Excellent. They're worth more for sacrifices or experiments this way.
Actually, this seriously calls into question the practice of sacrificing sentient undead. Rina is proof positive that sentient undead can be tricked into servitude and, once they're returned to un-life, don't have a choice when it comes to serving the Others. If that was our guiding principle then we'd basically be forced to stake both Jeyne and Rina to a heart tree. Danny too, for that matter. I'm not suggesting we show mercy to sentient undead in battle, but when it comes to sacrifices and experiments we should consider figuring out the who, how, and why regarding the sentient undead's resurrection.
 
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Actually, this seriously calls into question the practice of sacrificing sentient undead. Rina is proof positive that sentient undead can be tricked into servitude and, once they're returned to un-life, don't have a choice when it comes to serving the Others. If that was our guiding principle then we'd basically be forced to stake Jeyne to a heart tree. I'm not suggesting we show mercy to sentient undead in battle, but when it comes to sacrifices and experiments...
Not for me it doesn't. Like everything, I'll always approach these things as a case by case basis. Does it benefit us to go out of our way to revive the undead? If so, proceed. If no, to the sacrifice/experiment pile they go.
 
Does it benefit us to go out of our way to revive the undead? If so, proceed. If no, to the sacrifice/experiment pile they go.
Well, the greater ones are almost always worth it, but sometimes they are just more valuable as sacrifices.
Think of the Mythic Wight Lord, getting him on our side would have been awesome, but we didn't even check if he was an unwilling minion.
 
Well, the greater ones are almost always worth it, but sometimes they are just more valuable as sacrifices.
Think of the Mythic Wight Lord, getting him on our side would have been awesome, but we didn't even check if he was an unwilling minion.
Usually there will be enough baggage that it's really not worth it.

The Mythic Ancient Wight Lord was probably completely insane (millennia of being trapped with the Others as his master, and not having a dragon's mental fortitude).

The shade in the manse in Volantis would have caused a huge political uproar and at the very least problems with Teana and Zherys who both wanted him to stay dead.

Etc.

It'd be nice if powerful undead were normally recruitable, but there are usually very good reasons they're not. I'd rather just rely on Qyburn to make our own undead.

This is why the ones we capture are just sacrificed. It doesn't matter if they have a sob story, what matters is they're fuel that the gods need for the Long Night, that experimenting on them gives us an edge against the monsters at our doors.
 
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Well, the greater ones are almost always worth it, but sometimes they are just more valuable as sacrifices.
Think of the Mythic Wight Lord, getting him on our side would have been awesome, but we didn't even check if he was an unwilling minion.
Mind you that it's unlikely for the Others to invest that much power in unwilling servants without a pressing need.
 
Mind you that it's unlikely for the Others to invest that much power in unwilling servants without a pressing need.
I get the feeling that the Mythic Ancient Wight Lord was basically a stronger-than-usual foot soldier in the armies of the Others...

Also with the fact that the Necromancy lore the Boltons stole from the Others has to be by nature incomplete, I am very curious about the kinds of things the Others have accomplished in the field.

I'm guessing there was a big process in transforming White Dragons to Frost Dragons related to all this.
Do we know for sure how much they invested?

Maybe he was already a mythic hero before his death and they only invested as much power as needed to control him.
@Artemis1992, remember that one spell you wanted for Viserys next level? The one you could bestow temporary Mythic Ranks onto others? Maybe it's like that, to an extent.

The Others are the fallen Winter Court, and we've long suspected powerful Fey being capable of granting their minions Mythic Ranks on a whim simply because "It's fitting due to your role in my court, as if a vassal lord of mine wouldn't be mythic."
 
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Actually, this seriously calls into question the practice of sacrificing sentient undead. Rina is proof positive that sentient undead can be tricked into servitude and, once they're returned to un-life, don't have a choice when it comes to serving the Others. If that was our guiding principle then we'd basically be forced to stake both Jeyne and Rina to a heart tree. Danny too, for that matter. I'm not suggesting we show mercy to sentient undead in battle, but when it comes to sacrifices and experiments we should consider figuring out the who, how, and why regarding the sentient undead's resurrection.
There is also the issue of the power required to Ressurect sentient Undead. Rina was a special case and it took a huge amount of power to not only restore her, but break her connection to the Others. Literal Divine intervention was needed, IIRC. And she had only been in their clutches for a matter of days, rather than years, decades, or centuries.

Rather than being huge power sinks, they are typically better as power sources via sacrifice.
 
...So, shall we get started on that "make sentient undead not leak out Negative Energy"-Research any time soon?
I personally don't see it as anywhat close to a priority with how few of them are recrutable... considering just what sort of beings field Sentient Undead in-setting...

But maybe any of ya'll have anything to say on that?
[] Stabilization of Sentient Undead: While the process to craft lesser undead has been greatly refined, those who still posses sentience are a different matter. Their state makes the process meant to stabilize a soulless husk impossible to apply, but further research might be able to find an alternative. (Progress 30, Cost 100,000 IM, needs at least one sentient undead as a test subject
--------------------------
Also, @Azel, as you are the brain behind the research line, I feel like I should adress that question to you still-
no matter how uncomfortable I am referring to you even now
Just what anti-Other prospects can we see IC in working with the lore Boltons stole and Qyburn worked on?

I'm finding myself rather stumped trying to phrase an RA to set him on developing weapons, when we don't know what he found (if anything) of note about the weaknesses of Other-Undead, or somesuch.
 
...So, shall we get started on that "make sentient undead not leak out Negative Energy"-Research any time soon?
I personally don't see it as anywhat close to a priority with how few of them are recrutable... considering just what sort of beings field Sentient Undead in-setting...

But maybe any of ya'll have anything to say on that?

--------------------------
Also, @Azel, as you are the brain behind the research line, I feel like I should adress that question to you still-
no matter how uncomfortable I am referring to you even now
Just what anti-Other prospects can we see IC in working with the lore Boltons stole and Qyburn worked on?

I'm finding myself rather stumped trying to phrase an RA to set him on developing weapons, when we don't know what he found (if anything) of note about the weaknesses of Other-Undead, or somesuch.
I'm in support of starting it. This is Qyburn's Magnum Opus, and I've wanted it ever since I saw it. Not for recruiting people though. I'm just glad we can finally have undead that can stay undead.
 
...So, shall we get started on that "make sentient undead not leak out Negative Energy"-Research any time soon?
I personally don't see it as anywhat close to a priority with how few of them are recrutable... considering just what sort of beings field Sentient Undead in-setting...

But maybe any of ya'll have anything to say on that?
Well, it also enables you to safely make sentient undead, both of "autonomous construct like"-kind and the Lich-kind. Though additional research might be required for some of these things.

Also, @Azel, as you are the brain behind the research line, I feel like I should adress that question to you still-
no matter how uncomfortable I am referring to you even now
Just what anti-Other prospects can we see IC in working with the lore Boltons stole and Qyburn worked on?

I'm finding myself rather stumped trying to phrase an RA to set him on developing weapons, when we don't know what he found (if anything) of note about the weaknesses of Other-Undead, or somesuch.
You would need a 'living' specimen of the Others power for Qyburn to dissect. He has a bunch of leads and ideas in regards to how Other made or controlled undead differ from the regular kind, but he never could test them.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Nov 5, 2019 at 2:58 PM, finished with 53 posts and 15 votes.

  • [X] Leave the mask as is, the powerful energies making up tre trap for the unwary can serve as a good sacrifice to your Gods.
    -[X] Request the access to whatever Psionic lore they consider justifiable to share with us, as well as everything they can share about Aberrations in general, and Illithids specifically.
    --[X] We will pay fairly for any lore they are willing to share, and perhaps even offer some of ours if they are interested in any we don't consider dangerous secrets.
    -[X] Offer them access to Fleshforged and Plantforged creatures, made to their specifications.
    [X] Ask Randar to remove the mind seed entirely
    [X] Offer the mask to Randar as a true gift (no strings attached).
 
Part MMMCXLXVIII: Reflections of the Flesh
Reflections of the Flesh

Nineteenth Day of the Eleventh Month 293 AC

"I think... I would rather leave the mask be, elder one," you say, a touch surprise by the mingled look of relief and disappointment that flashes over Jeyne's face. Did she fancy trying her luck wrestling with the mind of an illithid to test herself? "Powers meant to trap the unwary would make for a powerful sacrifice to the gods of my realm, some of which despise the Deep Masters with particular fervor."

"Of course," Randar replies, handing the mask back. "I had not considered that means to removing the corruption, though I should have. Gods are demanding beings, but the best of them to have their worshippers' interests in mind."

Interesting... Another people without much use for the divine it seems. There is nothing of the genies' lofty dismissal to the words, however, this feels more like the genuine confusion of someone who forgot some obscure detail. You wonder if faith in the gods is too at odds with a way of life turned to self-perfection through one's own efforts or if the shifting realm of limbo is too changeable to give birth to gods that the ordered souls of the githzerai would be drawn to. Perhaps it is a bit of both, though that does beg the question of where their souls pass to in death. You doubt they would be so foolish as to let them fly upon the tides of the Astral Sea where they will.

Alas, that is not the sort of lore you can simply ask for, but there are others that are more easily posed, the basics of mind lore that do not require a master's teaching in, and of course lore regarding your common foe.

The Grandmaster is amenable, though he explains that it will take a moonturn more to translate everything to parchment and ink rather than crystal-forged memory that only Jeyne can make use of in all your realm. "For now, these might perhaps be of some interest to you," the monk says as three pale green shards materialize in his palm.

Though Jeyne picks them up gingerly her thanks is heartfelt.

"There is one other object we recovered from the same dragon's hoard, a far less wholesome thing." You go on to describe the twisted statue as best you can even put into words about its visage. "It appears to have driven the dragon insane as well as infused the waters all around with the influence of the Far Realm. Like the mask I think it would likely be safer to sacrifice, but I wish to know precisely what it is before committing to the task."

"A wise precaution, some of the Slave Masters' relics are best kept contained rather than destroyed lest they pollute more of the world in their sundering. I shall see which of the masters of the Inner Eye can return with you to see this idol," Randar replies, leaving you to wonder if his monastery possesses some secret vault full of profane relics too dangerous to sunder. You certainly would not mind trying your hand, or more specifically the hand of the Merling King, Yss and the Old Gods at it, but that too is not a question you can ask so soon into your alliance.

Fortunately, you can do more than merely wait for the battles to come and go to prove the worth of your friendship. You speak of the Flesh Forge, both of Gogossos and Lys, careful to explain as you had in Vialesk that these complexes had very little in common with the arts of the Deep Ones and were in no way beholden to them.

"A proposal unlike any we have ever received," Silence stretches out uncomfortably as the Grandmaster considers the matter. Finally he sighs. "I must admit part of me wishes to refuse out of hand, knowing that the gith, like so many other slaves, were born in places not unlike your Flesh Forges, but that would be an affront against the Path of Reason. You do not make slaves, only beasts that might be trained to do simple tasks. Something that might serve as a long distance engine would be of use for a beginning. We are not the most skilled of engineers and not many choose to be archers."

What do you propose?

[] Write in

OOC: This has to be an open vote since there are just so many possibilities for flesh-forging.
 
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Well, it also enables you to safely make sentient undead, both of "autonomous construct like"-kind and the Lich-kind. Though additional research might be required for some of these things.


You would need a 'living' specimen of the Others power for Qyburn to dissect. He has a bunch of leads and ideas in regards to how Other made or controlled undead differ from the regular kind, but he never could test them.
All of my yes.

Though I am very torn between sacrificing an Other to the Old Gods and giving one to Qyburn... but Qyburn is definitely getting one.
 
You better should not expect Qyburn to leave it alive. He wants to do !!SCIENCE!! on it after all.
Pfft.
Why kill one, when one can instead (attempt to) trap it in a state between Death and Undeath?
That way, one can get all the benefits of the package.

And also fit in nicely with the Mad!Genius themes.
:V

For real though, I don't mind.

------------------------------------------
That's what, now...
Winter-touched creatures for Djinn Criomancers, and Wnter-forged Undead for Qyburn, yes?

It seems that we might just try for a Beyond-the-Wall trip after Tiamat, instead of Valyria/Snek Cities/more pf extraplanar shenanigansl, if we want those Research Projects done in reasonable timeframes.
 
...What was the damage on those Nightmare-trees from Gogossos, again..?

...Malarys' gonna hate us the moment he learns of us making more.
}: V
 
"Peril!" The single word, spoken aloud and mentally all at once, cuts off the pleasant thought as cleanly as a headsman's axe. Something sharp cuts through the air, almost faster than the eye can see. You and Ser Richard are unharmed by armor and scale, but Malarys' breastplate does not guard him as well. Blood leaks among the vines as the magelord clenches his teeth against the pain, or perhaps against saying something undiplomatic to your guide.

Malarys takes 52 Damage

Shadow Gasper apologizes just the same: "Pardon, patrons. The Trigger Trees move without warning. I will provide healing at my own expense."

"No need," you assure him, reaching out with a cupped hand filled with golden light to heal Malarys' wounds. A shower of tiny clinks fill the air as the projectiles are pushed out of his flesh. Curious, you glance down to see that they are more like diminutive bony disks than anything you would call a dart, with a small dark spot that looks like a seed in the middle. The bodies of their more unfortunate victims must make fine seedbeds for future trees, though one thing still intrigues you. "What do you mean they move?"

The ancient jungle giants on either side of the broken stone path you are walking look like they have been here since before the city fell into ruin, some sort of garden or park gone wild. They certainly do not look lively enough to walk.

"They would make poor hunters if you could see them easily," Shadow Grasper replies, reverting to speech once again, as was courteous for his people outside of those times when it would break cover.

Of course, 'the trees would make poor hunters', you should have thought of that. You snort internally at the notion, resolved to return and discover by which magic the things used not only to move but disguise themselves as well.
Found it.
@DragonParadox, what was that tree-weapon, again?
Can we include that into any plantforged creatures?
 
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