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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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TalonofAnathrax said:
@Goldfish, Spell Sieve is a trap option. A great many spells are very useful against players, but situationally terrible against enemies. I think that Spell Sieve looks nice, but is actually subpar compared to other, better choices (like Touch spells at range !).

And if you're taking Inspired Spell, you may as well take Wild Arcana with it too. Trying to compromise here doesn't make much sense. Unless you compromise by making Wild Arcana a swift action, but by limiting it to spells known. That would be nice, but would fail the "no homebrew" objective.
Of course, I think that suddenly making Lya a mighty spontaneous spellcaster doesn't make much sense, but what have you.

People, I'm resigned to the OP-ness of Mythic. I'm not on some crusade to "gimp" our strongest PC (yes, Lya's Capstone is definitely stronger than Visery's, especially if she crafts her own sweet artefact gear in the near future). No, I just feel a little uncomfortable with pushing Lya into a full crafter role (some proposals stank of that, making me nervous about the future) or making her a sorcerer with all spells known.


:facepalm:
I can't believe I hadn't realized that!

Well then, here's another nitpick about Snowfire's stuff: We get to bestow cleric spells of up to the 9th circle without taking the relevant Mythic Path Ability 3 times? Damn, that's a nice upgrade. I guess that having to wait for our Mythic Rank to rise is a downgrade in the short-term, but an advantage in the long-term?
Ah well, it's mostly fluff anyway.

Still, overall I am very happy with Viserys' Ascendant path. I'm just nitpicking here. Please tell me if I've misunderstood how that works too.
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Talon, you are really just letting some things slip through the gap lately.

Lya's PC capstone is to make LITEARLLY multiple bodies.

She can craft and fight at the same time, but gets better macro-scale returns from being able to craft better. She will ALWAYS be a powerful full-caster with Divine and Arcane spells.

It is about getting more mileage out of being a crafter. The problem with being a crafter even part-time at high levels, and especially in our Verse where we have access to delegated craftbots, is you have to be able to do something TRULY unique to waste time on the crafting feats instead of stuff that makes you a better spellcaster, like, say, being able to craft items much more quickly, or much more cheaply, and even make them unique beyond what anyone else could.
 
Crake said:
Talon, you are really just letting some things slip through the gap lately.

Lya's PC capstone is to make LITEARLLY multiple bodies.

She can craft and fight at the same time, but gets better macro-scale returns from being able to craft better. She will ALWAYS be a powerful full-caster with Divine and Arcane spells.

It is about getting more mileage out of being a crafter. The problem with being a crafter even part-time at high levels, and especially in our Verse where we have access to delegated craftbots, is you have to be able to do something TRULY unique to waste time on the crafting feats instead of stuff that makes you a better spellcaster, like, say, being able to craft items much more quickly, or much more cheaply, and even make them unique beyond what anyone else could.
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Bah!
We have a million projects, each cooler than the next. Therefore I'm afraid that the first thing that people will ask for will be to put every single Lya on project stuff. More giant constructs, WMDs and research projects. Upgrades, incredibly strong gear fit to wear against Deep One cities...
There will be temptation to do this. I hope it loses.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Bah!
We have a million projects, each cooler than the next. Therefore I'm afraid that the first thing that people will ask for will be to put every single Lya on project stuff. More giant constructs, WMDs and research projects. Upgrades, incredibly strong gear fit to wear against Deep One cities...
There will be temptation to do this. I hope it loses.
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I have always raged and railed against Lya not being with Viserys through some of his more perilous and character defining moments.

If, after getting more than one body, we don't have Lya around for most if not all of them going forward, I will be most displeased.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
@Goldfish, Spell Sieve is a trap option. A great many spells are very useful against players, but situationally terrible against enemies. I think that Spell Sieve looks nice, but is actually subpar compared to other, better choices (like Touch spells at range !).

And if you're taking Inspired Spell, you may as well take Wild Arcana with it too. Trying to compromise here doesn't make much sense. Unless you compromise by making Wild Arcana a swift action, but by limiting it to spells known. That would be nice, but would fail the "no homebrew" objective.
Of course, I think that suddenly making Lya a mighty spontaneous spellcaster doesn't make much sense, but what have you.

People, I'm resigned to the OP-ness of Mythic. I'm not on some crusade to "gimp" our strongest PC (yes, Lya's Capstone is definitely stronger than Visery's, especially if she crafts her own sweet artefact gear in the near future). No, I just feel a little uncomfortable with pushing Lya into a full crafter role (some proposals stank of that, making me nervous about the future) or making her a sorcerer with all spells known.


:facepalm:
I can't believe I hadn't realized that!

Well then, here's another nitpick about Snowfire's stuff: We get to bestow cleric spells of up to the 9th circle without taking the relevant Mythic Path Ability 3 times? Damn, that's a nice upgrade. I guess that having to wait for our Mythic Rank to rise is a downgrade in the short-term, but an advantage in the long-term?
Ah well, it's mostly fluff anyway.

Still, overall I am very happy with Viserys' Ascendant path. I'm just nitpicking here. Please tell me if I've misunderstood how that works too.
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That's not how Divine Source works. You only need to take it once to be able to grant all levels of Divine spells. The caveat is that you cannot grant a level of spells higher than your Tier.

Taking Divine Source multiple times just gives you access to more Domains and Subdomains.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
@Goldfish: Wild Arcana feels like more Draconic Wishcraft. We've been doing that for ages, it's part of Viserys.
But Lya? Lya learns and prepares spells. It's been a huge part of her character arc since the very beginning! Therefore, I'm unhappy with the idea of just giving her access to every single Wizard and Divine spell all at once.

People, is this really so insane? I don't feel like an arbitrary contrarian here.
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I agree with you entirely on this point.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Snowfire's stuff: We get to bestow cleric spells of up to the 9th circle without taking the relevant Mythic Path Ability 3 times? Damn, that's a nice upgrade. I guess that having to wait for our Mythic Rank to rise is a downgrade in the short-term, but an advantage in the long-term?
Ah well, it's mostly fluff anyway.
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For some reason I thought that too, but no:
You can grant divine spells to those who follow your cause, allowing them to select you as their deity for the purposes of determining their spells and domains. Select two domains upon taking this ability. These domains must be alignment domains matching your alignment if possible, unless your alignment is neutral. You grant access to these domains as if you were a deity. Creatures that gain spells from you don't receive any spells per day of levels higher than your tier; they lose those spell slots. In addition, you can cast spells from domains you grant as long as their level is equal to or less than your tier. Each day as a spell-like ability, you can cast one spell of each level equal to or less than your tier (selecting from those available to you from your divine source domains). If you're a cleric or you venerate a deity, you may change your spell domains to those you grant others. At 6th tier and 9th tier, you can select this ability again, adding one domain and two subdomains to your list each time and adding their spells to the list of those that you can cast.

The "those you can cast" only refers to the SLAs you get.

I'm with you on the Wild Arcana/Divine Wild Arcane point.
 
And I'm with Snowfire, because "OP or not OP" stops concerning me at the point where Mytic Ranks enter the fray.

Elder Evils, Y'all.
Space monsters, Mythic Fey assholes, Extradimensional horrors, and more.

It'd be highly unlikely we ever leave Lya to craft or research with both her bodies anyway.
I'm pretty sure almost everyone wants her to be with Viserys and help out.

And I like the fluff from Sage(?) Mythic Path.
Akaishic Record "connection" especially, but overall too.
 
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@DragonParadox
Does the City of Brass have enough trade with the Hells that we can expand our rumorposts to infernal affairs once we set up our spies there?

I'd really like to know what's going on down there and we are likely not welcome in Dis, so that's our best shot aside from leasing Mercenaries to Avernus.
 
Larder updated.

Also, the Night Hags' Heart Stones have an unfortunately quick expiration.

Heartstone (Su)
All night hags carry a heartstone—a special gemstone worth at least 1,800 gp that is worn as a periapt. A heartstone's magic is fueled by the hag's spirit and proximity—once separated from its owner (or upon the hag's death), a heartstone retains its magic for only 24 hours before becoming a nonmagical gem again. The heartstone instantly cures any disease contracted by the holder. In addition, a heartstone provides a +2 resistance bonus on all saving throws (this bonus is included in the statistics block above). A night hag that loses this charm can no longer use etherealness or soul bind until it finds a replacement gemstone.
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We'll need to sacrifice it quickly or use it in some other manner. Perhaps just try to use it for Day of Change or something?
 
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Artemis1992 said:
@DragonParadox
Does the City of Brass have enough trade with the Hells that we can expand our rumorposts to infernal affairs once we set up our spies there?

I'd really like to know what's going on down there and we are likely not welcome in Dis, so that's our best shot aside from leasing Mercenaries to Avernus.
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coming so far makes me proud of this threads achievements. A young viserys being a thug to make money all the way to finding out whether one can spy on demons and devils by planting spies.
 
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Duesal said:
Larder updated.

Also, the Night Hags's Heart Stones have an unfortunately quick expiration.



We'll need to sacrifice it quickly or use it in some other manner. Perhaps just try to use it for Day of Change or something?
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well, the trees haven't been grown on-screen yet...

Just tell DP that we'd like to use it now and count the necessary CL of items spent, out of tree-raisal-pile, I suppose.
 
I for one will continue to support @Snowfire efforts, since I'm sick to death of this min-max or GTFO attitude preventing us from taking actually flavourful options.

@Goldfish, @TalonofAnathrax I'm against wasting Lyas entire path on "re-roll this" and "bonus here". And if the only way to stop the nagging about this and that being sub-optimal is homebrewing something stronger, then so be it.
 
Azel said:
I for one will continue to support @Snowfire efforts, since I'm sick to death of this min-max or GTFO attitude preventing us from taking actually flavourful options.

@Goldfish, @TalonofAnathrax I'm against wasting Lyas entire path on "re-roll this" and "bonus here". And if the only way to stop the nagging about this and that being sub-optimal is homebrewing something stronger, then so be it.
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im just happy that we are getting mythic stuff at all. A year ago I thought dp was just going to limit viserys to 20 levels or something maybe some more levels after that. Never thought we'd get mythic at all.
 
I'll vote for Snowfire.

Not for any special reason or taking any particular stand. I just like the ideas and had several of my own to throw in there.

Same for things like PrCs. Functionally I expect any OPness to be parred down by TNE anyway so why do I have to "settle" for something default? Though several of the ones Talon suggested in the past were actually okay-ish and I wouldn't mind them, he also suggested some really meh-to-underwhelming ones.

I guess putting it one way, some of the Companions could do fine with a default PrC, but suggestions like "GET MORE BASE CLASS LEVELS!" or more likely "here's a PrC that has one ability I like and whatever fluff!" which doesn't fit the character perfectly can go die in a fire. The second because I am not a fan, the first because 3.5 base classes are boring and I hate boring.

TO MAKE IT CLEAR the class that someone who isn't even constantly posting like some people here that was used for Malarys is basically my level of expectation, and it was pretty much as simple and non-overpowered as you could expect at higher levels!

People just tend to get carried away because they expect more 'oomph' from Level 16-20 than they do from 5-10.
 
Duesal said:
Larder updated.

Also, the Night Hags's Heart Stones have an unfortunately quick expiration.



We'll need to sacrifice it quickly or use it in some other manner. Perhaps just try to use it for Day of Change or something?
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I'm not sure where you're getting that from* but we default to 3.5 right? The below is that, and emulating a race is DC25 so as long as you can reliably make that you can use the Heartstone infinitely. Hence why I said I want it for Glyra.

HEARTSTONE
All night hags carry a periapt known as a heartstone, which
instantly cures any disease contracted by the holder. In addition,
a heartstone provides a +2 resistance bonus on all saving throws
(this bonus is included in the statistics block). A night hag that
loses this charm can no longer use etherealness until it can manufacture
another (which takes one month). Creatures other than
the hag can benefit from the heartstone's powers, but the periapt
shatters after ten uses (any disease cured or saving throw affected
counts as a use) and it does not bestow etherealness to a bearer that
is not a night hag. If sold, an intact heartstone brings 1,800 gp.

This is a tremendous pick-up.

Edit:
*Okay I see.
@DragonParadox it'd be really nice if we could use the original 3.5 Night Hag
 
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@DragonParadox, do Viserys or Lya know how many more levels of Runecrafting there are? I know vaguely there are at least two more, up to Runecrafting V, but is there anything beyond that?

Also, do we have any idea if Runecrafting is a common skill among the Aboleths?
 
@Crake, the default ones Goldfish and I have been suggesting are absolutely not "settling" !
They include bonuses like "Persist all spells for free", "Counterspell as an immediate action without needing a dispel prepared" and "free, non-confusing Divination". Oh, and Mythic spells and Mythic crafting. These bonuses are not insignificant.

And Azel, I felt like I was picking flavorful options, actually. Maybe that's just me, but the Mythic bonuses in the last few sections definitely didn't feel like boring numbers!
Oh, and Mythic spells make every mythic tier feel cool and relevant, because each one is a sweet new ability.
 
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Also, @TalonofAnathrax, Lya has been going towards spontaneous casting for a long, long while. She got that feat that allows her to spontaneously cast from a few spell slots. Sage let's her spontaneously convert spells to other spells, similar to a cleric, at a cost.

So Wild Arcana is fitting perfectly as a progression to that and we should take it.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
@Crake, the default ones Goldfish and I have been suggesting are absolutely not "settling" !
They include bonuses like "Persist all spells for free", "Counterspell as an immediate action without needing a dispel prepared" and "free, non-confusing Divination". Oh, and Mythic spells and Mythic crafting. These bonuses are not insignificant.

And Azel, I felt like I was picking flavorful options, actually. Maybe that's just me, but the Mythic bonuses in the last few sections definitely didn't feel like boring numbers!
Oh, and Mythic spells make every mythic tier feel cool and relevant, because each one is a sweet new ability.
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"Persist spells for free" would fit on Dany, not Lya. For her, it's a random power-up.

Counterspell has no specific attachment to Lya either. That's also Dany, abusing Alter Fortune to that effect.

Flash of Insight does fit, though for the skill check effects, not because of Divination.

You are missing Beyond Morality, which is the natural progression of her Outer Lores.

I'm also very partial to Perfect Preparation, as ditching the need for a spellbook would feel like a great step of progression towards a deeper understanding of magic.
 
Azel said:
I for one will continue to support @Snowfire efforts, since I'm sick to death of this min-max or GTFO attitude preventing us from taking actually flavourful options.
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This is one of the reasons I'm doing this. I've flatly given up trying to make fluff arguments at level-ups, so Mythic is pretty much the only place I feel I can make it stick. I also really enjoy building specific things vs general, and I think the latest work on finalising Ascendant shows quite definitively that I listen to the mechanics crew if they tell me that something is hella OP.

TalonofAnathrax said:
And Azel, I felt like I was picking flavorful options, actually. Maybe that's just me, but the Mythic bonuses in the last few sections definitely didn't feel like boring numbers!
Oh, and Mythic spells make every mythic tier feel cool and relevant, because each one is a sweet new ability.
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I mean, without even getting into the validity of your choices, you're directly limited by the chassis you're constructing off of. And I'm...not. The point, I repeat, of Mythic is to delve into the founding legend of the character. This can involve taking deliberately suboptimal choices, which is why I actually support @Azel on his Elemental Bond (or whatever it's called) suggestion for 2nd Tier.

Bluntly, you can make vastly more flavourful choices if you work from a specific foundation instead of a general one. That's what Ascendant is about. That's what Sage is about. The not-so-subtle slant implying that all I'm trying to do is woo people with 'the OP' is not just wrong, but on the edge of actively insulting. My focus is on fluff. Always has been, and always will be. That you appear not to like that isn't a reason to imply things about my intentions which simply aren't true.
 
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