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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Duesal said:
The problem was that nobody but Robert had a decent claim to the throne since his grandmother was a Targaryen, so they were all pretty much stuck with either him or Stannis.
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That was a flimsy justification and everyone knows it. Nobody would have been shocked or outraged if they had installed a new regime, given that they killed most of the old one in an armed uprising.
 
Hmm... We shouldnt underestinate Mace the Ace, whoever stupid he seems at first glance. He's actually quite crafty if you analyse his actions in canon with a careful eye devoid of other character' prejudice and opinions. I can explain more if anyone's asking.

He may have had a plan to deal with the treasury loss, or otherwise use the whole scheme to his benefit and to rod himself of the Fay and the far more troublesom debts he may have accrued with them. Money is far easier to regain than souls or Fey bargained identity.

(I also suspect The Queen of Thornes's public and constant belittlement of his intelligence is a ploy cooked up between the two of them, one that has fooled literally everyone in Westeros.)
 
Azel said:
Robert was at best a middling choice. He was better then Hoster Tully or Balon Greyjoy. About equal with Mace Tyrell or Doran Martell. Tywin Lannister, Ned Stark or Jon Arryn himself would have all been significantly better picks.

To say nothing about other arrangements that could have been found.
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Wait, what? Robert was a well-known, likeable choice. Meanwhile Doran was a Dornishman (so as likely to be accepted as a black mayor of Atlanta in 1910), Mace was known as a fool and impressed nobody during the civil war, and Tywin seems to have 2 settings: "rule through fear" and "declare war" :D

I seriously think that Robert got the job because he was popular and likeable and has a decent claim, and Jon expected to handle intrigue himself. Not a bad plan in theory - although in practice it wildly overestimated Robert's competence as well as his own.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Wait, what? Robert was a well-known, likeable choice. Meanwhile Doran was a Dornishman (so as likely to be accepted as a black mayor of Atlanta in 1910), Mace was known as a fool and impressed nobody during the civil war, and Tywin seems to have 2 settings: "rule through fear" and "declare war" :D

I seriously think that Robert got the job because he was popular and likeable and has a decent claim, and Jon expected to handle intrigue himself. Not a bad plan in theory - although in practice it wildly overestimated Robert's competence as well as his own.
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Robert was brash, unfocused lout since childhood. It was patently obvious to someone in Arryn's position has his former guardian that he would not be capable of keeping the mess together. He was also still very young, unwed and had no heirs, making him a shaky choice to found a new royal dynasty.

Mace on the other hand would have had the backup power from the Reach to solidify his rule and Arryn would have had a strong ally in Olenna to keep everything clean. The big wrinkle here is that he was on the loosing side of the war, but that could have been spun.
Doran on the other hand is plain capable and would have made a good king, though his political isolation and being on the wrong side of the war too would have made him a very hard sell.

The best choice for a new dynasty would have been to force Jaime out of the Kingsguard to be heir to the new king Tywin, setting Arryn as Hand to keep Tywins harsher impulses in check.

The absolutely best choice would have been a elective monarchy, where the LP's vote on the new Iron King after his death from among themselves. Arryn would have had enough votes to become the first one, stabilized the realm and then could have had groomed a decent successor in Ned.
 
I think trying to get him to betray his house for us after what the devils were doing would be fucking stupid, instead we should take him with us to the Queen of Thorns where we let her know about the situation directly. From there depending on her reaction we can offer any number of levels of assistance.
 
The best thing Jon could have done was made the Throne an elective title amongst all of the High Lords, but that likely would have led to a Star League type situation with no Lord able to agree on who should be King.

It wouldn't have been quite as bad and ruled by personal ego as Battletech, but no more than three would have been able to agree on one King, and the deadlock would break apart the Seven Kingdoms from there if long enough had passed since the first King.
 
Crake said:
The best thing Jon could have done was made the Throne an elective title amongst all of the High Lords, but that likely would have led to a Star League type situation with no Lord able to agree on who should be King.

It wouldn't have been quite as bad and ruled by personal ego as Battletech, but no more than three would have been able to agree on one King, and the deadlock would break apart the Seven Kingdoms from there if long enough had passed since the first King.
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Very unlikely actually. Arryn had a strong alliance and could have easily become the first king, then shaped the political landscape to ensure a successor with good support, most likely Ned, as he would have 4 votes from the BAST block and would just need to sway Balon, Mace or Doran to support him. Tywin would meanwhile angle to get Jaime elected, and potentially pave the way for Tyrion of all people.

From there on you should have enough momentum to keep the situation stable, especially if things like the Greyjoy revolt show that the Iron King is still strong enough to keep the realm together.
 
DragonParadox said:
"She said it wasn't really interesting for her..." Garth shudders again. "She offered me little freedoms if I would do things, make small sacrifices, first it was my own blood, then a dove's heart, then a lamb... I refused to kill the lamb since I saw the pattern, I realized the next offering would probably be a man and if I just stopped then she would just kill the sacrifice anyway to spite me."
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Look at this guy! All cool and focused under pressure. I like him. I think he might be the first high garden related person I like and I include Olenna in that statement.
 
Azel said:
Very unlikely actually. Arryn had a strong alliance and could have easily become the first king, then shaped the political landscape to ensure a successor with good support, most likely Ned, as he would have 4 votes from the BAST block and would just need to sway Balon, Mace or Doran to support him. Tywin would meanwhile angle to get Jaime elected, and potentially pave the way for Tyrion of all people.

From there on you should have enough momentum to keep the situation stable, especially if things like the Greyjoy revolt show that the Iron King is still strong enough to keep the realm together.
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It could work, if it were literally anyone than Jon Arryn responsible for keeping it together.
 
Preliminary vote because I want to see DP's take on Olenna Tyrell.

[X] Speak with the true Lord of the Reach
-[X] Ask Garth on how much Olenna Tyrell knows about what's going on.
--[X] Get him to request an audience for us, confrontational in case she's wholly in denial.
--[X] Otherwise, get her measure and tell her of the devils in the Reach without naming names.
 
[X] Questions for Garth
-[X] What has Garth been ordered by the Devils to do against the fey, aside from inciting war between them and Highgarden?
-[X] What courts aside from the Court of Stars is Garth aware of?
--[X] What can Garth tell us about the Court of Stars?
---[X] What prominent fey is Garth aware of? (A list of fey lords and ladies alongside basic descriptions of appearance and/or personality would be great)
---[X] What activities by the Court of Stars is he aware of?
-[X] What locations into the Feywild is Garth aware of, where are they, and what are they guarded by?
-[X] Can Garth describe the types of fey that frequent Highgarden? How often do they visit? Which ones tend to visit?
-[X] What supernatural activity in the Reach aside from the fey and devils is Garth aware of? (Deep Ones, Demons, etc)
-[X] What rumors of the Reach and Westeros as a whole is Garth able to pass on?

List of non-invasive questions that we probably want answers to.
 
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[X] Duesal

Fine for now. I need a bit longer and some details on the financial situation to formulate a decent plan anyway.
 
DragonParadox said:
They are not fully broke yet just a lot less solvent then they should be (their treasury stands one and a half million marks when it should be closer to four million marks). I'll have a list done in a few hours I need to think about what the numbers would be.
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Sounds as if they are deep in the red when you account for liabilities and their debtors have a certain running theme of dying violent deaths...

Edit: Also, it's damn hilarious that our coup in Lys was partially co-funded by Mammon of all people. :D
 
Azel said:
Sounds as if they are deep in the red when you account for liabilities and their debtors have a certain running theme of dying violent deaths...

Edit: Also, it's damn hilarious that our coup in Lys was partially co-funded by Mammon of all people. :D
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Plots tangling within plots tangling within plots.
 
bigbow said:
He's more of a plot device than a character, honestly. He sets the stage for half of ASOIAF's plot by his sheer incompetency, which includes but is not limited to: Raising Peter Balesish to Master of Coin, letting Varys stay around (that ones really crazy. I get that Westerosi are not the most educated in intrigue, but you dont depose Stalin and leave Beria hanging around. Its just basic common sense), selling the realm to Tywin and letting the Lannisters reap 80% of the benefits of the war for what amounted to a sack and a bunch of noble corpses, botching Stannis and Storms End, overseeing the descent of Robert into debauchery and debt, being a shitty and/or oblivious family man and botching his line and the future of the Vale...

Honestly we could go all day about this.
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You know, the Tywin thing specifically makes the Tyrell strategy make complete sense retroactively. Why not sit your ass out of any major war, kill steal and get the best goodies while having relatively unbloodied forces ready to strong-arm even the winners?

[X] Duesal
 
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