To be fair, that's less their fault as entities and more the fault of the Necrontyr, C'tan, Old Ones and Ancient Eldar. They are, after all, the ones who fucked up the Warp. Cosmic reflections and all that.

And to a degree, Tzeentch's existence is actually moderately tragic. Its very nature prevents it from succeeding in any of its plans, because another part of it was plotting against that plan and...well, you get the picture. Humanity is basically just living in a massively backed up sewage plant of a galaxy and all the cleaning gear has broken down, been canabalised for spare parts, or eaten.
And yet he managed to plan the Horus Heresy and manage an alliance with the other three Chaos Gods. How suspiciously competent and pragmatic when it comes to doing evil. And for a god with the portfolio Hope and Change, he sure goes out of his way to fuck with innovation and do everything else in his power to enforce the status quo.
 
And yet he managed to plan the Horus Heresy and manage an alliance with the other three Chaos Gods. How suspiciously competent and pragmatic when it comes to doing evil. And for a god with the portfolio Hope and Change, he sure goes out of his way to fuck with innovation and do everything else in his power to enforce the status quo.
People being hypocritical in 40K? never.

[X] Duesal
 
And yet he managed to plan the Horus Heresy and manage an alliance with the other three Chaos Gods. How suspiciously competent and pragmatic when it comes to doing evil. And for a god with the portfolio Hope and Change, he sure goes out of his way to fuck with innovation and do everything else in his power to enforce the status quo.

See my point on how the Warp is utterly fucked. That's not the fault of the Dark Powers. Saying it is would be like blaming someone with a hereditary mental illness for their choice of parents. And the Horus Heresy, at its core? It could easily be seen as a power play against the Emperor, to stop him turning into the avatar of a newly born Chaos God of Order - I do ascribe to the belief that that's where he was going. All the people who died? The worlds burned? Collateral damage.

You think the status quo under Nurgle and the rest is bad? Imagine a Chaos God dedicated to the extreme of Order suddenly being the God-Avatar of Humanity. That sounds like something Tzeentch would go out of its way to shut down hard.
 
@DragonParadox
If we get lucky enough to capture one of those lovely Chronomancer Aboleths:

1) Will a book made out of them contain the entire set of ancestral memories?
2) Will the book be a source of the unfiltered rulelore? Undoubtedly it would need to be handled with extreme caution, I just care about having it.
3) For an Ulitharid (or a special Illithid) would a book give us any particular insight on the Elder Brain or does it not share plans?
 
See my point on how the Warp is utterly fucked. That's not the fault of the Dark Powers. Saying it is would be like blaming someone with a hereditary mental illness for their choice of parents. And the Horus Heresy, at its core? It could easily be seen as a power play against the Emperor, to stop him turning into the avatar of a newly born Chaos God of Order - I do ascribe to the belief that that's where he was going. All the people who died? The worlds burned? Collateral damage.

You think the status quo under Nurgle and the rest is bad? Imagine a Chaos God dedicated to the extreme of Order suddenly being the God-Avatar of Humanity. That sounds like something Tzeentch would go out of its way to shut down hard.
I think your missing my point. I'm trying to explain how Tzeentch can and has shown the capacity to set a goal and complete it. He has shown the capacity to control himself and his siblings from planning at cross purposes when necessary. All this and more when he wished.

So why doesn't he use his brain and win? By working with scientists, he could establish himself as the Patron God of innovation. Instead of getting that one high from a World exploding due to Chaos, why not build a working society dedicated to your worship?

In conclusion, I'm trying to say you can't have it both ways. Either Tzeentch is self aware and can control his impulses, or he's a schizophrenic ruler only by a desire for change.
 
@DragonParadox
If we get lucky enough to capture one of those lovely Chronomancer Aboleths:

1) Will a book made out of them contain the entire set of ancestral memories?
2) Will the book be a source of the unfiltered rulelore? Undoubtedly it would need to be handled with extreme caution, I just care about having it.
3) For an Ulitharid (or a special Illithid) would a book give us any particular insight on the Elder Brain or does it not share plans?

*rolls knowledge*

Viserys is not certain though he thinks that if you could make a book out of Aboleth ancestral memories its contents would likely drive most beings utterly insane. You might have to develop some kind of perception filter to make use of it
 
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[X] Duesal

Always happy to get some more bodies to throw at our enemies new allies.

Viserys is not certain though he thinks that if you could make a book out of Aboleth ancestral memories its contents would likely drive most beings utterly insane. You might have to develop some kind of perception filter to make us of it

Still a better story than Twilight.
 
OK vote closed, to to meet some more Northeners.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Apr 5, 2019 at 2:56 PM, finished with 44 posts and 10 votes.

  • [X] Mors Umber mentioned seeing another northern group only recently arrived from Bear Island, one of them a full-fledged Green Man—perhaps you might introduce yourself, or at least send an envoy
    -[X] Arrange to meet them away from prying eyes in one of the many inns in your city. From what Jeor has likely told them they will probably be well-inclined towards you, but you must get their measure nonetheless.
    -[X] See if the Inquisition can get you a proper report on them beforehand so you're not working off of guesswork.
 
*rolls knowledge*

Viserys is not certain though he thinks that if you could make a book out of Aboleth ancestral memories its contents would likely drive most beings utterly insane. You might have to develop some kind of perception filter to make use of it
Ultimately it should be just some extremely long book.

Or is it the truths-man-was-not-meant-to-know part? If so, we got Lya for that, who isn't matching any interpretation of man.
 
Ultimately it should be just some extremely long book.

Or is it the truths-man-was-not-meant-to-know part? If so, we got Lya for that, who isn't matching any interpretation of man.
One way or another we're getting this book. If there's anything that could surpass the Uniila Book in sheer scope, this is it.

Unless we also manage to bookify an Other, but those are far too useful as sacrifices.
 
Ultimately it should be just some extremely long book.

Or is it the truths-man-was-not-meant-to-know part? If so, we got Lya for that, who isn't matching any interpretation of man.

It's the fact that it seems to twist the concept of causality in impossible yet still somehow dreadfully true ways. Lya will probably have to work a great deal to wring usable knowledge from it.
 
It's the fact that it seems to twist the concept of causality in impossible yet still somehow dreadfully true ways. Lya will probably have to work a great deal to wring usable knowledge from it.
Lya: "Awesome."

As for me, the twisting of causality sounds just delightful. I still dream of that Serpent Stone computer that uses the principle of explosion, divination and the P =/= NP imbalance to calculate anything.


Would it help to read a Deimavigga as a primer? They too know dreadful, mind-shattering truths about the universe, but theirs are comprehensible to mortals.
 
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Lya: "Awesome."

As for me, the twisting of causality sounds just delightful. I still dream of that Serpent Stone computer that uses the principle of explosion, divination and the P =/= NP imbalance to calculate anything.


Would it help to read a Deimavigga as a primer? They too know dreadful, mind-shattering truths about the universe, but theirs are comprehensible to mortals.
I'd like a Deimavigga book as well.
 
Lya: "Awesome."

As for me, the twisting of causality sounds just delightful. I still dream of that Serpent Stone computer that uses the principle of explosion, divination and the P =/= NP imbalance to calculate anything.


Would it help to read a Deimavigga as a primer? They too know dreadful, mind-shattering truths about the universe, but theirs are comprehensible to mortals.

Maybe, Viserys does not have enough basis for comparison to guess.
 
[X] Duesal

Always happy to get some more bodies to throw at our enemies new allies.



Still a better story than Twilight.
That's not hard admittedly. That book only looks vaguely like a love story because Bella must have been dropped on her head as a baby and thus has no survival instincts. Has anyone else bothered to read the leaked draft Meyer did on Edward's perspective of Twilight? Its creepy as hell. He oils Bella's window hinges so he can get into her room and watch her sleep without the chance of her waking up. That's effing terrifying stalker behaviour.
 
That's not hard admittedly. That book only looks vaguely like a love story because Bella must have been dropped on her head as a baby and thus has no survival instincts. Has anyone else bothered to read the leaked draft Meyer did on Edward's perspective of Twilight? Its creepy as hell. He oils Bella's window hinges so he can get into her room and watch her sleep without the chance of her waking up. That's effing terrifying stalker behaviour.
Teens liked this shit. I remind the thread that this was a series made into a movie. This heaping pile of trash was turned into a multi million dollar production....humanity deserves to die
 
@Azel
I think those might be different kinds of dreadfull truths.

The Deimavigga can tell you that all the "good" gods need the Nine Hells and will never let them be soundly defeated for it would collapse their own power-base and leave them to fight the Endless Abyss alone.
He can argue that point, that Hell can never truly loose and will eventually even win, with great skill.

The Aboleth on the other hand has more dreadful truths of the variant "We are all Azatoths dream and when he wakes up we cease to exist".

Very different style, at least that's my guess.
 
Maybe, Viserys does not have enough basis for comparison to guess.
We have clearly been slacking off in the department of brainmelting lore.

What's the point of having a forbidden section in the Scholarium library if only one of the books tries to actively kill you and none of them drive you mad by the time you have finished reading the index?
 
@Azel
I think those might be different kinds of dreadfull truths.

The Deimavigga can tell you that all the "good" gods need the Nine Hells and will never let them be soundly defeated for it would collapse their own power-base and leave them to fight the Endless Abyss alone.
He can argue that point, that Hell can never truly loose and will eventually even win, with great skill.

The Aboleth on the other hand has more dreadful truths of the variant "We are all Azatoths dream and when he wakes up we cease to exist".

Very different style, at least that's my guess.
The solution is clear then. We need a book made from a high priest of Azatoth.
 
We have clearly been slacking off in the department of brainmelting lore.

What's the point of having a forbidden section in the Scholarium library if only one of the books tries to actively kill you and none of them drive you mad by the time you have finished reading the index?
Eh, our section is more of a "Lore how to create undead monstruosities, and how to retain mind when making one of yourself" at the moment, really :/

Amrelath's accounts of phylactery-creating process and Wyla's book on sane lichdom are probably two most terrifyingly stacking pieces of knowledge we have...

And both simply due to being too dangerous in idiots' hands.
For said idiots :V

Well, that, and Uniila-book.
(Rakshasa' soulf-flaying techniques and Devil-bound-tomes are generally discounted for not being anywhere near useful at this point of time)
 
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