Valyria for sure.

Yss' children aren't really a priority for me right now, and we know Tiamat has an interest in Valyria.

Also Jazirian's children are best accomplished via Moonsong. We're making her a ship that can fly anywhere.
The saddest thing is, we cannot afford another expedition until:
A) Tiamat's forces (both Shadow Fortress and Golden Company) are dealt with (and I expect something political standing in our way in Yi Ti. I can all bit guarantee that they'd try to protect themselves from us that way :/)
B) Illithids are no longer a danger to literally everything everywhere (so, at the very least taking out those 3-4 main bases of theirs).
C) No other major factors suddenly pop up to take our attention.

And by then, war for Westeros would be right around the corner T_T
 
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The saddest thing is, we cannot afford another expedition until:
A) Tiamat's forces (both Shadow Fortress and Golden Company) are dealt with (and I expect something political standing in our way in Yi Ti. I can all bit guarantee that they'd try to protect themselves from us that way :/)
B) Illithids are no longer a danger to literally everything everywhere (so, at the very least taking out those 3-4 main bases of theirs).
C) No other major factors suddenly pop up to take our attention.

And by then, war for Westeros would be right around the corner T_T
I've made my peace with it. Mainly because everything you've listed is a fetch quest/sacrifice harvesting expedition in of itself.
 
The saddest thing is, we cannot afford another expedition until:
A) Tiamat's forces (both Shadow Fortress and Golden Company) are dealt with (and I expect something political standing in our way in Yi Ti. I can all bit guarantee that they'd try to protect themselves from us that way :/)
B) Illithids are no longer a danger to literally everything everywhere (so, at the very least taking out those 3-4 main bases of theirs).
C) No other major factors suddenly pop up to take our attention.

And by then, war for Westeros would be right around the corner T_T
I think our next major action should be finishing off the Golden Company and all of Tiamat's Planetosi assets. They're a distraction we can remove from the board in a relatively straight forward manner, whereas the Deep Ones are a much more entrenched and dangerous enemy that is going to need considerably more resources and fighting to finish off.
 
I think our next major action should be finishing off the Golden Company and all of Tiamat's Planetosi assets. They're a distraction we can remove from the board in a relatively straight forward manner, whereas the Deep Ones are a much more entrenched and dangerous enemy that is going to need considerably more resources and fighting to finish off.
I agree, but in order to take out her forces efficiently we need not only to time an attack on GCs main force and take it out entirely alongside storming the Shadow Fortress (no easy dungeon crawl at all), but also do a research action on turning Worm into god-shiv (Progress 15) and make a Tiamat-Snare with the help of our gods (luckily, we already have things to feed to MK and Yss that will have narrative significance for their participation. And Jazzirian will help us in any case, so its up to OGs, WL and SMG now).

Ideally, we attack both forces lighting-fast, take F!Aegon prisoner, put T!Snare on them and cut off a piece of Tiamat with Worm when she tries to manifest through them.

So it's a relatively straightforward, but at the same time tangled mess of various actions coming together :/
 
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I agree, but in order to take out her forces efficiently we need not only to time an attack on GCs main force and take it out entirely alongside storming the Shadow Fortress (no easy dungeon crawl at all), but also do a research action on turning Worm into god-shiv (Progress 15) and make a Tiamat-Snare with the help of our gods (luckily, we already have things to feed to MK and Yss that will have narrative significance for their participation. And Jazzirian will help us in any case, so its up to OGs, WL and SMG now).

Ideally, we attack both forces lighting-fast, take F!Aegon prisoner, put T!Snare on them and cut off a piece of Tiamat with Worm when she tries to manifest through them.

So it's a relatively straightforward, but at the same time tangled mess of various actions coming together :/
It's too ambitious to try to take out Tiamat herself, IMO.

Just removing her Planetosi assets would be enough for now, removing pressure from that front so we can focus on other issues.
 
It's too ambitious to try to take out Tiamat herself, IMO.

Just removing her Planetosi assets would be enough for now, removing pressure from that front so we can focus on other issues.
Wyla is going to be one of our most useful assets there. Unless we sacrifice Tiamat's minions, all of that power goes straight back to her. And Wyla is the only one with the Merciful Spell feat.

Of course the other option is Greater Rods of Merciful Spell, but we need to wait one more level for Lya to craft them. Maybe we could make a purchase?
 
It's too ambitious to try to take out Tiamat herself, IMO.
We aren't taking her out entirely, of course.
It's just that we have a great opportunity to attempt cutting her, hopefully as much as cutting away a Domain off her, since DP confirmed that The Worm would be able to work that way if we manage to trap a sufficiently large part of her in a Snare.
Like, say, if she tries to manifest an avatar rhrough F!Aegon and we put that necklace on them.

But alright.
I hope we get to pull that off, since I don't want her getting 90% of all her investments back through her Greed Domain...
But even the worst case, us being forced to murder everyone without taking anyone captive or a chance to use T!Snare on F!Aegon, I'll be more-or-less content, waht with her no longer having forces on PoB.
 
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Wyla is going to be one of our most useful assets there. Unless we sacrifice Tiamat's minions, all of that power goes straight back to her. And Wyla is the only one with the Merciful Spell feat.

Of course the other option is Greater Rods of Merciful Spell, but we need to wait one more level for Lya to craft them. Maybe we could make a purchase?
Remember that Viserys can also temporarily learn Merciful Spell using Ancestral Awakening.

Merciful Shadow of the Doom...

Or maybe we should use it to learn Chain Spell instead for Chained Mythic Baleful Polymorph; Mass Turtle Beam!
 
[X] Goldfish
Still want to summon angels of our own.
We will, next month.
[] Your Empire faces constant tribulations these days, and it's not likely to ever stop. Still, where mortal hands aren't able, or jsut aren't there to deal with problems... Beings from outside the Garden may.
-[] Dedicate some of your time usually spent on summoning Mammon's devils to summoning Phoenixes instead - have them play the same role Velen once played for you, and the same role their brethren play for orphanages and schools across your Empire - be tutors, but in magic this time.
-[] Summon some Preceptor Archons - have them rehabilitate the criminals and bring peace to minds of those hurt by magics and Madness of Deep Ones... and all else.
 
Remember that Viserys can also temporarily learn Merciful Spell using Ancestral Awakening.

Merciful Shadow of the Doom...

Or maybe we should use it to learn Chain Spell instead for Chained Mythic Baleful Polymorph; Mass Turtle Beam!
Chain Spell is more forgiving. I wouldn't put it past Tiamat to deny us loot.
 
[X] Goldfish

@Goldfish maybe add forced conversation is wrong, that people must accept the Seven into their hearts willingly to truly come under their aegis and to force such a thing would be an insult to the Seven themselves?
 
Vote closed
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on May 12, 2019 at 3:50 AM, finished with 403 posts and 21 votes.

  • [X] Try to speak to both of them
    -[X] Viserys gently interjects before Lucan can fully disengage from the conversation he had just been leading. "Pardon my interruption, Brother Lucan, but might I ask you to clarify? If I understand correctly, you would deem the practice of magic acceptable so long as it is guided by the hand of the Seven, but what of those mages who reject their guidance? If they break no laws of the realm, do not seek to harm or exploit others, then should they not be free to practice their magic in peace?"
    --[X] "Surely you would not advocate anything so barbaric as forced conversion, Brother?" Viserys acts suitably disturbed by such a prospect. "If it is death or the Seven, then surely that would force the Faith to make war against our neighbors who do not serve them? And what then of the Fey, whom serve no gods yet practice magic as easily and naturally as you or I breath? If all magic must be practiced under the aegis of the Seven, how could any man or woman pact with them?"
    ---[X] Depending on Lucan's answer, and any responses from Ollidor, ask the following if Viserys thinks he will receive a meaningful answer; "If the Seven are to guide mages, what of the organizations within Westeros who already employ magic to defend its people? Tales speak of some among the Lantern Bearers of Oldtown who wield some degree of magic, though a much better example would be the Golden Shields, who even now protect the realm. Should they fall under control of the Faith?"
    ----[X] Employ the full breadth of our Social Hax to prevent Lucan from avoiding this question. It's a crucial point given Ollidor's links to the Lannisters.
    [X] Abstain
 
The saddest thing is, we cannot afford another expedition until:
A) Tiamat's forces (both Shadow Fortress and Golden Company) are dealt with (and I expect something political standing in our way in Yi Ti. I can all bit guarantee that they'd try to protect themselves from us that way :/)
B) Illithids are no longer a danger to literally everything everywhere (so, at the very least taking out those 3-4 main bases of theirs).
C) No other major factors suddenly pop up to take our attention.

And by then, war for Westeros would be right around the corner T_T
A) I can see, personally, so I'm not going to poke.

B) but I ask you to explain why you feel, with the "truce" still holding, is is suddenly more important to launch a major, multi-arc campaign against ithillid (and their elder brain masters), one that once we start, we'll be stuck with for a while, rather than pop down and check out that flesh forge in the Basalisk isles?

My reasoning: anti-elder brain actions is going to be a big thing, having more high level assets and better support on our side makes buying time worth it (though, the elder brains/ithillid sub commanders probably feel the same).

[Edit: and don't we already have devil summoning efferti with big, juciy doomships to help fight, right now, too?]

Basalisk isles flesh forge would be a cool arc, shorter to do by far, and give us better tools to enhance people to fight ithillids (and resist reprisals) and do awesome things with.

That said, I do feel that with the expansion of the Imperium from a one island polity to a multi city-state, the danger of the threat the ithillid made when we made the truce is much lower, so I am no longer against the idea of making the war go hot in principle, as I was :)

-----
@Thread preceptor archons are a lot of "HD per mind", apart from "moar lesser pheonixes" is there any low HD mental health support-types we can summon? Obviously, D&d, being a combat simulator won't have many, but any creatures that lend themselves to the task by inclination?
 
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@Thread preceptor archons are a lot of "HD per mind", apart from "moar lesser pheonixes" is there any low HD mental health support-types we can summon? Obviously, D&d, being a combat simulator won't have many, but any creatures that lend themselves to the task by inclination?

Preceptor Archons are capable of aiding multiple people at once, just like any councillor is not limited to helping just one person a day.

On the matter of the Illithid, I believe we should be meeting with the Gith sometime in the next few months, and if we can secure an agreement of aid from them all we need to do is to have forward basing areas ready for them when the truce ends. The cold war with the Illithid will hold, at least for now. We'll probably want to deal with them before integrating Westeros, but we're still a ways out from that. Tiamat takes priority, and I do want to have the Snare ready when we go for the Golden Company. I'd like to extract some revenge for Dany, but it's more than that too. Sending a message that there are some things we shall not tolerate, even from Gods, is important.

After their main jump-off points are dealt with, we'll have to run cleanup on Tiamat's servants in the material, which will probably be as extensive, if not more so, than the work we we've been doing to sweep up the loose ends from Varys.

After that we can consider war plans against the Illithid.
 
Winning vote

[] Try to speak to both of them
-[] Viserys gently interjects before Lucan can fully disengage from the conversation he had just been leading. "Pardon my interruption, Brother Lucan, but might I ask you to clarify? If I understand correctly, you would deem the practice of magic acceptable so long as it is guided by the hand of the Seven, but what of those mages who reject their guidance? If they break no laws of the realm, do not seek to harm or exploit others, then should they not be free to practice their magic in peace?"
--[] "Surely you would not advocate anything so barbaric as forced conversion, Brother?" Viserys acts suitably disturbed by such a prospect. "If it is death or the Seven, then surely that would force the Faith to make war against our neighbors who do not serve them? And what then of the Fey, whom serve no gods yet practice magic as easily and naturally as you or I breath? If all magic must be practiced under the aegis of the Seven, how could any man or woman pact with them?"
---[] Depending on Lucan's answer, and any responses from Ollidor, ask the following if Viserys thinks he will receive a meaningful answer; "If the Seven are to guide mages, what of the organizations within Westeros who already employ magic to defend its people? Tales speak of some among the Lantern Bearers of Oldtown who wield some degree of magic, though a much better example would be the Golden Shields, who even now protect the realm. Should they fall under control of the Faith?"
----[] Employ the full breadth of our Social Hax to prevent Lucan from avoiding this question. It's a crucial point given Ollidor's links to the Lannisters.
 
Part MMDCCCXXVIII: In the Balance of Faith Part Four
In the Balance of Faith Part Four

Sixteenth Day of the Ninth Month 293 AC

In the rustle of whispers that that follow the Chosen's proclamation your tread is not heard, your plain robes given not a second glances as you step out of the circle before you speak gently but firmly: "Pardon my interruption, Brother Lucan, but might I ask you to clarify? If I understand correctly, you would deem the practice of magic acceptable so long as it is guided by the hand of the Seven, but what of those mages who reject their guidance? If they break no laws of the realm, do not seek to harm or exploit others, then should they not be free to practice their magic in peace?"

The voices all around you gain a different timber, many surprised, some accusing that you would dare to approach a Chosen so, a mere Begging Brother brought forth as an ornament by Kyle, but Brother Lucan himself merely looks wary and, perhaps in the depths of those stern dark eyes, a glimmer of sadness. What moves him so? you wonder. Does he too regret those whose blood he shed but moves on regardless? A pity that he does not see the sea of blood in which he would drench the Seven Kingdoms in if his will is done.

"Surely you would not advocate anything so barbaric as forced conversion, Brother?" you press.

At that the septon raises a hand for you to pause, not demanding but requesting. Dywen would never be a man to deny another his say and so you fall silent awaiting his response.

"No, brother. It seems the vicious rumors dogging my steps have struck once again." he looks not just to you but to the others in the circle, to Olindor most of all, yet to your ear the words do not have the sound of sweet lies poured into the ears of a foe, but the truth as Lucan believes it to be: "Never would I support to spread the Faith by blade, for a blade has never convinced anyone of anything. One could force a man to pray, force him to be virtuous, and force him to obey the stars' rules, but what would that truly do? No light would reach this poor man's soul from these deeds, instead the shadow of violence gives ample room for hate to fester. And it too would darken the soul of him who wields the blade for the death he threatens on his fellow man."

"How easily he renounces the sword by which the Seven-Pointed Star came to these lands," Dany notes frustrated once again, the moment of sympathy for Lucan spent. "Magnanimity in triumph, and let us forget the butchery that made it possible."

Yet Lucan is far from finished in speaking: "The guidance I speak of is not necessarily that of the book, but of the virtues that the Seven hold dear. These virtues are more paramount then to see them prayed about in a sept, and those we can only spread by living them. As the Warrior told us: 'Not from words, but deeds you will be exalted'."

At these words a septa standing five steps to your left speaks up out of turn, her voice thick in what you suspect to be more faith prodded to the fore than ploy as she quotes from the Seven-Pointed Star, "And when the first sept was raised, the Smith spoke to the mason: A house you have built us and it is pleasing to us, but we need no earthly house to dwell in and you need no house to speak to us. We are with the righteous at all times, to guide their steps and offer strength if they ever falter. We are with the heathen, to shine a light for him to follow if he wishes and to ward him from the shadows that would wish to claim him. We are with the sinner, to hold a mirror to so that he may know himself and find the will to atone for his deeds. So make this house that of the poor and downtrodden. Make it the house of those fleeing duress vile. Make it the house of those needing healing and succor. For these are worldly things we cannot offer, but if you give them in our stead, then we shall be most pleased with the house you've built'."

Brother Lucan nods and smiles at her, his eyes lighting up to hear the holy text quoted with sincerity: "Indeed, Sister, so it was in the days when Hugor walked among the Seven Hills of Andalos, so it is now."

"The world is changed, Brother, not in the great truths but in the ever turning wheel that is the fate and tale of mankind," you counter troubled, the expression no more mask but honest truth. "If the Seven are to guide mages, what of the organizations within Westeros who already employ magic to defend its people? Tales speak of some among the Lantern Bearers of Oldtown who wield some measure of magic, though a much better example would be the Golden Shields, who even now protect the realm. Should they fall under the aegis of the Seven-Pointed Star?" The words are blunt, but at time bluntness can serve better than the sharpest subtly.

"Certainly not," Lucan replies firmly. "In their hearts they should, as all men should, but why should that mean to grant the High Septon power over them? One does not need a septon's robe to tell right from wrong. A lord is trusted with stewardship over thousands upon thousands, so we should also trust them to wield power over mages."

So they must have only the 'choice' of renouncing their power or death to those mages who have transgressed against the virtues he holds dear. You can well imagine what many hedge mages might have done to transgress against those values, particularly as he sees them, to hold them to a higher standard than most men as bearers of divine flame, yet that does not help you here. With the Golden Shields safe you are left with only the matter of the Fey, with whom he has already proven himself willing to deal with in peace.

"He still seeks a theocracy, though he might know it not," Dany's thoughts are cold and measured now, her own mind racing down the path to understand this man."If the Faith is strong and united, and the lords squabbling fools such as we have seen them, it becomes their 'duty' to take away that power with which the lords use to do harm, inch by inch until the throne is hollow and the crown a glided bauble."

"True as that may be I do not think the point will make much of an impression here, not with so many attending, that is a point to be made in private and perhaps not by Dywen,"
you reply as you nod and allow wholly false relief to show upon your features.

After Brother Lucan had departed, you realize he might not have won the first spar as thoroughly as you had feared. You see respect tinged with a touch of fear in many of the eyes that had before discounted you as nothing but another Begging Brother. Perhaps they even think you some other Chosen come unaware upon Lucan to test him.

Regardless of the exact cause Olindor is quite open with what Lucan had asked that he support in the second part of the day: That those among the Faith who are blessed by the Seven and inclined to pursuits aligning with the Smith should take up the crafting of warding and healing objects. These works should be done under the patronage of a well-inclined lord who oversees everything, particularly the finances. The Faith should sell the fruits of their labors at market value, but all profits made put towards charitable works.

A clever notion, you admit grudgingly. It builds an arsenal for the Faith in a way most lords would not find inherently objectionable. It might be simpler to block this through the lords themselves or even Baratheon's court, pointing out the dangers, but if they should put a stop to charitable works then that will only stoke the fires of religious turmoil.

What do you do next?

[] Try to block Lucan's motion somehow
-[] Write in

[] This is not worth fighting here, let it pass and continue working on dividing the delegates from him on other matters
-[] Write in

[] Seek out one of Lucan's angels or mages to try to learn more of the man that way, it is clear rumors are not a sufficient source to make your plans upon
-[] Write in

[] Write in


OOC: Your rolls were pretty good but the arguments just could not land since, much like Viserys, Lucan is not what rumors paint him as.
 
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OOC: Your rolls were pretty good but the arguments just could not land since much like Viserys Lucan is not what rumors paint him as.
But the Deva has already killed mages for nothing more than potential future crimes, so there must be some truth to it.

Besides we happen to know his mission from the Father OOC and letting faith-independant mage organisations stand can't really be part of his long-term plans.

He was either lying here, or he more deluded than expected?
 
[] Seek out one of Lucan's angels or mages to try to learn more of the man that way, it is clear rumors are not a sufficient source to make your plans upon
-[] Write in

I think this is pretty much necessity at this point. We need more information, and it's relatively easy to approach one of his followers on this matter after the discussion we've just had.

Also lol at people thinking we might be Chosen. Keikau Dori intensifies.
 
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