Meh. How much evil has she actually done? She's empowered Lannister defenses, but that makes a lot of sense seeing as most of Tywin's enemies are genuinely horrible.

The whole "bind magelings with Geas" thing isn't a huge issue, honestly. It's fucked up, but I can easily see how they'd end up doing that (especially when fighting devils and Diplomancers like us).
It's also far better than what Malarys did, for example.

She's either in it for power (fine with us) or she was misguided and talked into it (also fine with us, we'll be doing the talking now and can simply keep her away from a leadership position now).
We're going to kill a shit ton of her relatives, and deprive her children of their birthright. We're going to annihilate an institution she has great power in and benefits greatly from. We're going to turn her homeland into a hostile place for her and her close family. Why would she ever sincerely want to help us? It'd only ever be because she didn't have a better option. For us to meaningfully use her we need to trust her to act in our best interests.

The other thing is that every moment we leave her alone is another that she's working against us. Talking is not a free action, even on the strategic scale. I don't know how they could do something like kill us, but they could hurt something I'm sure, and the only way to consistently win is to take threats seriously and act to remove them.

Reading our habits towards Westeros gives me this image of someone in a bar fight too busy admiring the rings another guy is wearing to notice he's about to get punched in the face.

I don't want to listen to "six seconds" being whispered at us from Westeros to Yi Ti because we were too high on draconic power to notice the sucker punch.

Edit: missing word
 
We're going to kill a shit ton of her relatives, and deprive her children of their birthright. We're going to annihilate an institution she has great power in and benefits greatly from. We're going to turn her homeland into a hostile place for her and her close family. Why would she ever sincerely want to help us? It'd only ever be because she didn't have a better option. For us to meaningfully use her we need to trust her to act in our best interests.
For all I care she can keep Castamere if she surrenders early enough and the Goldshields will be folded into the Scholarium.
Her children will be no worse off than they would be now.

And all in all we are still fighting against the same enemies she has been fighting most of her time here.

She is far from the least trustworthy minion, we have people like Zherys whos dreams and ambitions where shattered on several levels by our work and some discoveries we told him about.
 
Well, this is saddening. Are you really not interested in looting the entire order of Golden Shields? Do you intend to just kill them all?
What about those we don't face in battle? Or those who survive?

I was hoping to loot a bunch of them and scatter them around our empire, and then to have Lanna teach in some Scholarum branch somewhere. Maybe Naath?
 
We're going to kill a shit ton of her relatives, and deprive her children of their birthright. We're going to annihilate an institution she has great power in and benefits greatly from. We're going to turn her homeland into a hostile place for her and her close family. Why would she ever sincerely want to help us? It'd only ever be because she didn't have a better option. For us to meaningfully use her we need to trust her to act in our best interests.

The other thing is that every moment we leave her alone is another that she's working against us. Talking is not a free action, even on the strategic scale. I don't know how they could do something like kill us, but they could hurt something I'm sure, and the only way to consistently win is to take threats seriously and act to remove them.

Reading our habits towards Westeros gives me this image of someone in a bar fight too busy admiring the rings another guy is wearing to notice he's about to get punched in the face.

I don't want to listen to "six seconds" being whispered at us from Westeros to Yi Ti because we were too high on draconic power to notice the sucker punch.

Edit: missing word
You really do not understand what we're going to do. First of all, most of her extended family is expected to surrender and we probably won't execute the whole lot, only those we know did things that are actually execution worthy. If we did that sort of thing it'd hurt us politically more than it gains us, see the way we treated the Essosi.

Second, if she works for us she can get new power, a new institution and even a new birthright for those children (I want to give Castamere to that Reyne guy we found, but there'll be empty castles galore around Westeros so I'm sure we'll find something for her).

Third, she has children. That means no crazy gambles and no guerrilla war campaigns, because you can't take children on those and she has nowhere to stash them.

Fourth, you're misreading Lanna. She's not that concerned about holding on to all she has, nor does she despise us. Refusing to target Daenerys because she's a little girl is not the action of someone who is willing to do anything in order to keep her position.

Finally, she just can't do what you're worried she might because you can't pull two parties worth (seriously, we've a shit-ton of Companions) of high level PCs and gear out of thin air.
 
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Well, this is saddening. Are you really not interested in looting the entire order of Golden Shields? Do you intend to just kill them all?
What about those we don't face in battle? Or those who survive?

I was hoping to loot a bunch of them and scatter them around our empire, and then to have Lanna teach in some Scholarum branch somewhere. Maybe Naath?

No, I'll dissolve the organization, the mages themselves will be folded into a Scholarium branch, preferably in another Kingdom altogether. And scattered. Maybe even some sent overseas on rotation. And most will have a thick file in Inquisition Archives kept up to date.

Edit: That's just what I'd do... and what I'll argue for. But seriously, leaving that clown show intact to me seems like a non-starter.
 
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We're going to kill a shit ton of her relatives, and deprive her children of their birthright. We're going to annihilate an institution she has great power in and benefits greatly from. We're going to turn her homeland into a hostile place for her and her close family. Why would she ever sincerely want to help us? It'd only ever be because she didn't have a better option. For us to meaningfully use her we need to trust her to act in our best interests.

The other thing is that every moment we leave her alone is another that she's working against us. Talking is not a free action, even on the strategic scale. I don't know how they could do something like kill us, but they could hurt something I'm sure, and the only way to consistently win is to take threats seriously and act to remove them.

Reading our habits towards Westeros gives me this image of someone in a bar fight too busy admiring the rings another guy is wearing to notice he's about to get punched in the face.

I don't want to listen to "six seconds" being whispered at us from Westeros to Yi Ti because we were too high on draconic power to notice the sucker punch.

Edit: missing word

Folding existing power structures and people into the realm if far more efficient than trying to destroy such, root and branch. Further, there would be a sharp decline in reputation to the former. If she can be trusted... A rather big 'if', but one worth considering for the potential benefits brought. They are absolutely getting shuffled about though - no point to leaving potential rebels yet connected. Would undermine the realm's authority as well, to not have every mage part of the Scholarium, for example.
 
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No, I'll dissolve the organization, the mages themselves will be folded into a Scholarium branch, preferably in another Kingdom altogether. And scattered. Maybe even some sent overseas on rotation. And most will have a thick file in Inquisition Archives kept up to date.

Edit: That's just what I'd do... and what I'll argue for. But seriously, leaving that clown show intact to me seems like a non-starter.

Optimally this is what I would do with her organization. Seize their research, their lore and any artifacts of value. Then move the various mages across the multitudes of our the Imperium while having a folder on all of them like Crake does. Her role in this is wholly dependent on how she reacts to the surrender proclamation. For now let's say should she surrender we will keep her either close to us as a researchers or we will send her to a distant Scholarium and keep a hefty eye on her so as make sure she isn't teaching rebellious nonsense. If she doesnt surrender then the point above is moot.
 
Optimally this is what I would do with her organization. Seize their research, their lore and any artifacts of value. Then move the various mages across the multitudes of our the Imperium while having a folder on all of them like Crake does. Her role in this is wholly dependent on how she reacts to the surrender proclamation. For now let's say should she surrender we will keep her either close to us as a researchers or we will send her to a distant Scholarium and keep a hefty eye on her so as make sure she isn't teaching rebellious nonsense. If she doesnt surrender then the point above is moot.
I'd really prefer her in Sorcerer's Deep, rather than out in the boonies. Why? Because in a small branch she'd easily be the most powerful person they've got, while in Sorcerer's Deep she's just another powerful caster, of the many who live there.
 
I'd really prefer her in Sorcerer's Deep, rather than out in the boonies. Why? Because in a small branch she'd easily be the most powerful person they've got, while in Sorcerer's Deep she's just another powerful caster, of the many who live there.

That did come to mind as the reason as to the first option. Preferably I want a mage constantly churning out ritual spells and she could be the one...then again we could make a mage for it in the forge now. Now that I think about it. We can make 1 CR 15 monster. Put the Wizard template on. Make it specialize in ritual making...hmmm thoughts.

Are you o.k? You seem really freaked out by this.

She is a threat and working for the Lannisters. I understand the issues he has.
 
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Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Sep 20, 2019 at 11:27 AM, finished with 64 posts and 11 votes.
 
Part MMMLXXI: In the Mother's Woods
In the Mother's Woods

Twenty-Ninth Day of the Tenth Month 293 AC

As you walk through the starlit woods you find yourself faintly melancholy thinking of how many times you had asked to hunt or ride through the Kingswood as a boy, but each time you asked your mother she had refused, more likely than not due to your father's budding paranoia. You have seen stranger and more wondrous places since then, but the irony remains that you can never quite see the woods as you would have as a boy. The shadows do not hide anything from your sight and the tremble of every blade of grass marks the passage of every rabbit or other small burrowing thing through the underbrush clear and unmistakable against your sharpened senses. A wolf howls somewhere in the distance, far enough that it could almost be mistaken for the voice of the wind through the trees.

Is that what Lord Mallery is hunting? you wonder. Or is he merely hunting for that most illusory of beasts, the world as it once was, a son not touched by whatever horror he had found in these woods? There is only one way to find out. You pass the sentries around the trio of fires unseen, hardly slowing in your pace, then you lean down and briefly touch the blond-haired boy wrapped in his cloak, shifting uneasily in slumber, weaving a spell of mind-speaking into being.

"Pardon the intrusion, Edric, but I really must speak with you. It's about your brother," you send, ready to stop him from waking the camp should he react with fear.

"Umh... What?" The muddled thought rises to the surface of his mind. "Who's there?" He asks more urgently, shifting on the hard mossy ground.

"No need to speak, think the words." There is really no way to dance around the question. "I am Viserys Targaryen..."

"I... Your Gr—I mean..."
Titles and forms of address tumble through his sleep-addled mind like leaves in autumn.

"Whether you call me king, lord, or nothing at all is up to you, Edric. I did not come here looking for courtesies," you cut him off before he can tangle himself any further.

"Where are you?" he asks after a moment, a note of suspicion entering his words.

"Beside you, veiled by magic." After a quick look at the guard to ensure he was not looking this way, you drop the glamour momentarily before taking it up again.

He takes a moment to absorb the strangeness of the situation, glances then over to where his father is sleeping heavily, gathering his courage he asks: "What did you mean about Denys? Are you going to get him back from the Lannisters?" Though he does not ask as much you can practically see scenes of daring rescues reflected in his gaze.

"Ideally I am going to persuade your father to ask for him back, but to do that I need to know why he was so keen to send him away." You pause a moment and add, "I have spoken to your lady mother on the matter, but she does not know much about what happened that day."

"It won't matter, he'll twist it and make Denys out to be a monster whatever I say!"
Anger burns slow and steady behind the thought. Varys had thought it a childish outburst, but you are not so sure she judged him right. Lord Mallery had managed to earn the ire of his heir as much as his wife.

"It matters to me, quite a lot actually, and it matters to the realm," you answer simply.

Edric's spine straightens in response, his thoughts more steady. "There was a storm, we got lost, we shouldn't have been out but we were. We found this hideout, Denys called it a cave but it was more like an overgrown rabbit warren, to hide in, only it was deeper than we thought... We went in and... we found them." He falters for a moment before gathering his courage again. "Dead men... long dead they were, bleached bones and hollow skulls, but they didn't stay still for long. They caught me and they held me... How could they be so strong with only bone and no flesh?"

"The Living Dead can be a terror even without anything left of their bodies. You were lucky to survive at all,"
you interject gently.

"It wasn't luck, it was Denys, I couldn't do anything but he talked to them, asked them what they wanted. The one with the broken neck said they were the bones of the Kingswood Brotherhood and that he was Simon Toyne himself, that he felt our blood... that it was his blood, too..." Disgust and shame marks his features.

"The Toynes were a noble family of the Crownlands in good standing for many years before the House fell into royal displeasure," you note. If memory serves it was more the fault of Aegon the Unworthy than Ser Terrence Toyne, but that is not a point to make in present company. "I would wager all the families bordering the Kingswood and many beyond have Toyne blood," you add instead. "What did the dead ask your brother to do?"

"Lay them to rest like men, not the gnawed bones of beasts they said,"
Edric takes up his story again. "We didn't know where we would find a septon... but then animals started showing up, wild animals like deer and boar. They helped dig the grave and Denys got this far-away look in his eyes and he said he didn't need a septon anymore. He told the dead to lay down in the hole and spoke a bunch of old words... really old he said."

For a long moment it looks like the boy isn't going to finish his tale, like he does not dare to. Hardly daring to think the words Edric adds "He said that they should rest easy in the name of Mother Earth.... and they did. If apostasy is wrong then why did the dead rest easy?" The question has an air of desperation.

What do you reply?

[] Write in

OOC: I hope all the italics do not make this hard to read. I considered getting rid of them, but it's actually pretty relevant that this conversation is taking place mentally and I did not want to cause any confusion as to how you are saying all this aloud a few feet from Lord Mallery.
 
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Ok, so he is a cleric of mother Earth.

That's... Well it's not apostasy. From the mouths of the chosen themselves they count not all spirits and gods aside from the seven wicked.

He's probably going to be in for a rough time at the school. Training your priests to be wizards... Usually doesn't go super well.

Wanna give him a quick run down, and then talk with his dad?
 
Well, that's unfortunate. We missed out on a potential cleric/druid/adept of Mother Earth.
Fuck all kinds of duck.
And just after we failed to find anything of substance on the Deity on the isles where last worshippers have been recorded.

Oh well, one more reason to hate Lannisters now :V
 
Given here themes cleric seems more likely than druid. As far as you know only the old gods have druids. Also if you could convince Lord Mallery to ask for his son back Viserys considers almost guaranteed that he will be. Anything else would be tantamount to a declaration of war.
Was Lord Mallery inclined to boot him solely on grounds of apostasy or did the Lannister envoys prey on his doubt?
 
I know the thread would never go for it, but getting Danelle to train him seems all kinds of delicious to me.

I can just imagine all the Sept worshippers shuffling around awkwardly as their chosen teaches someone to worship another god.

Ah well.
 
For what's my word is worth on this, I don't want Golden Shields either.
Their organisation will be disbanded as throughly as we can - and people redistributed in accordance with our stuctures and laws.
Same shit as Maesters, yes?

Lannisters are getting eradicated as a family name - and we'll surely kill some people they care about.
Lana won't be thrilled to work for us, and a caster like her is a danger unless absolutely loyal -

At least Zherys has a much greater Doom hanging over his head with the 15th - and we are his only chance to prevail over it, so his loyalty is assured for a while at least.

With Lana, I don't really think we'll have anything like that.
"Mutual enemies" don't fill the niche 15th does for Valyrians.
They really don't.

I'm with Crake and Duesal on this.
They get one warning at the start - if they fail to surrender, I'm going to push to target them specifically as one of the few main forces in Westeros actually dangerous to us, and eradicating with prejiduce.

If they do surrender... Lots of scrutiny. And paranoia.
We haven't done nearly the "bad" things to Zherys we are going to do to their Family there.
Lana will be a huge (potential) risk on our part, wherever we assign her.

But at least she'll live, I guess..?
 
So I am going to say that we shouldn't try to get him...as much as I want to do otherwise. As much as every fibre of my being is saying to go to Castamere and tear them apart for this boy I can't support it..this is very painful someone please take over.
 
I know the thread would never go for it, but getting Danelle to train him seems all kinds of delicious to me.

You are correct. Fuck no. We don't need the Seven to influence a brand new church from which it could be born.

Lord Mallery did not know about the apostasy, the boys never told anyone the story until now. He wanted to get rid of Denys because he thought the magic was somehow to blame for Edric's trauma.

What an absolute cunt. Can we just shank him? Or have him retire somewhere?
 
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But seriously, leaving that clown show intact to me seems like a non-starter.
Clown show ? The Golden Shields are not a clown show, that's why we have problems with them in the first place !
They are competent, resourceful, and have agency that is believable. 10/10 QMing, DP ! I love antagonists who do things !
 
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