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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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TotallyNotEvil said:
Sure, we have literally thousands of people using this in our army.
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Got it, then 8, 15, 14, 12, 10, 13
Well, could I interest you in Warshaper for Alysande? It's a shapeshifting focused class, and pretty good.

Tho I don't know how married to the sword she is.
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Holy shit, two levels in that her str is through the roof! You have convinced me it's mechanically better and her skill with a sword can be kept at a minor level since DP let's us train weapon proficiencies.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
If you read it like a sane person that you get the one extra natural attack, then it's "pretty good". Excellent for shape shifters, even.

I would not say "best melee damage-increasing class around". Immune to crits and stunning, growing an extra natural weapon or improving an existing one, +4 STR/CON when morphed, +5 ft reach, Fast Healing 2 and shapeshifting as a move action are all great.

But it's a d8, 2+INT, 3/4 BAB, weak Ref/Will chassis. Not free.

Even if it's almost always worth it.
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You lose 1 BAB, get fast healing for the 5 HP you'll lose (and regain it while morphed, which you should always be), and get extra melee attacks.
The "best damage increaser" is because you can grow ALL your weapons, not just one. And it stacks with itself: you can just spend a few rounds and turn your claws Colossal for something like 8d6 damage per attack instead of 1d6. Now walking around and using doors with claws a meter long sounds like a pain, but in a fight it makes sense.
True, if you don't accept "endless tentacles" and aren't something like a Ravid or a Hydra with a million arms, then this class isn't utterly broken (even monks can get that sort of damage at high level, with good builds). But Warshaper is by no means a weak class!
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Blue Wyrmling takes 8 progress, we can do it in one month.

We are 12k XP from Miracle.
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Was originally scheduled for this month, but then people started demanding specific people to do it and not wanting to invest the time. I'm not going to put it back in unless there is clear support for it in the thread.
One Autumn Leaf said:
What is Lys's local intrigue mission being used for?
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Nothing so far. It would default to in-depth spying on everyone.
 
Mormont said:
Unlike his companions Wyl is not from a noble background. Instead he could have easily been one of the poachers sold into slavery if hadn't been lucky enough to have an uncle in Old Mormonts guards that got him hired. He is loyal to Lady Mormont but after his adventures to Alysane first. He uses TWF with two short swords.
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He could be a Ranger instead of a Rogue. He particularly good at killing a certain kind of thing?
TalonofAnathrax said:
The "best damage increaser" is because you can grow ALL your weapons, not just one. And it stacks with itself: you can just spend a few rounds and turn your claws Colossal for something like 8d6 damage per attack instead of 1d6. Now walking around and using doors with claws a meter long sounds like a pain, but in a fight it makes sense.
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If you purposefully read it in the most broken and glaringly incorrect way possible, yeah.

Aka, in normal gameplay, it's a good, well rounded class.
 
Azel said:
Was originally scheduled for this month, but then people started demanding specific people to do it and not wanting to invest the time. I'm not going to put it back in unless there is clear support for it in the thread.
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If the only point of contention is that, then that can get its own separate vote.

How long has it been IRL since we got Ysandrix? Six months?
 
If we do get to the Blue Dragon Wyrmling this turn, I want Viserys there at the very end, just like he was there at the end of the process to bring Amrelath back to life. It's important for the dragon overlord to receive his new minion.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Blue Wyrmling takes 8 progress, we can do it in one month.

We are 12k XP from Miracle.
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Speaking as someone who couldn't care less about freeing the Blue Wyrm, that 8 progress could be put toward better uses. Viserys will have Miracle soon enough.

@Azel I'm still looking through the proposal. I like the updated format. It speaks to my inner crazy person. I did freeze the top row of the sheet, though, to keep it in place while scrolling.
 
Azel said:
Edit: Also, I still do not care on yota for that wyrmling and would happily chop him up for parts.
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Goldfish said:
Speaking as someone who couldn't care less about freeing the Blue Wyrm, that 8 progress could be put toward better uses. Viserys will have Miracle soon enough.

@Azel I'm still looking through the proposal. I like the updated format. It speaks to my inner crazy person. I did freeze the top row of the sheet, though, to keep it in place while scrolling.
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I'm perfectly happy to wait until we get Miracle. That's research that doesn't have to happen.
 
Goldfish said:
Speaking as someone who couldn't care less about freeing the Blue Wyrm, that 8 progress could be put toward better uses. Viserys will have Miracle soon enough.

@Azel I'm still looking through the proposal. I like the updated format. It speaks to my inner crazy person. I did freeze the top row of the sheet, though, to keep it in place while scrolling.
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I... just couldn't bring myself to do that. The first column should also be fixed. And the headers and subheaders should also be fixed at the top while scrolling until you pass the next header or subheader.
It's better then without, but that just highlights all the good it lacks...
:cry:
 
Azel said:
I... just couldn't bring myself to do that. The first column should also be fixed. And the headers and subheaders should also be fixed at the top while scrolling until you pass the next header or subheader.
It's better then without, but that just highlights all the good it lacks...
:cry:
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Google Docs is nice, but the spreadsheet lacks a lot of the functionality I'm accustomed to using in Excel. Or I'm simply not familiar enough with the interface to use it properly. Either way, it's better to err on the side of simplicity, IMO, instead of trying to make it too complex and thus making it more difficult to update in the future without breaking the pretty formatting.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
If you purposefully read it in the most broken and glaringly incorrect way possible, yeah.

Aka, in normal gameplay, it's a good, well rounded class.
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That's your opinion. I first read the class as a monk-ish PrC that you could only qualify for at high level, meant to boost melee damage like crazy at the cost of wasting precious rounds of shapeshifting duration on increasing weapon sizes AND of losing iteratives due to relying on a small number of natural weapons.
Seemed like a strong but limited PrC, you know? Requiring setup, boosting melee damage at the cost of attack numbers, like many other martial options out there? Monks could already get oodles of melee damage without having to go from Unarmed Attacks to Claw Attacks (a downgrade, IMO) - this class was just a cool new way to do it, and it made it more straightforwards.

Then I realized that there are races like Changeling with infinite shapeshifting from a low level, and ways to get dozens of natural weapons (grafts, etc) even without deliberately exploiting the "endless tentacles" portion of the class. Suddenly a strong PrC held back by qualification issues and setup requirements becomes really really good: very easy to qualify for and use effectively, and can be stacked with other strong melee builds.
 
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Goldfish said:
Google Docs is nice, but the spreadsheet lacks a lot of the functionality I'm accustomed to using in Excel. Or I'm simply not familiar enough with the interface to use it properly. Either way, it's better to err on the side of simplicity, IMO, instead of trying to make it too complex and thus making it more difficult to update in the future without breaking the pretty formatting.
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Yeah. I was already leery of breaking the sheet up further with so many sub-headers, but it made everything so much better. The alphabetical ordering was decent, but unwieldy due to the number of people and it was horrible to look for someone when you forgot the persons name or how it was spelled. I could never decide for S/Zvitran or C/Koron Redmane. Let alone keeping the merry assortment of C* Storm that is the Misfits straight....
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
Yes that 8 progress could be used towards something else...like decoding more books?
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Yeah, if there's any free research space then there's Laenor Targaryen who can be resurrected and hopefully in a few months be used as a PC, preferably as another researcher. And fingers crossed on the expedition actually working and Saenena finding her kids.
 
@Azel I'm not sure exactly how much work it would be, but I think adding the actual dice that will be rolled for each action, rather than just the average outcome, would make it much simpler to interpret the plan and to interact with it. Rather than simply saying 7 for average progress, for example, it could be 7 (2d6).
 
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@Azel, double checking with you, but do we not want to offer Uthero or the Sealord the chance to invest with us? I forgot to consider them earlier.
 
Goldfish said:
@Azel I'm not sure exactly how much work it would be, but I think adding the actual dice that will be rolled for each action, rather than just the average outcome, would make it much simpler to interpret the plan and to interact with it. Rather than simply saying 7 for average progress, for example, it could be 7 (2d6).
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It's ultimately just typing it out, but the raises the question if you want to sum up the aid dice or note down from where they are coming. Not summing them up would make it a lot more work and a royal mess for larger actions, thus I only do that for special modifiers like Best Coatl Aid.

Generally though, I'm not seeing much benefit. I mentally parse multiples of 7 as multiples of 2d6 anyway.
Which is not to say that others wouldn't see benefit from this, but I'm really not the right person to judge that.
Duesal said:
@Azel, double checking with you, but do we not want to offer Uthero or the Sealord the chance to invest with us? I forgot to consider them earlier.
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Added.
 
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Azel said:
It's ultimately just typing it out, but the raises the question if you want to sum up the aid dice or note down from where they are coming. Not summing them up would make it a lot more work and a royal mess for larger actions, thus I only do that for special modifiers like Best Coatl Aid.

Generally though, I'm not seeing much benefit. I mentally parse multiples of 7 as multiples of 2d6 anyway.
Which is not to say that others wouldn't see benefit from this, but I'm really not the right person to judge that.
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Actually, I would consider renaming the "Average Progress" column to "Potential Progress" and only including the number of dice to be rolled.

Averages can be very misleading, and when DP rolls, a 2d6 can just as easily come up with a total of 2 or 12.

Aid dice can be added together easily. If a total of 5d6 Aid dice are dedicated to an action, DP would just need to input that into the dice roller program and BHAM, results.
 
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