@Goldfish @Crake

I'm not to sure about mentioning her father's health but if we do we should use the same breath to segue into her own status and how it is far more secure for a woman to hold a title under our aegis.
 
Canon Omake: A Calling
Omake - A Calling
Tenth Day of the Tenth Month 293 AC

"God's teeth boy! Get your head out of the clouds and mind what you're doing damn it!" Tobho Mott growled after giving Gendry a clout to the head. "The steel is ruined now, you pumped the bellows too hot. You're lucky it wasn't a real attempt at Valyrian steel or you'd be out on your ass boy."

Gendry ducked his head and quickly apologized, "I'm sorry sir. I'll do better."

Tobho sighed and ran a hand over his face.

"You've been distracted off and on for a few weeks. You haven't been as dependable as you were in Kings Landing. Is that it? You homesick boy? I can't have you distracted and negligent in your smithing boy. Go back if you can't fix whatever is going on in your head."

"That's not it sir," Gendry mumbled out. "I... I've been having odd dreams ever since that big storm those weeks ago. They leave me uneasy in the mornings."

Tobho Mott grunted. "Whatever they are, I can't have you ruining my work while you're all mutton headed. Go clear your head. However you need to. Talk to the Trees, the Snake, or the King for all I care. Don't come back until you're ready to give me your full attention. Now go." Tobho motionedfor Gendry to leave.

Gendry fidgeted with his pockets and slowly pulled off his leathers. Nodding his head he walked to the door. Pausing at the doorway he turned and looked back. "I'll be back soon Master Mott. I'm sorry for letting you down." Gendry made his way outside into the midday sun.

"Mmm. I'll have to get Padraig from the Inquisition look after him and make sure he doesn't end up in the gutter. Maybe he can help him with those dreams. Little bastard making me worry for him. He's a good lad. Good steady hand, picks up technique easily, patient, and doesn't incessantly chatter. I'll make a blacksmith of him yet. As long as he comes back that is." Mott thought with a frown.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Gendry meandered Sorcerer's Deep until he found himself outside the Beast Witches' hut. He'd looked around until he saw his sister. It had been an odd transition. One day he's a water logged bastard weary from ship travel; with no one except his master smith. And the next he has an older sibling who's also another bastard of the King in Westeros. It had been a bit much to wrap his head around, so Gendry had just focused on one simple fact. He had a sister.

They'd formed a habit of visiting on days off and sharing about what the Eyrie and Kings Landing had been like. Slowly they'd gotten used to each other, and looked forward to the visits and getting to know their new brother and sister.

Gendry had caught Mya brushing one of the stone horses down, and they'd settled into simple conversations about their current projects. Gendry had climbed the fence, while Mya continued her ministrations.

"So what are these dreams you're having that caused Mott to throw you out?" Mya asked while running a metal brush over the stone bodied mare.

Gendry squirmed, unsure of where to start. On a gentle encouragement he took a breath and focused.

"They started with that great storm the other week. Now every time a storm comes in I dream of a deep voice calling me. 'Return to me blood of Elenei. Claim my power and smite our foes. Purge them from this world.' He shows me battles in my dreams. I wield a war hammer against these walking squid monsters. Dark ichor stains the battlefield and I bring down the anger and might of the storm upon them. My blows crackle with lightning and turn their forms to ash. In another I wade through walking corpses; sword in hand. Cutting my way to an even uglier man of death. I bury the blade in his skull and smash his body into the ground. Another shows me throwing an almighty lightning bolt against a mass of brains. These dreams wake me up with my heart racing. But I'm not scared. I feel alive with adrenaline coursing through me. I don't know what is causing these dreams. Am I going crazy? Is a demon tempting me into power like the Inquistion's warnings?"

Gendry fidgeted with an object in his hands, and finally looked up to his sister. Hoping for direction, an idea of what these dreams meant.

Mya stood motionless. Staring at Gendry with an ashen face.

"I've heard a voice in the wind and it whispered Elenei. I don't know what this means though and it scares me. We need to talk to someone that knows more about this. Come with me. We need to see Vee. She is one of the Kings Companion's. She'll know what to do." Mya took Gendry's hand and went searching for Vee.

---------------------------------------------------------------

I think the Storm God might send out call to those of Elenei's descent. Try and grow his power slowly. And Robert was nothing if not proficient at making bastards. Maybe another will answer the call. Maybe these two are the only ones capable of hearing. Instead of all eggs in a basket.
 
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The Legion Devils are fairly squishy at 19 HP, and even a pooled 152 HP will whittle away pretty quick against the right officer/troops. Less than their number of heavy cavalry can kill them all in one pass, as they have the double edged sword of you being able to drain away their entire HP pool by hitting one guy.
Sure?
Their to hit isn't that good, about half the attacks will hit.
And then the Merregons can Summon some of their kind in the way to serve as damage-sponge.

At least that's what I would see as a viable strategy to stand against a powerful charge.
If 35% of them successfully summons that's enough to put a line before them that the Lancers can't just move through, they have to hit them.
And then, with the help of Legion's Advance, the Merregons can get stuck in and suddenly the Lancers are no better than other Legionaires
 
Protectionism is never going to fix this.



Our government is actually quite capable and willing to ensure for Physiological and Safety needs regardless if the smith has maintenance work, the rest is just sorting things out.

We're in luck because the vast majority of the population will be happy to have that covered, if the demographics were like the modern world where people are (in the short term) less able to provide themselves luxury then we would have social unrest but that's just not the case here.

Even your past example of selling their excess grain for profit to buy new shoes is optimistic for most of the population and it doesn't matter because new shoes falls under Physiological and Safety needs anyway.

It is a sad truth that most of the population will consider a number of things that fall under those two categories as luxury items.

[X] Crake

I would like elements of @Goldfish's plan added to @Crake's though to illustrate this isn't all distant theory and stories, mention the military action she already knows failed, twice and the plague ships show military desperation on Robert's part and Moral/Feudal superiority on ours.
Um, I know?
My very next post on the topic discards the idea of protectionism ?
 
Um, I know?
My very next post on the topic discards the idea of protectionism ?

The "very next post" was a ways away and by the time I got there it just wasn't worth going round and round, it still stand as an argument against "don't make hardened steel tools" etc

From what I understand, please correct me if I'm wrong, you still believe we need to slow down on that kind of thing even if we don't tariff our trading partners and I believe that as long as we provide the bottom two rungs we absolutely don't have to.
 
Well damn this story went nuts while I was out and about. Unfortunately, I'm going to be too busy with the ranch for a few more weeks to participate. I believe @Snowfire still has my proxy vote. Good luck lads and have a profitable summer. I hope. . . With the shite China and the States have started I might not make any profit this year or the next. Good luck and have fun ladies and gentlemen I may skim through if I have time.
 
Well damn this story went nuts while I was out and about. Unfortunately, I'm going to be too busy with the ranch for a few more weeks to participate. I believe @Snowfire still has my proxy vote. Good luck lads and have a profitable summer. I hope. . . With the shite China and the States have started I might not make any profit this year or the next. Good luck and have fun ladies and gentlemen I may skim through if I have time.
Snowfire has left the thread.
 
The "very next post" was a ways away and by the time I got there it just wasn't worth going round and round, it still stand as an argument against "don't make hardened steel tools" etc

From what I understand, please correct me if I'm wrong, you still believe we need to slow down on that kind of thing even if we don't tariff our trading partners and I believe that as long as we provide the bottom two rungs we absolutely don't have to.
I see.
To be clear, I have abandoned all objections to Hardening. It has no mentions in my recap post, for I have been convinced.

We will definitely be needing a way to get rid of Hardened trash though :D
 
We will definitely be needing a way to get rid of Hardened trash though :D

Yes but not really, most hardened trash is going to retain value so it would likely be repurposed.

This isn't like plastic that is durable in one very inconvenient way but still rips and tears and becomes useless for its original (or near any) purpose.

Flyers for example will work perfectly well as structural materials.
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jul 11, 2019 at 4:27 AM, finished with 89 posts and 11 votes.

  • [X] Plan Usurper Bad, Dragon Good
    -[X] "My lady, make no mistake, we did not travel to Haystack Hall to buy your loyalty with magic trinkets or bottled miracles."
    --[X] "There are, of course, a number of advantages freely available to the citizens of my realm, from something so basic and mundane as free education for any willing to learn, to the more fantastical, such as the healing provided, again free of charge, to any who is sick or injured."
    ---[X] "Why, a significant number of citizens now living in Sorcerer's Deep, thousands of them in fact, were sent from Westeros by agents of the Crown. They came in ships barely worthy of the name, some dangerously overloaded, most half-starved and on the edge of dehydration. Those unfortunates were sent not only to die, but to spread disease and suffering in their wake. Instead, they were made well, healed of the sicknesses which plagued them, then welcomed into the Imperium."
    ----[X] "Robert Baratheon sent a fleet to destroy my city before I ever turned my eyes to retaking the Iron Throne. When that one did not succeed, he sent another, a plague fleet intended to bring us low where force of arms failed. That is the man you profess loyalty to, in your father's name, despite swearing no oaths of your own."
    -----[X] "There are advantages beyond the simple satisfaction of knowing you support a worthy king, rather than a lout of an Usurper, my lady. One of the most basic privileges of an Imperial citizen, of which thousands of Westeros' poorest were able to benefit from through the Usurper's half-hearted malice, would have seen your father's health restored in an instant. This is no mere tale, simply the day to day truth of my realm, and one I hope to bring to Westeros when the time is right. Would you deny such to your people, to your friends and family?"
 
Part MMCMXLVII: Of Pride and Purpose
Of Pride and Purpose

Tenth Day of the Tenth Month 293 AC

How shortsighted your foes have been to give no arcane counsel to House Errol simply because no peril loomed above these lands, you think as you listen to the answer. Then you realize that the answer would not be quite so simple. Lannister mages have bred more resentment than goodwill elsewhere in the Stormlands. Were you in the Usurper's place you would have passed through here in a royal progress, leaving behind mages sworn to the crown and knowledge of magic. Still, you are not in that position, and must not seem too mercantile in your dealings: "My lady, make no mistake, we did not travel to Haystack Hall to buy your loyalty with magic trinkets or bottled miracles."

Lady Shyra nods cautiously, her pride satisfied with the answer, though that alone will not win her fealty.

It is by deeds that good lordship is known, and so you continue simply and without artifice: "There are, of course, a number of advantages freely available to the citizens of my realm, from something so basic and mundane as free education for any willing to learn, to the more fantastical, such as the healing provided, again free of charge, to any who are sick or injured."

"'Citizens'," the lady frowns. "An Essosi word that, to fit the rowdy folk of the Free Cities. I cannot think what lessons farmers and fishers might need that they do not learn at their father's knee."

"The world is changing, my lady," Dany interjects, her scales clinking gently as she shifts on the windowsill. "As east and west come closer to each other they may learn of the virtues of the other. It is my hope that the heirs of Valyria shall gain a love of freedom and so too might the people of Westeros learn not to dismiss the skills of others out of hand. I confess I have little love of how often the eyes of lords have passed me over as though I were some exotic bird to be kept for the beauty of her plumage, only to then look on in betrayed suspicion when I opened my mouth to give lie to the impression." As close as she dares come to the concern you know to be upon her mind on such short acquaintance.

"That... I see." She shakes her head. "Some surprise is only natural, young as you are, particularly if you had taken that form."

"If only that surprise was all I had seen, and I know only one to which it was expressed," Dany sighs. "Whatever their vices, the dragonlords had one virtue that is near to my heart—dragons will chose men and women just the same, and so the Crimson Code treated all their lords the same."

"So do the laws of King Jaehaerys, but laws have little bearing on the judgements of high and low alike..." Lady Shyra cuts off the confession, a faint flush upon her cheeks for making it before one who she 'should be wary of'.

You clear your throat before the silence can grow uncomfortable: "Think not that all my people are Essosi. Why, a significant number of citizens now living in Sorcerer's Deep, thousands upon thousands, were sent from Westeros by agents of the Crown. They came in ships barely worthy of the name, some dangerously overloaded, most half-starved and on the edge of dehydration. Those unfortunates were sent not only to die, but to spread disease and suffering in their wake. Instead, they were made well, healed of the sicknesses which plagued them, then welcomed into the Imperium."

"The king would not so callously use his own subjects." The denial is reflexive, though you can see the growing worry in her eyes that it is not true.

"One who knows himself outmatched at war will oft abandon honor," you say plainly, though careful not to seem as though you are lecturing her. She has likely seen more than enough of that. "Robert Baratheon sent a fleet to destroy my city before I ever turned my eyes to retaking the Iron Throne. When that one did not succeed, he sent another, a plague fleet intended to bring us low where force of arms failed. That is the man you profess loyalty to, in your father's name, despite swearing no oaths of your own."

"I... the king would not have commanded such a thing. Perhaps the Spider..."

"So he is then unable to control his own Small Council, and does not even discover their misdeeds years after the fact?" you cut her off. "Should that be true, it does Baratheon no favors." Before she can find some other way to deny your words you continue to the simplest, though in many ways perhaps the most persuasive of your offers. "There are advantages beyond the simple satisfaction of knowing you support a worthy king, rather than a lout of a Usurper, my lady. One of the most basic privileges of an Imperial citizen, of which thousands of Westeros' poorest were able to benefit from through the Usurper's half-hearted malice, would have seen your father's health restored in an instant. This is no mere tale, simply the day to day truth of my realm, and one I hope to bring to Westeros when the time is right. Would you deny such to your people, to your friends and family?"

"Then why do you not bring it?" she blurts out, anger growing in her voice. "Why do you wait while brigands and gallows-bait use your banner to kill honest lords? Aught the Riverlords bow their heads to let armored vagabonds and killers pass through their lands unchallenged? My cousin died fighting men under the Dragon Banner though there was no war in the land."

What do you reply?

[] Write in

OOC: The rolls were only fair to middling so you guys do have to deal with the death of Ser Keath, though thankfully her mother is not here to add fuel to the fire so it will be easier.
 
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Of Pride and Purpose

Tenth Day of the Tenth Month 293 AC

How shortsighted your foes have been to give no arcane counsel to House Errol simply because no peril loomed above these lands, you think as you listen to the answer. Then you realize that the answer would not be quite so simple. Lannister mages have bred more resentment than good will elsewhere in the Stromlands. Were you in the Usurprer's place, you would have passed through here in a royal progression, leaving behind mages sworn to the crown, and knowledge of magic. Still you are not in that position and must not seem too mercantile in your dealings: "My lady, make no mistake, we did not travel to Haystack Hall to buy your loyalty with magic trinkets or bottled miracles."

Lady Shyra nods cautiously, her pride satisfied with the answer, though that alone will not win her fealty.

It is by deeds that good lordship is known, and so you continue simply and without artifice: "There are, of course, a number of advantages freely available to the citizens of my realm, from something so basic and mundane as free education for any willing to learn, to the more fantastical, such as the healing provided, again free of charge, to any who is sick or injured."

"Citizens," the lady frowns. "An Essosi word that, to fit the rowdy folk of the Free Cities. I cannot think what lessons farmers and fishers might need that they do not learn at their father's knee."

"The world is changing my lady," Dany interjects, scales clinking gently as she shifts. "As east and west come closer, each may learn of the virtues of the other. It is my hope that the heirs of Valyria shall gain a love of freedom and so too might the people of Westeros learn not to dismiss the skills of others out of hand. I confess I have little love of how often the eyes of lords have passed me over as though I were some exotic bird to be kept or the beauty of her plumage, only to then look on in betrayed suspicion when I opened my mouth to give lie to the impression." As close as she dares come to the concern you know to be upon her mind on such short acquaintance.

"That... I see," She shakes herself. "Some surprise if only natural, young as you are, particularly if you had taken that form."

"Would that surprise were all I had seen, and I the only one to which it was expressed," Dany sighs. "Whatever their vices, the dragon lords had one virtue that is near to my heart, dragons will chose men and women just the same and so the Crimson Code treated all their lords the same."

"So do the laws of king Jaehaerys, but laws have little bearing on the judgements of high and low alike..." Lady Shyra cuts off the confession, a faint flush upon her cheeks for making it before one who she 'should' be wary of.

You clear your throat before the silence can grow uncomfortable: "Think not that all my people are Essosi. Why, a significant number of citizens now living in Sorcerer's Deep, thousands upon thousands, were sent from Westeros by agents of the Crown. They came in ships barely worthy of the name, some dangerously overloaded, most half-starved and on the edge of dehydration. Those unfortunates were sent not only to die, but to spread disease and suffering in their wake. Instead, they were made well, healed of the sicknesses which plagued them, then welcomed into the Imperium."

"The king would not so callously use his own subjects," the denial is reflexive, though you can see the growing worry in her eyes that is is not true.

"One who knows himself out-matched at war will oft abandon honor," you say plainly, though careful not to seen as though you are lecturing her. She has likely seen more than enough of that. "Robert Baratheon sent a fleet to destroy my city before I ever turned my eyes to retaking the Iron Throne. When that one did not succeed, he sent another, a plague fleet intended to bring us low where force of arms failed. That is the man you profess loyalty to, in your father's name, despite swearing no oaths of your own."

"I... the king would not have commanded such a thing. Perhaps the Spider..."

"So he is then unable to control his own Small Council and does not even discover their misdeeds years after the fact?" you cut her off. "Should that be true it does Baratheon no favors."

Before she can find some other way to deny your words, you continue to the simplest, though in many ways perhaps the most persuasive of your offers. "There are advantages beyond the simple satisfaction of knowing you support a worthy king, rather than a lout of an Usurper, my lady. One of the most basic privileges of an Imperial citizen, of which thousands of Westeros' poorest were able to benefit from through the Usurper's half-hearted malice, would have seen your father's health restored in an instant. This is no mere tale, simply the day to day truth of my realm, and one I hope to bring to Westeros when the time is right. Would you deny such to your people, to your friends and family?"

"Then why do you not bring it?" she blurts out, anger growing in her voice. "Why do you wait while brigands and gallows-bait use your banner to kill honest lords? Aught the Riverlords bow their heads to let armored vagabonds and killers pass though their lands unchallenged? My cousin died fighting men under the Dragon Banner, though there was no war in the land."

What do you reply?

[] Write in

OOC: The rolls were only fair to middling so you guys do have to deal with the death of Ser Keath, though thankfully her mother is not here to add fuel to the fire so it will be easier.
Made some edits to the chapter, DP.
 
Fewer will die if we strike with overwhelming force and strong internal support.

But that doesn't help anyone who dies until it's time.

I mean, yeah. Ultimately Viserys (and us through him) judged that it was better to let the suffering happen now so we can decisively crush the current system and set up (in our eyes) a better one. Ultimately I think our best bet is to point out that, despite our actions, We don't owe Westeros anything.

They booted our family out after 300 years of fairly prosperous rule. What did they think would happen? I say that now is the time for harsh truths to nip this line of thinking in the bud, perhaps capitalising on the reputation of 'vengeful Targaryens'. What has she and her house done to deserve our protection compared to the many who stayed loyal?

Edit: and perhaps a showing of how we could have simply drowned Westeros in Fire and Blood if she accuses us of being a monster. Ultimately, she is useful but not irreplaceable, and can be deposed in favour of a loyal house when we invade.
 
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I mean, yeah. Ultimately Viserys (and us through him) judged that it was better to let the suffering happen now so we can decisively crush the current system and set up (in our eyes) a better one. Ultimately I think our best bet is to point out that, despite our actions, We don't owe Westeros anything.

They booted our family out after 300 years of fairly prosperous rule. What did they think would happen? I say that now is the time for harsh truths to nip this line of thinking in the bud, perhaps capitalising on the reputation of 'vengeful Targaryens'. What has she and her house done to deserve our protection compared to the many who stayed loyal?

That is not really the root of her question, the thing is Ser Keath did not die in a war, he died in a skirmish with what Shyra sees as brigands. Viserys just called Robert dishonorable for the plague ships, but isn't using bandits and broken men who hide in the woods dishonorable too?
 
I mean, yeah. Ultimately Viserys (and us through him) judged that it was better to let the suffering happen now so we can decisively crush the current system and set up (in our eyes) a better one. Ultimately I think our best bet is to point out that, despite our actions, We don't owe Westeros anything.
That plays a part, but there are other factors.

The more support we have for the actual invasion, the shorter the war will be and the fewer Lords and peasants will die resisting us.
We are saving Westerosi lives by waiting, though enough die anyway of course.

Another point is that we already have ensured that the Loyalist Lords will work with the Lads and not end up killed by them. Her uncle was, unfortunatly, not on our side, which is why he died.
 
That is not really the root of her question, the thing is Ser Keath did not die in a war, he died in a skirmish with what Shyra sees as brigands. Viserys just called Robert dishonorable for the plague ships, but isn't using bandits and broken men who hide in the woods dishonorable too?
Yes, but it's working.
The plague ship was definitly more callous and completly ineffective to make it perfect.
 
That is not really the root of her question, the thing is Ser Keath did not die in a war, he died in a skirmish with what Shyra sees as brigands. Viserys just called Robert dishonorable for the plague ships, but isn't using bandits and broken men who hide in the woods dishonorable too?

Are we using them? The natural result of any war will be dispossessed people who will turn to banditry to survive, and most will gravitate to the former lord's banners as a matter of course without encouragement. Does that make it our fault?

If the answer is yes, then we should by rights melt every non-loyalist castle in Westeros and be done with it.

Like, I cannot follow the kind of mental gymnastics required to immediately finger us as the responsible party when we have by en large ignored Westeros entirely (at least to the best of her knowledge). And if inaction is a crime.... again, she stood by and let our family be massacred.
 
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Are we using them? The natural result of any war will be dispossessed people who will turn to banditry to survive, and most will gravitate to the former lord's banners as a matter of course without encouragement. Does that make it our fault?

If the answer is yes, then we should by rights melt every non-loyalist castle in Westeros and be done with it.

Yes, you are actually using them, you sent arms, supplies and mages to help the Lads, so that is probably not the best tack to take.
 
Yes, you are actually using them, you sent arms, supplies and mages to help the Lads, so that is probably not the best tack to take.

1). Aren't the Lads in the Riverlands?

2). How does she know we supplied them?

3) Even if she has proof, I ask again: what did she think would happen? This is Westeros, and her cousin made the decision to fight what he knew were mage-supported, excellently armed troops with Royal patronage.

I think I'm missing something here. What exactly is the sequence of events that lead to her cousin death (as best as we can tell?)
 
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1). Aren't the Lads in the Riverlands?

2). How does she know we supplied them?

3) Even if she has proof, I ask again: what did she think would happen? This is Westeros, and her uncle made the decision to fight what he knew were mage-supported, excellently armed troops with Royal patronage.

I think I'm missing something here. What exactly is the sequence of events that lead to her Uncle's death (as best as we can tell?)
  1. They are, the cousin she is talking about is her mother's nephew.
  2. You can of course lie about it, though the lie might not stand up for long post Conquest.
  3. Ser Keath caught up to the Lads as they were resupplying attacked them attacked them with his own troops and died.
 
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