Remove ads

A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

Reader mode
DragonParadox said:
OOC: The reason I did not move right to scry and capture is that Jorah did not break any of your laws, broke the laws of Robert Baratheon and Eddard Stark. If he is being a productive member of society in Western Essos there is a case to be made for Viserys leaving him alone. He has hired worse slavers than him.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Before we became involved, Slavery was legal in Essos. You could make the argument that all of the Slavers we conquered were not doing anything illegal at the time. Now that it's against the law, they either stopped, to come into compliance with our law, or they were hung.

Slavery was never legal in Westeros. Jorah broke the law as it was written in a place and time it was illegal and the sentence is the Wall or the Rope. Jorah really should have known better.

Given that we are the rightful King (if one who is not currently occupying our traditional seat) it is completely within our prerogative to execute Westerosi law. Viserys has always been king, legally, the practicalities have just been a bit more complicated.
 
Redium said:
Before we became involved, Slavery was legal in Essos. You could make the argument that all of the Slavers we conquered were not doing anything illegal at the time. Now that it's against the law, they either stopped, to come into compliance with our law, or they were hung.

Slavery was never legal in Westeros. Jorah broke the law as it was written in a place and time it was illegal and the sentence is the Wall or the Rope. Jorah really should have known better.

Given that we are the rightful King (if one who is not currently occupying our traditional seat) it is completely within our prerogative to execute Westerosi law. Viserys has always been king, legally, the practicalities have just been a bit more complicated.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Something like a third to half the captains in Viserys' navy have probably raided Westertosi shores of slaves at some point in their careers. Stepstones pirates were not the most discerning people
 
DragonParadox said:
OOC: The reason I did not move right to scry and capture is that Jorah did not break any of your laws, broke the laws of Robert Baratheon and Eddard Stark. If he is being a productive member of society in Western Essos there is a case to be made for Viserys leaving him alone. He has hired worse slavers than him.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, it was politically convenient to hire them and now it's politically convenient to turn over Jorah to his relatives.
 
Crake said:
Also, it is worrisome that she implied that she would murder him outside the confines of the state which he broke the laws, since the political realities of doing so could just as easily end with her and her friends behind bars (or just executed or enslaved, depending on the place).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
She didn't imply such a thing. The sword or the Wall is Northern practice for executions, so she wants to drag him back home to judge him there.
 
We should hand him over. Politically it gets us another ally in the North and another way to pressure Ned to stay out of this conflict. Though in all honesty we should just have Cersei kill Robert and then it would be easy to get the Starks to back off when we kick Westeros up by the storm.
 
Azel said:
She didn't imply such a thing. The sword or the Wall is Northern practice for executions, so she wants to drag him back home to judge him there.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
DragonParadox said:
That is indeed the case.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Okay but what if he doesn't want to go? Maybe we're used to throwing around spells and calling it "capture" but battle magic that can break formations of infantry or blows that can shatter bone would still be called attempted murder wherever you go that isn't used to our MO.

With that said:

I believe if we find that Jorah is just in some Free City keeping a low profile, our next vote will end with a teleport and capture. I think the overwhelming majority here find that Jorah was just a bit too knowledgeable of the slave trade to have been mostly innocent beyond some extremely poor decision making, to go along with all of his other creepier tendencies that offend modern sensibilities.

But there's still the chance we'll scry and be like "okay, so, we're not getting involved in that right this second" because this is ASWaH and nothing ever goes as planned unless buried behind seven proxies divination wards.
 
Also, I realize objectively we wouldn't be throwing around fireballs or swording Jorah into compliance, we'd just be using Baleful Polymorph which is definitely not something that can be construed as being used to do more than capture one individual, but I meant what this group of low-level PCs would have had access to. Which is generally hitting hard enough to break a man in half, or send a handful of men-at-arms running screaming for their mothers.
 
[X] Crake

I don't really care enough about Jorah to spend two updates on him. Hopefully if he is just laying low in some free city Viserys decides to just capture and we can move on to more important things.
 
Crake said:
Also, I realize objectively we wouldn't be throwing around fireballs or swording Jorah into compliance, we'd just be using Baleful Polymorph which is definitely not something that can be construed as being used to do more than capture one individual, but I meant what this group of low-level PCs would have had access to. Which is generally hitting hard enough to break a man in half, or send a handful of men-at-arms running screaming for their mothers.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Smoky Confinement is even better than Turtling.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
[X] Crake

I don't really care enough about Jorah to spend two updates on him. Hopefully if he is just laying low in some free city Viserys decides to just capture and we can move on to more important things.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I could care so little about what we do with Jorah that I will stipulate in my vote that we will capture him if he's just schmoozing around in some podunk tavern somewhere. Give me a moment.
 
Last edited:
DragonParadox said:
OOC: The reason I did not move right to scry and capture is that Jorah did not break any of your laws, broke the laws of Robert Baratheon and Eddard Stark. If he is being a productive member of society in Western Essos there is a case to be made for Viserys leaving him alone. He has hired worse slavers than him.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I disagree, Jorah broke the law of Westeros, it might not be ours at the moment, but he nonetheless broke it, we only pardon slavers provided they give up slaving, and that's because the law is not retroactive, slaving was legal under the previous administration, and so if they give it up now that it's outlawed, they aren't criminals, Jorah on the other hand come from a country that outlaw slavery, and so he's a criminal even if not against us, which mean he don't have the protection, of only doing what his country say is okay.

If we find other countries that outlaw slavery, and then find people who were slavers anyway, then they will be treated as if they were imperial citizens committing slavery, because while the no slavery law only come in effect, when we take over if it wasn't there already, if it was there already, then people who broke it wont get a pardon.

It's not like we have been freeing everyone, who was in the dungeons of the places we conquered, if their crime wasn't illegal under Imperial law, then they should have been freed, but if it was illegal under Imperial law, then the best they could hope for was a retrial, in case the punishment by Imperial law is more lenient.

If we ever capture a Bravoosi slaver, then they wont get amnesty either, as they can't say that it's legal by their people's laws.
DragonParadox said:
Something like a third to half the captains in Viserys' navy have probably raided Westertosi shores of slaves at some point in their careers. Stepstones pirates were not the most discerning people
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's not the same, attacking a country don't make you a citizen of that country, and while a country will certainly enforce their laws on you while you are visiting, it's the country you're a citizen of, that you are expected to follow the law of no matter where you are.
 
Last edited:
[X] Offer to help her find the whereabouts of Jorah before making your offer (Scry)
-[X] "Something tells me, and pardon me if I have said this more than once in one month, that this won't be quite so simple."
-[X] For one thing we are probably going to scry Jorah and find out he's involved in something complicated in some form or another, which might or might not override her desire to make him face the Black. Also, it is worrisome that she implied that she would attack him outside the confines of the state which he broke the laws, since the political realities of doing so could just as easily end with her and her friends behind bars (or just executed or enslaved, depending on the place).
-[X] If however Jorah Mormont is just sitting around minding his own business somewhere innocuous enough, teleport and capture him, or make a note to do so when he is in private quarters.
 
[X] Plan Setting Policy
-[X] Tell her that you have no reason to doubt the word of House Mormont after all the times you've spoken to the Lord Commander and the fact that a Lord wouldn't flee his home without very good reason, but proper procedure must be followed.
-[X] You will Scry Jorah and proceed to talk with him to get his side of the story. Unless he can offer good arguments against his guilt and pass a Divination check, you will gladly turn him over to House Mormont to face proper justice for his deeds.
 
I really, really want to have Aly bite about a hundred volunteer Legion soldiers and pass on Werebear Lycanthropy to them.
 
Goldfish said:
I really, really want to have Aly bite about a hundred volunteer Legion soldiers and pass on Werebear Lycanthropy to them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Please limit this to level 5 legionnaires when we're lucky enough to get them for maximum effect. It's already hard enough to get people stupid enough to fight the Legion, so they have limited XP opportunities.
 
tarrangar said:
I disagree, Jorah broke the law of Westeros, it might not be ours at the moment, but he nonetheless broke it, we only pardon slavers provided they give up slaving, and that's because the law is not retroactive, slaving was legal under the previous administration, and so if they give it up now that it's outlawed, they aren't criminals, Jorah on the other hand come from a country that outlaw slavery, and so he's a criminal even if not against us, which mean he don't have the protection, of only doing what his country say is okay.

If we find other countries that outlaw slavery, and then find people who were slavers anyway, then they will be treated as if they were imperial citizens committing slavery, because while the no slavery law only come in effect, when we take over if it wasn't there already, if it was there already, then people who broke it wont get a pardon.

It's not like we have been freeing everyone, who was in the dungeons of the places we conquered, if their crime wasn't illegal under Imperial law, then they should have been freed, but if it was illegal under Imperial law, then the best they could hope for was a retrial, in case the punishment by Imperial law is more lenient.

If we ever capture a Bravoosi slaver, then they wont get amnesty either, as they can't say that it's legal by their people's laws.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

At the end of the day we have hired slavers (as in the people who literally raid ashore to grab people kicking and screaming into their ships to become bed slaves, hard laborers or even just demonstrative aides for torture equipment) and former slave magnates in droves, so it is always a political decision at the end of the day if the law was broken outside of our immediate oversight.

It just so happens that right now it is politically convenient to capture Jorah Mormont. If it was more convenient to shake his hand and pretend he hadn't been chased out of Westeros for slave trafficking, we would probably do it. He's, by and large, not actually worse than some of the people working for us. Creepiness aside.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top