That's one highly questionable trick, mind you. Afaik, it doesn't actually work, at least that's what I remember when researching ti recently.

It comes down to exact reading. And to be fair, as I said, any sane DM will throw their DMG at you if you try. And yet, I'm pretty sure we used a similar trick to cheese Lya into Mystic Theurge at level 5. So, y'know. That.
 
Yup, once you have BBEG levels and resources. You will have to be level 8 before you can create your first undead though. It would be struggle city to get to that point.
A single LEVEL 2 Illumian Cleric with Fell Drain and Persistent Spell can create endless wights (Persisted Fell Drain Cloud of Knives). Use domains to get Extend Spell and Extra Turning for free, use Flaws or worship an Elder Evil to get enough feats.
A single Sorcerer with Fell Drain and Versatile Spellcaster can cast a Fell Drained Sonic Snap, instantly kill any 1 HD creature and thus creating a Wight. Controlling it is a pain, but a Wight has Int 11 and can thus be diplomanced (and there are feats to help with "not being attacked by undead").
 
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A single LEVEL 2 Illumian Cleric with Fell Drain can create endless wights.
A single Sorcerer with Fell Drain and Versatile Spellcaster can cast a Fell Drained Sonic Snap, instantly kill any 1 HD creature and thus create a Wight. Controlling it is a pain, but a Wight has Int 11 and can thus be diplomanced (and there are feats to help with "not being attacked by undead").

Ah, I was wondering when the full tilt cheesefest would arrive :p
Fitting that it comes from a Frenchy
 
You can't learn the spell until level 8 though so the versatile spellcaster perk doesn't help there. And yes, the class itself is good even if you don't actually start any of the minionmancy until level 8. Which kinda makes my point about many of the best necromancy features not actually relating to creating undead.
At least you gain Rebuke undead at level 1.

I can't make a skeleton with my level 2 Dread Necro, but I can sure as hell steal the first one I come across for my own minions.
 
Here are the first joust match ups:
  1. Ser Bonifer Hasty (Hedge knight) vs Ser Forley Waters (Legion Lancer)
  2. Ser Benjicot Brown (Hedge knight) vs Ser Archibald Yronwood (Mystery knight)
  3. Ser Criston Storm (Hedge knight) vs Ser Halys Belmore (Mystery knight)
  4. Ser Horas Redwyne (Mystery knight) vs Ser Roger 'Reyne' Hill (Hedge knight)
  5. Ser Hyle Buckwell (Mystery knight) vs Vardis Sunderland (Mystery 'knight')
  6. Ser Gerold Dayne, known as Darkstar, the Knight of High Hermitage (Mystery knight) vs Ser Philip Foote (Mystery Knight)
  7. Ivezhqoy 'The Dothraki' vs Ser Harras Harlaw (Mystery knight)
  8. Ser Jon Redford (Mystery knight) vs 'Ser' Gaevon Nargaris (Braavosi 'knight')
  9. Ser 'Red' Ronnet Connington (Mystery knight) vs Ser Karyl Grafton (Mystery knight)
  10. Jaedor Taraellis (Volantine Old Blood/Tiger/Distant cousin of Hermetia) vs Ser Raynald Mooton (Mystery knight)
  11. Ser Karl Terrick (Mystery knight) vs Vinarr Laeraenor (Tyroshi Magister
  12. Ser Raymun Darry (Mystery knight) vs Ser Gerold Torchwood (General of 1st Legion and newly raised nobility)
  13. Tytos Brune (Not a Mystery Knight) vs Ser Walder Frey called the Black (Mystery knight)
  14. Vaevar called 'the Valiant' (Sellsword, formerly in the service of Lys) vs Ser Wendel Manderly (Mystery knight)
  15. Ser Richard Horpe (Mystery knight) vs Ser Harmen Flowers (Bastard son of Lord Graceford)
  16. Ser Quincy Peake called the Quarreller (Hedge knight) vs Ser Erren Florent (Mystery knight)
1. Bonifer wins easily. Our poor Legionaries aren't lucky in the draw. :(
2. Benjicot
3. Christon
4. My money is on Horas
5. *shrug*
6. Dayne, by a landslide
7. Ivez
8. While I would have liked Redfort to go further, my money is on the Braavosi
9. Probably in favor of Connington
10. betting on the Volantene
11. Terrick, since I'm not expecting much from the magister
12. A loyalist against our general... still, Gerold will win this
13. Dammit. Walder Black will carry this, but I would have really loved for Brune to go further
14. Vaevar seemed pretty competent so my money is on him
15. *shrug*
16. *also shrug*
 
I mean RAW (which has been his big argument), it only allows you to cast spells you know. And you also aren't allowed to learn spells you cannot cast. No normal GM will allow that.
Dread Necromancers and Beguilers know every single spell on their class list for some reason, even if they can't cast them yet (like Warmages). Versatile Spellcaster lets them cast them. It's amazing, isn't it?

Otherwise you can use Snowcasting and Sanctum Spell to qualify for Extra Slots of a higher level than you can actually cast, therefore getting level 4 spells as a Wizard 5 (faster if Flaws are allowed - then you can cast level 4 spells as a Wizard 3!)

Cheesy? Yes. But it works.
 
Dread Necromancers and Beguilers know every single spell on their class list for some reason, even if they can't cast them yet (like Warmages). Versatile Spellcaster lets them cast them. It's amazing, isn't it?

Otherwise you can use Snowcasting and Sanctum Spell to qualify for Extra Slots of a higher level than you can actually cast, therefore getting level 4 spells as a Wizard 5 (faster if Flaws are allowed - then you can cast level 4 spells as a Wizard 3!)

Cheesy? Yes. But it works.

You must have a permanent imprint on your skull from where all the DMGs have hit you :V
 
And yet, I'm pretty sure we used a similar trick to cheese Lya into Mystic Theurge at level 5. So, y'know. That.
No, we used Alternate Source spell for Lya to qualify.

It's Anya who cheesed with Precocious Apprentice and Alternate Source to gain Mystic Theurge at 4th.

Then again, Anya is a scatter-shot build made from no less then 6 classes, so I regret nothing.
 
Nope, when they gain access to a new level of spells while leveling they automatically learn all spells of that level on their list.
Pretty sure you're wrong. Source?
I just finished a campaign where my Beguiler used Versatile Spellcaster to qualify for Shadowcraft Mage at level 6 instead of 8. We looked it up at the time, it seemed to work fine.

In any case, in this game we're already using the Versatile Spellcaster trick for Hermetia!
 
Pretty sure you're wrong. Source?
I just finished a campaign where my Beguiler used Versatile Spellcaster to qualify for Shadowcraft Mage at level 6 instead of 8. We looked it up at the time, it seemed to work fine.

In any case, in this game we're already using the Versatile Spellcaster trick for Hermetia!

The source I was given on the class ( Dread Necromancer – Class – D&D Tools ). Relevant section is spellcasting.

Beguilers may be totally different, idk.

Edit: I could be wrong, thats just my reading of it. I am not super attached to the reading of it and the versatile spellcaster thing may work.
 
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There are lines that can't be crossed though.

Though where that line is... hard to gauge at times. Depends on the person doing the mechanics.
 
Additional point of order, we used Shivering Touch first in the dreamlands fight we had in Volantis.
The only really bad thing about the spell is that it's pretty low level for how ridiculously good it is, supposedly balanced by its range.

Then you slap Reached onto it and...
 
Additional point of order, we used Shivering Touch first in the dreamlands fight we had in Volantis.
With a 'but that was the dreamlands, stuff happens when you imagine it ..." caveat. Or so I remember.
Edit: And I still think an immunity from cold would also protect versus [Cold] spells.
 
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The only really bad thing about the spell is that it's pretty low level for how ridiculously good it is, supposedly balanced by its range.

Then you slap Reached onto it and...

Or just remember that Spectral Hand exists.

In fairness, that was when we were level 9 and going solo against an Adult Nightmare Dragon. At the time I thought DP was letting us make an exception to not die.

In fairness, we made the choice to fight the Adult Nightmare Dragon solo.
 
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