A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
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- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
- Location
- washington
I mean if it benefits us greatly I'd vote for us. But only if its very beneficial. We don't have a very good track record with dragon gods.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
We don't do slavery, and demanding that they serve us is that, we can demand that if they want to live in our borders, they must follow our laws, but demanding that they must swear fealty to us, is not a can of worm we want to open.Enduring Fealty of their line above that of their Lord Bahamut is the worst offer I'm willing totakeconsider, it works for Relath and Amrelath.
And if any of them become Clerics, then we can't demand fealty above their god, we don't do that for any of the other gods in our Empire.
And certainly not fealty of their whole line, Amrelath and Relath have given us their word that they will work for us, which mean we will hold them to that, but if any of Relaths children decide, that they want to leave our Empire, and make their own fortune, then that's their decision, we don't do forcing people to keep to the promises of their ancestors(promises of their positions are entirely different, the Lords in Westeros we will hold to their ancestors oaths, we will hold to those Oaths, on account of it being a promise of the Lord of their holdings, if they want to get out of their positions Oaths, then they must also give up that position, as the holder might change but the position is the same, and it's the position that swore, making it a responsibility of the job, which just mean if you don't want the responsibility, then you must quit the job.)
My point was that there are already an uncountable number of beings in that weightclass, the multiverse is big, adding Metallics is not sure to cause us problems.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Ting: "Ah. It appears this is a common occurrence."
Bloodraven: "Meeting half mummified men sustained by nothing but stubbornness and a few dozen unresolved grudges?"
Ting: "Wise old men ensconced far from civilization reaching out to bold young men eager for wisdom. I will have to tell my mentor that he has been cribbing from someone else's playbook."
Bloodraven: "...you're not wrong."
- Location
- France
:/
DP wanted a magical rogue (specifically, Arcane Trickster). That means minimum 2 classes + 1 PrC, sorry. Well, unless someone (TNE?) knows the proper cheese to get sneak attack without dips.
The builds I suggested had 1 main class, 1 dip, and 2 PrCs taken to various levels (depending on their total level).
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tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
They're 2 people at war, having a position require you to have killed one of the enemy's champions, isn't that unreasonable a requirement, and while that's the on paper requirement, it's Bahamut that grant it, so if you decide to murder that one red dragon, who has decided not to follow his instincts, and instead become a successful trader and craftdragon, then you probably aren't getting the class, and in fact quite likely will lose your Cleric powers, or even get a divine punishment.
The class description even says defeat in combat, which mean you can't just murder a dragon in it's sleep, and basic rules for Bahamut's clerics, near certainly take precedence over specific rules for this prestige class, which mean if you kill an Chromatic dragon, that you know has turned away from it's evil nature, then Bahamut aren't going to be at all pleased with you, and you are probably in the market for a new patron god, if you want to continue casting divine magic.
- Location
- Australia
There is not enough treasure in the planes, knowledge we can find ourselves and I will not trade the chance at one Dragon to guarantee Bahamut many, hence the answer I could give you.
Of course Bahamut could swear enduring fealty to our line, I would be perfectly happy with that.
- Location
- Germany
What if the same PrC would be offered by Burny? Would you still be trying to explain away the unfortunate implications of becoming a perfectly obedient stormtrooper that slays whatever his god tells him to?
- Location
- Australia
And yet it does not say a 'champion of tiamat' does it? You could even be specific to a "red dragon champion of tiamat", but he wasn't.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
He's a god, we don't demand fealty from our other gods, why is Bahamut different from them?
But I see I can't convince you, which is okay, this is ultimately a vote based system, I will try to convince some of the others, whether I succeed or fail we will see, but in the end you're just 1 vote, just because you want to impose much harder restrictions on Bahamut than any other gods, don't mean all voters will want to.
- Location
- Germany
We demanded (and got) full fealty in all but name from Syrax. Yss was even checking that she meant it for us.
Just as a note Viserys' interactions with Syrax came quite close to demanding fealty and the plans for a unified Imperial theology also move in that direction, not so much of commanding the gods but attempting to mold them.
Edit: Faceless'd
- Location
- Germany
We are also fostering heretical beliefs in the faiths of the Seven and Burny.
We are not in the business of indulging gods.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
No but that's not because Burny is evil, it's because Burny don't really believe in redemption the way Bahamut do, so while I'm sure Bahamut wouldn't approve of slaying a non-evil Chromatic, I'm not sure that if Burny had a PRC, that required you to kill something Other-touched, he wouldn't accept you killing Rina to get the class, whereas I'm quite sure, Bahamut wouldn't reward you with his PRC for killing Viserys.
Which don't mean I would condemn such a PRC of Burny's, I just wouldn't assume that you couldn't cheat your way into the class, as Burny's hate of Winter is less rational than Bahamut's hate of Chromatics(by which I mean Bahamut's attitude towards Chromatics, are repent or die, Burny's attitude towards Winter is you are irredeemable so die) We have had civil talks with a Cleric of Bahamut, which prove rather definitely, that Bahamut don't want to kill non-evil Chromatics, and why would he reward one of his Clerics, for killing someone he don't want dead?
- Location
- Australia
We don't allow all gods either, he's lucky to get this much so it is not "much harder restrictions" at all, it is medium restrictions when taking into account those we outright disallow.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
Syrax is a rather special case, as we are more or less reviving her, we don't demand fealty from Yss, the Merling King, or the Old gods, I don't see why we have to go right for demanding fealty instead of more reasonable concessions for Bahamut.
And sure we are trying to mold the gods, which is also something we could do with Bahamut if he joined us, I wouldn't ask to give him special considerations, I just don't think we should be a hundred times harsher in our demands to him ,than our demands to all our other gods.
As Azel says we aren't in the business of indulging gods, but we aren't in the business of immediately demanding they give us everything either.
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- Location
- Germany
1. We also had nice chats with clerics of Burny. See Benerro.
2. So you are basically assuming that Bahamuts hate boner is more reasonable then that of Burny, despite there being zero evidence for that.
3. Bahamut is, in all his incarnations, noted as uncompromising and zealous in his agenda. Said agenda includes the extermination of Evil species.
4. We never got a comment from Burny on Rina. For all we know, he would be peachy with her. The only one who objected to her was Mel and we managed to talk her around. And even then, she didn't like Rina, but didn't immediately attack.
- Location
- Australia
Others are less sure of Bahamut than you are.
That Cleric had no chance against us, not promoting suicide in one of your few followers left is something I would assume even Bahamut capable of.
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
Yss works in transactions and doesn't require fealty to work within boundaries of our Empire in a beneficial way.
Neither do Old Gods.
Merling King has an agenda, but it is confined to matters we ourselves have no problem with (I.e. Drowny and Illithids)
Syrax has so fucking many an agenda, that we had no choice but to bind her.
Had she been less dead, we would have ignored her altogether instead, or tried to fight, but promising to rezz her got us a peaceful solution.
Bahamut has an agenda.
It is not one we can easily control. Nor is it one we may agree with ic and ooc.
We would not be able to control his servants, because dragons.
And he, all the while, will get to further his plans.
fuck that
- Location
- United States
A hint at the new feat, @Crake?
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
1) I might be wrong about Burny, in which case I would give any such PRC of his, the same benefit of the doubt I give Bahamut's.
2) We have had in story evidence, that Bahamut's hateboner don't extend to non-evil Chromatics, Burny is still inconclusive, and I must admit I assumed Mel's initial reaction, to be what Burny would want, I might have been overly hasty in my judgement there, which don't change my judgement of Bahamut, it just mean I have to apologize for misjudging Burny.
3) We have seen evidence in quest, that Bahamut are okay with and in fact encourage evil dragons to change, what with the fact that his Cleric in the Opaline Vault, was very helpful in answering our questions, and selling us that resurrection scroll.
4) Which is a good argument that I should wait with judging Burny so harshly, not that I should judge Bahamut more harshly.
Attacking us would have been suicide, refusing to help us would not, the fact that he choose to help us, tell me that he was at least not hostile to us.
If he was looking to be worshipped in our empire, then we would have to look over his tenets, and decide if they are beneficial for the empire, but that's not what I'm proposing, I'm simply proposing trading him a few Metallic eggs for a large amount of favor, basically making him a foreign ally that owes us, the deal could involve restrictions on how he may operate in our lands, as well as demands, that any followers of his that settled in our land swore fealty, but it's too much to ask, that he not just follow our rule in our empire, but also make all his assets not in our empire beholden to us.
Law follow or land flee they say, by that measure we should demand that he follow our laws while in our lands, but not that he follow them while in places we don't rule.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
I do have a build in mind, yes.
- Location
- Australia
I don't think "benefit of the doubt" means what you think it means.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Out of everyone we've known to be active on the Prime Material, including even less than kindly (if not malicious) Gods, who's likely servants and even Aspect has avoided even minor contact with those even vaguely associated with us?
Think about it.
Either Big B knows he's in the dog house with us over Dany, or he's an asshole who will turn his nose down at cooperating against a shared primary antagonist.
Edit: Or worse, he's an overgrown manchild distracted by the shiny and chasing after every wrongdoer in front of him no matter the scale. My personal favorite theory is he suffers from Superman Syndrome and doesn't make enough distinction between who to stop and save.
Think about it.
Either Big B knows he's in the dog house with us over Dany, or he's an asshole who will turn his nose down at cooperating against a shared primary antagonist.
Edit: Or worse, he's an overgrown manchild distracted by the shiny and chasing after every wrongdoer in front of him no matter the scale. My personal favorite theory is he suffers from Superman Syndrome and doesn't make enough distinction between who to stop and save.
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