Looks at the location*.

Oh yeah that would choke out any trade from that region. Granted it would also bring forth a coalition against us but I am okay with that. More corpses for the trees and all.
 
It is a strategic position. It also appears to be very haunted, judging by the wiki page. So we should make it a visit in force when we do send somebody there.
Haunted? That means the means to fast-grow trees are already present? Better and better ...
*Looks at the location*.

Oh yeah that would choke out any trade from that region. Granted it would also bring forth a coalition against us but I am okay with that. More corpses for the trees and all.
The corpses go to the forges; the haunts go to the trees. We are an orderly empire.
 
Interlude DCXLII: A Finer Print
A Finer Print

Twentieth Day of the Eleventh Month 293 AC

In his youth Aemon Naremos had briefly considered becoming an advocate, very briefly indeed for the intricacies of Volantene law, born not of any lawmaker's vision but the compromises of four centuries of common use, had repelled a mind that preferred the ordered lines of geography to the tangled weaves of rhetoric. He had certainly gotten quite a bit of use out of the former, mapping out the ley lines that crossed his new lands, flowing like unseen torrents from the burning husk of Old Valyria. Yet now here he was, returned from the fringes of civilization to the bustling and ever-sprawling Sorcerer's Deep working to find loopholes in law, only this was not a trial of any mortal judge, nor those indicted mere men.

"I think a commonality of ideal might be best here..." the soft golden light of the azata lady fell upon the parchments laid out before them, in their dancing light the symbols derived from book and scroll, dream and memory seemed to gain more of the life of that which they were meant to reflect, the Pact Primeval by which all the works of Hell were bound.

"If only they had one," Aemon sighed, reaching for his tea, Myrish Black, thick as tar and about as flavorful Aeron called it, but the mage did not care. Every magister should have at least one uncommon taste to make them stand apart from the crowd. Some might consider sorcery to be that eccentricity in his case, but Aemon suspected there would come a time when being an aristocrat without a drop of magic in your blood would be what is counted as quaint and he had every intention to live that long.

Gathering his thoughts he tried to explain: "The first Fall may have been precipitated by an ideal, a overarching desire, my lady, but devils crafted since have been made as..." he paused a moment, motioning for Gylseas, his false-wyrm assistant, to recover one of the notes princess Daenerys left on her rituals. "tools," he finished, pointing to the relevant piece of the ritual. "An affirmation of identity and purpose will work for any one breed of baatezu, of course, as her ritual shows, but it is only by working with the foundation that binds them all that we can remove them all from Hell's sphere."

For a long moment the fire spirit looked at him in silence, her face as impassive as a graven image upon the columns of the Temple of Meraxes. "You make a fair point, my lord, but I think also a mistake. One cannot use a portion of a chain as the instrument of freedom. If a commonality must exist between all baatezu who use this ritual than it must be one of experience, not service."

"All devils serve," Aemon replied automatically, quoting the First Truth of the Pact Primeval.

"Certainly..." a smile wistful and determined all at once showed upon her features. "Yet that is not all that they do. Though the Lord of the Ninth may dream himself a demiurge to break and reforge the Spheres in his image, that is nothing more than mad ambition. He does not rule the world of mortals nor yet the Spheres of the Elements, even the barren soil of Heaven rejects his purpose, albeit to the call of darker things." There was pain in her eyes such as the fleeting span of mortal years could not hold and a part of Aemon wished he could ask her to stop, but he knew that in sorcery wisdom oft grew in bitter soil so he listened.

"He does not have utter domination even over his own subjects," Bloom continued. "Else how could Mammon have performed his great folly?"

"That's it," Aemon exclaimed and excitedly grabbed his staff, struggling against the urge to smile fit to match the grin of the gilded fey skull set upon it. "We need to set up interviews, look for commonalities of experience that that can be tied back to Mammon's initial agreement. We shall undermine the Pact not as a chisel striking a mountain's face, but as a river working away at its roots unseen. "

The Final Contravention Progress 23/30

OOC: I was initially going to do a wider conversation regarding the differences in their current fiefs and how they manage it, but then the discussion on the nature of their actual project proved surprisingly engaging and relevant to character building so I just went with that.
 
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It is a strategic position. It also appears to be very haunted, judging by the wiki page. So we should make it a visit in force when we do send somebody there.
Obviously we'll clear it out beforehand. I'm looking forward to it. I'm suspicious it might be CR 20 or something if we're lucky.
*Looks at the location*.

Oh yeah that would choke out any trade from that region. Granted it would also bring forth a coalition against us but I am okay with that. More corpses for the trees and all.
Yeah, it would erupt a war almost instantly, but at the same time that's what I'm counting on. We can build a fuckoff fortress in less than a day, probably with pretty great magical warding to boot. At this stage the players on Prime Material aren't much of a legitimate threat.

I'd honestly be more worried about a Deep Ones attack if this ends up happening before they're purged from Prime Material.
 
Obviously we'll clear it out beforehand. I'm looking forward to it. I'm suspicious it might be CR 20 or something if we're lucky.
The wiki page you linked indicates it's haunted enough that Victarion Greyjoy noticed it in ASoIaF, and that guy is as spiritual as a plank. So I figure it's Harrenhal level haunted, yes. Also infested by monkeys, so we can expect some kind of monster monkey maybe?
 
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Wow, that was really cool. I'm usually not very hyped by technobabble, but the sheer insanity of the ambition shown here was just great!

I wonder how Malarys feels about all this...
 
The wiki page you linked indicates it's haunted enough that Victarion Greyjoy noticed it in ASoIaF, and that guy is as spiritual as a plank. So I figure it's Harrenhal level haunted, yes. Also infested by monkeys, so we can expect some kind of monster monkey maybe?
A monster monkey would be hilarious, but I'm more expecting a bunch of drowned undead or something. Everyone on the island got hit by an angry probably boiling hot tsunami when the Doom happened, so whatever haunts the ruins is likely directly related to that.
 
A monster monkey would be hilarious, but I'm more expecting a bunch of drowned undead or something. Everyone on the island got hit by an angry probably boiling hot tsunami when the Doom happened, so whatever haunts the ruins is likely directly related to that.
We'll probably get monkey monsters in the wilderness for the baby PCs and a major haunt in the ruins for a team of Companions.
 
I always love when we discuss the intricacies of the Spheres and the metahpysical conditions that influece and bind outsiders.

It makes us even more of a badass for breaking them.
 
A Finer Print

Twentieth Day of the Eleventh Month 293 AC

In his youth Aemon Naremos had briefly considered becoming an advocate. Very briefly indeed, for the intricacies of Volantine law, born not of any lawmaker's vision but the compromises of four centuries of common use, had repelled a mind that preferred the ordered lines of geography to the tangled weave of rhetoric. He had certainly gotten quite a bit of use out of the former, mapping the ley lines that crossed his new lands flowing like unseen torrents from the burning husk of Old Valyria. Yet now here he was, returned from the fringes of civilization to the bustling and ever-sprawling Sorcerer's Deep working to find loopholes in law, only this was not a trial of any mortal judge, nor those indicted mere men.

"I think a commonality of ideal might be best here..." the soft golden light of the azata lady fell upon the parchments laid out before them, in their dancing light the symbols derived from book and scroll, dream and memory, seeming to gain more of the life of that which they were meant to reflect, the Pact Primeval, by which all the works of hell were bound.

"If only they had one," Aemon sighed, reaching for his tea. Myrish Black, thick as tar and about as flavorful, Aeron called it, but the mage did not care. Every magister should have at least one uncommon taste, to make them stand apart from the crowd. Some might consider sorcery to be that eccentricity in his case, but Aemon suspected there would come a time when being an aristocrat without a drop of magic in your blood would be what is counted quaint, and he had every intention to live that long.

Gathering his thoughts, he tried to explain. "The first Fall may have been precipitated by an ideal, an overarching desire, my lady, but devils crafted since have been made as..." he paused a moment motioning for Gylseas, his false-wyrm assistant, to recover one of the notes princess Daenerys left on her rituals, "tools," he finished, pointing to the relevant piece of the ritual. "An affirmation of identity and purpose will work for any one breed of baatezu, of course, as her ritual shows, but it is only by working with the foundation that binds them all that we can remove them all from Hell's sphere."

For a long moment the spirit of flame looked at him in silence, her face as impassive as a graven image upon the columns of the Temple of Meraxes. "You make a fair point, my lord, but I think also a mistake. One cannot use a portion of a chain as the instrument of freedom. If a commonality must exist between all baatezu who use this ritual, then it must be one of experience rather than service."

"All devils serve," Aemon replied automatically, quoting the First Truth of the Pact Primeval.

"Certainly..." a smile, wistful and determined all at once, showed upon her features. "Yet that is not all that they do. Although the Lord of the Ninth may dream himself a demiurge to break and reforge the Spheres in his image, that that is nothing more than mad ambition. He does not rule the world of mortals, nor yet the spheres of the Elements. Even the barren soil of Heaven rejects his purpose, albeit to the call of darker things." There was pain in her eyes, such that the fleeting span of mortal years could not hold, and a part of Aemon wished he could ask her to stop, but he knew that in sorcery wisdom oft grew in bitter soil, so he listened.

"He does not have utter domination even over his own subjects," Bloom continued. "Else how could Mammon have performed his great folly?"

"That's it," Excitedly Aemon grabbed his staff, struggling against the urge to smile fit to match the grin of the gilded fey skull set upon it. "We need to set up interviews, look for commonalities of experience that that can be tied back to Mammon's initial agreement. We shall undermine the Pact not as a chisel striking a mountain's face, but as a river working away at its roots unseen."

The Final Contravention Progress 23/30

OOC: I was initially going to do wider conversation regarding the differences in their current fiefs and how they manage it, but then the discussion on the nature of their actual project proved surprisingly engaging and relevant to character building so I just want with that. Not yet edited.
Here's an edited version of the chapter, DP.

Very neat interlude. Way to go, research minions!
 
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