Something I should probably make explicit: while you cannot see his auras because he has mind blank, Lucan was preternaturally good at talking in this past interlude, in mechanical terms at least +40 to his diplomacy score potentially much higher. He is using a lot of buffs on top of extraordinary natural skill. Don't assume he would be easy to kill.
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
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- Tags
- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
- Location
- ?????????
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
Have we ever?
I mean, duh, he's an antagonist made in the very beginning of the quest, who had a lot of time to consolidate power and blessings.
Doesn't mean that a sufficiently good strike team (and not even to a point where we'd need all our Companions) couldn't take him down.
It's actually catching him in a position where we can attack that's problematic.
:/
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
First...
Reasonable he may seem, but Lucan's words paint a fairly obvious picture of his intentions.
The question, however, is whether we should attempt to tug on that particular thread now or wait until later? If magic can only be practiced safely under the sanction of the Seven, then Lucan must intend to stamp it out elsewhere, including among innately magical creatures who do not follow the Seven or any gods, such as the Fey.
We could straight up call Lucan on using magic to manipulate those listening to him, including Ollidor.
but then...Lucan said:
Lucan said:
Reasonable he may seem, but Lucan's words paint a fairly obvious picture of his intentions.
The question, however, is whether we should attempt to tug on that particular thread now or wait until later? If magic can only be practiced safely under the sanction of the Seven, then Lucan must intend to stamp it out elsewhere, including among innately magical creatures who do not follow the Seven or any gods, such as the Fey.
This is something Viserys should be able to recognize and could exploit if we desire.
We could straight up call Lucan on using magic to manipulate those listening to him, including Ollidor.
- Location
- Germany
That's still not the part anyone is concerned about, I think.
We are pretty confident in the ability of one of our oversized parties to kill any single target.
But if we wanted to do it right here we might also want to kill 900 other priests and strike at the High Septon and Most Devout in KL at the same time.
Better to decapitate the Faith in one strike than to prove Lucan right while killing him and letting the whole faith rally around their new martyr.
Evaunit02mark1
S-s-smell the Prey, S-s-start the Hunt.
I'm down, where's the nukes?
- Location
- Germany
How to prove it?
By admitting to either magesight or intimate knowledge with social magic?
Massgamer
Advance toward the Future
- Location
- The Future
So Lucan basically believes that mages are best served serving the Faith itself and those outside of it are at best untrustworthy and at worst time bombs.
Not much different than a certain Lion basically compelling service of anyone with magical potential to his service.
Not much different than a certain Lion basically compelling service of anyone with magical potential to his service.
- Location
- France
Our main angle of attack should be that Lucan is essentially arguing for a theocracy at this point, concentrating all military power among the clergy and it's servants.
Is everyone here willing to go with that? The pro-Lannister or pro-Tyrell certainly shouldn't be, for example.
Is everyone here willing to go with that? The pro-Lannister or pro-Tyrell certainly shouldn't be, for example.
The problem is you have no proof that he is using magic beyond Viserys' own perception which would necessitate admitting to being a mage. Also he could point out he is using the blessings of the Seven to make himself better at talking not casting spells on others.
That is indeed an avenue but it's a dangerous one
- Location
- France
Use the Fey !
That tiny Fey has already been established as unable to lie. Have it call him out !
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
It's actually pretty easy.
Let's assume he's 15th level at a minimum, so with some shuffling to get Diplomacy as a Class skill (which is easily accomplished), he could have 18 ranks in it. As a Cleric he should be focusing on Wisdom, but Charisma could be a helpful stat for him depending on his build. Assuming a decent base attribute with moderate magical enhancement, let's put his Charisma at 20, for a +5 bonus. Diplomacy is also easy to get synergy bonuses for, up to +6.
So he could be just be sitting at a resting Diplomacy bonus of +29 without any feats or spells. With spells, it climbs quickly; +15 from Divine Insight, +10 from Voice of the Dragon and/or Air of Nobility, up to +20 from Surge of Fortune, etc. Divine Insight and Surge of Fortune are not constant buffs, but can be used for sudden bursts of awesomeness, like closing a debate or meeting with an amazing flourish.
All in all, there's a reason DP altered the way Diplomacy and social combat occur, because it's easy to get really good at it and the standard D&D rules don't handle the effects of that very well.
- Location
- ?????????
She could also expose us in the same breath. Not a good play all things considered.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Ouch. Eh, bad rolls are bad rolls. *Shrugs*
Proposal - Lucien appears to be honest, do we know he intends to agree with Kyle and then betray him?
[Edit: reads posts about the wicked sorcery.... Mostly honest
]
Now this cuts to the whole "one true God/pantheon" matter, so if it is covered by the holy texts we might have trouble, but... Lucian should, imo, know that "one true" thingy is bs anyway.
- If I may brothers, I did not wish to bring this up in front of all so that you would have to spend time to argue against the position implied by my question (I seek a discussion, not a debate), but I feel compelled to ask; what of those who have the gift [curse? Burden?] Of magic/power, those who would lead virtious lives without following the Seven, those who would follow other powers for guidance, ones kindly and fair? What of those mages who would follow no guide save their own moral/ethical code, and cleave to it, those who would never wish to follow in the light of the Seven as faith, but still hold to the ideals behind our teachings?
Also, this bit again, but to Lucian also:
with concern how you believe Kyle to have rather more radical opinions than the matter which just passed the Conclave in relation to the Fae. Subtly point towards the acts of House Tyrell in aligning more closely with the Fae - nothing precise, just what a wanderer of the Reach might know. [Do it in a way that is "testing the waters" as Lucian will probably see through us hinting] if pressed on the matter, warn them of the consequence of the court of stars taking over. If pressed, why not be honest? "Went to brravos, asked Orphene King. Nice chap, but I don't think they'd appricate me giving more details on our interaction compared to me keeping quie
Now, this might backfire as Lucian might well reach out to Kyle, and if Kyle is ignorant, then that will bind them closer, but if not, it might cause a split between the two.
Ohhhh! We can have Leto teleport to Yss and ask for the commune on our behalf on weather Kyle is aware of the CoS endgame* while we do the first bit, if we want to do it? Or even just do the question anyway while we do anything else?
*I dislike this word, as I feel that fairytale land is a consequence, but not something that the CoS want. Requesting better condensed term for "CoS Reach Takeover"
Proposal - Lucien appears to be honest, do we know he intends to agree with Kyle and then betray him?
[Edit: reads posts about the wicked sorcery.... Mostly honest
]Now this cuts to the whole "one true God/pantheon" matter, so if it is covered by the holy texts we might have trouble, but... Lucian should, imo, know that "one true" thingy is bs anyway.
- If I may brothers, I did not wish to bring this up in front of all so that you would have to spend time to argue against the position implied by my question (I seek a discussion, not a debate), but I feel compelled to ask; what of those who have the gift [curse? Burden?] Of magic/power, those who would lead virtious lives without following the Seven, those who would follow other powers for guidance, ones kindly and fair? What of those mages who would follow no guide save their own moral/ethical code, and cleave to it, those who would never wish to follow in the light of the Seven as faith, but still hold to the ideals behind our teachings?
Also, this bit again, but to Lucian also:
with concern how you believe Kyle to have rather more radical opinions than the matter which just passed the Conclave in relation to the Fae. Subtly point towards the acts of House Tyrell in aligning more closely with the Fae - nothing precise, just what a wanderer of the Reach might know. [Do it in a way that is "testing the waters" as Lucian will probably see through us hinting] if pressed on the matter, warn them of the consequence of the court of stars taking over. If pressed, why not be honest? "Went to brravos, asked Orphene King. Nice chap, but I don't think they'd appricate me giving more details on our interaction compared to me keeping quie
Now, this might backfire as Lucian might well reach out to Kyle, and if Kyle is ignorant, then that will bind them closer, but if not, it might cause a split between the two.
Ohhhh! We can have Leto teleport to Yss and ask for the commune on our behalf on weather Kyle is aware of the CoS endgame* while we do the first bit, if we want to do it? Or even just do the question anyway while we do anything else?
*I dislike this word, as I feel that fairytale land is a consequence, but not something that the CoS want. Requesting better condensed term for "CoS Reach Takeover"
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- Location
- France
Not if she didn't know it came from us...
Wouldn't it be convenient if she saw an Archon giving her this advice ?
- Location
- florida
They would then be able to finger us quite easily, and of course he spoke for the fey presently, they wouldn't want to hinder him.
- Location
- France
Simply telling the Fey his plans will make it very obvious that his goals are incompatible with theirs. And the Fey would love to fuck over the servants of the gods, anyway.
- Location
- ?????????
It may be time to ask Yss what the plans are for both men. We now know what the man looks like and with enough power Yss can see through the veil. We just need a worthy sacrifice and we have a couple.
Really nice to see all the debate.
- Location
- florida
Real quick we made sure to get an awesome mundane disguise from Tyene correct?Really nice to see all the debate.
- Location
- France
I said it before, and I'll say it again : we want to oppose Lucan with all we've got, because he's set to steamroll these debates.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Well, Danielle might swoop in and save us?
- Location
- florida
That... Is opposing him?
We could just straight up ask him how far he's planning on going with the military thing, but should we save that for warrior day?
Edit:
@BeepSmile I wish, truly I do. Her help would have been invaluable.
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
What if we left Ollidor and Lucan to their own devices and sought out Kyle and Lady Myssa? We're here as part of his faction, as far as he knows, so it would only be natural for us to come to him with grave concerns after overhearing Lucan speaking with Ollidor, expressing views which might seem quite benign, even somewhat enlightened compared to many of the Faithful, but which taken in context allude to him only regarding magic practiced by those who follow the Seven as being acceptable. This would not only contradict what he just said before the entire gathered Conclave in regards to dealing with the Fey, who are innately magical beings and have no interaction with the gods, but would also imply that he would be willing to persecute those not of the Faith who practice magic.