I mean, the 3.5's monk problem is at mid-high levels.

It's a highly MAD class (STR and CON as a frontliner, WIS for special abilities and DEX for an unarmored class), but if you have the stats for it, it's great at low levels. You just have to get something else to do at the higher ones, or be smart and stack your base unarmed damage so high it doesn't really matter.

The first two levels in special are fantastic, you get two bonus feats, all good saves, decent number of skill points and HP, WIS to AC, unarmed strike, Evasion and Flurry. And hey, Stunning Fist and Combat Reflexes are very good feats, and you can ACF that into a lot of other neat stuff.
 
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At that point he could still probably murder an adult dragon single handedly.
Anything with level 20 WBL could murder an adult Dragon ;) For one thing, there are rules to hire a Dragon and it's stupidly cheap, considering. So the commoner could buy Diplomancer items, hire a bigger Dragon, and still make a profit from the hoard. RAW is stupid.
Especially if custom items are allowed.

My theory: the lv20 Commoner was a Gold Dragon's familiar.
 
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What kind of backstory would a level 20 commoner even have?

How would they get their.
Being the only surviving peasant levy out of hundreds of thousands, when their idiot king decided to invade another plane, they got no training and no magic potential, so they didn't manage to class up at all, but they kept surviving as the chaff got repeatedly decimated, which gave them a lot of EXP.

Or maybe they are just a farmer who got immortality somehow, and then spent thousands of years farming, thereby leveling up though training, that's the slow way, but if you have forever, then you can still reach high levels.
Being the pack mule of very reckless PCs.
That's a possibility too, though only if the PCs refused to let him retire.
 
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I mean, the 3.5's monk problem is at mid-high levels.

It's a highly MAD class (STR and CON as a frontliner, WIS for special abilities and DEX for an unarmored class), but if you have the stats for it, it's great at low levels. You just have to get something else to do at the higher ones, or be smart and stack your base unarmed damage so high it doesn't really matter.

The first two levels in special are fantastic, you get two bonus feats, all good saves, decent number of skill points and HP, WIS to AC, unarmed strike, Evasion and Flurry. And hey, Stunning Fist and Combat Reflexes are very good feats, and you can ACF that into a lot of other neat stuff.
The reason why I've made that multiclassing statement is that when you mentioned doing a short dip into Monk might be worth it, I was pondering if it would be viable to make a Fighter that dips Paladin 2 and Monk 2. Dump STR and INT to free up attribute points, take Finesse, then that DEX based Power Attack from Pathfinder.

Edit: Or go Warblade 2 / Paladin 2 / Monk 2, dump all physical attributes in favor of mentals, then be a true warrior philosopher.
 
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Anything with level 20 WBL could murder an adult Dragon ;) For one thing, there are rules to hire a Dragon and it's stupidly cheap, considering. So the commoner could buy Diplomancer items, hire a bigger Dragon, and still make a profit from the hoard. RAW is stupid.
Especially if custom items are allowed.

My theory: the lv20 Commoner was a Gold Dragon's familiar.
I doubt it, familiars are linked to their master, and a link to a dragon tend to lead to sorcerous potential, a Gold dragon's familiar that began to level up, would be unlikely to stay a commoner for long, and that's without the fact, that the Gold Dragon would ensure their familiar got training, which mean even if they were non-combat, they should gain another NPC class, as commoner is the class for uneducated often illiterate peasants, a non-combat human familiar of a Gold Dragon, would in all likelihood gain a scholar or administrator class, if they didn't manage to awaken some sort of magic, from their connection to their master.
 
A 20th level commoner? He must have taken Vow of Poverty and Peace!

An honourable thing to do. You can't really fight as equals with a monk of all things.

Monks are a shitty class right? I try to be knowledgeable in D&D but I'm not.
At lvl 18 a wizard can choose to call down meteors, stop time and create demi planes. At 18 a monk gets feather fall.. while close to a wall.

Though I always wanted to play a Binder-Monk..
 
A 20th level commoner? He must have taken Vow of Poverty and Peace!
Nah he just never managed to find a better class, if you dump 10 million peasants in a very hostile wilderness, most will die, some will find power and gain a better class, and some will survive but not find any hidden talents, forcing them to just advance in commoner, the 20th level commoner is a superb farmer, and a good fighter with a pitchfork, but he's not a professional warrior, and he has no idea how to do any non-menial jobs, he's however stubborn enough, that he can and will maintenance a farm, even in a jungle where the average animal is CR8, and it regularly get attacked by up to CR16 creatures.
 
A 20th level commoner? He must have taken Vow of Poverty and Peace!


At lvl 18 a wizard can choose to call down meteors, stop time and create demi planes. At 18 a monk gets feather fall.. while close to a wall.

Though I always wanted to play a Binder-Monk..

I think he meant to say if you try to beat a Monk at his own game while not being a Monk, you're in for a bad time.

If however you try to beat him at your own game, the Monk is in for a horrible time.
 
Nah he just never managed to find a better class, if you dump 10 million peasants in a very hostile wilderness, most will die, some will find power and gain a better class, and some will survive but not find any hidden talents, forcing them to just advance in commoner, the 20th level commoner is a superb farmer, and a good fighter with a pitchfork, but he's not a professional warrior, and he has no idea how to do any non-menial jobs, he's however stubborn enough, that he can and will maintenance a farm, even in a jungle where the average animal is CR8, and it regularly get attacked by up to CR16 creatures.
"I was a farmer."

"So?"

"In Sigil!"
 
Part MMDCXLVIII: Under the Serpent's Wings
Under the Serpent's Wings

Twentieth Day of the Eighth Month 293 AC

Stone rises into a simple plinth under Zathir's gaze that he may rest upon it as you assemble your questions. Where does one begin asking questions of what might, from a certain perspective, be among the eldest things in all existence? You do not have long to ponder the matter for Lya decides upon the simplest answer: 'the beginning'.

"What do you remember of how you came of be as Jazirian? What was your nature, your deeds?" she asks, parchment and golden stylus servitor in hand. Unlike you Lya had never gotten into the habit of having her arcane assistant take dictation, claiming that writing helps her think.

"Much of what I was had been was taken from me long ere you found me on that accursed ship," the feathered serpent replies. There is no regret in his gaze, no echo of pain in his words, only a solemn acceptance. "There I shed my sorrows and with them the memories of treachery, yet I remember remembering if such a twisting of your tongue is permitted." You are not quite sure how a serpent can give the impression of smiling with a tilt of the head, but Zathir is doing just that. "Him Who I Was would have recalled a world undarkened, before the Pit opened and spilling its foulness into the other realms. He was the Craftsmen and Asmodeus the General. War consumed him... you know of what I speak, do you not? You have seen it in the eyes of those who took up arms under his banner."

Only now faced with this question does it occur to you that Zathir might have resented the presence of devils in Sorcerer's Deep, though fortunately he gives no sign of it. If anything he seems hopeful of their fate. "Asmodeus desired that all that was would be turned towards the First War, that every soul, every thinking being be naught but a wheel in some greater mechanism and in so doing be freed of the temptation of fiends. Betrayal there was then on one side and on the other a purpose split in twain, the sovereignty of souls writ into the pact. Thus was our fellowship broken, thus forged the enmity whose final bitter fruit you saw."

"What was your nature, then? How came you and Yss to be kin?" you ask, at once intrigued and frustrated by all that remains unsaid and unknown.

"We are all but children of the First Serpent Who Was Time," Zathir explains. "Or perhaps we are his heads torn free, that we may act at last upon His sluggish coils. Jazirian found the most joy in the teaching of young souls and through their unclouded gazes learning of the world in turn. Of Him were most beloved artists and thinkers, those who would bring new things into the world, be they some clever mechanism, a song undrempt, a poem or tale yet unspoken."

Zathir Domains Discovered: Liberation and Creation

"I do not ask this lightly, nor do I demand an answer if it is too painful to speak of, but how came you to be imprisoned by devils and are there any others whom we might free?" you ask carefully.

"Jazirian was given no companionship lest it bring Him solace, so there I cannot help you," the godling answers your last question first. "As to the manner by which He was captured, the gates broke and the spheres tumbled, much that was bright was lost and forgotten and only the legions of Hell remained to guard the gates of paradise against ravening demons. They took their payment in flesh and torment as ever they do."

The Disharmony of the Spheres... It always comes back to that, the calamity that left your world besieged by such darkness, yet still the root of it escapes you. "How did that came to be?" you ask at once, hoping that this time you would get your answer.

"The Void looked out upon the World of Form and where its gaze fell Shadows gathered, that is all that I recall," Zathir answers with a sigh.

"Are there any allies you can call, any friends whom we might find?" Dany asks, obviously seeking to turn his mind to happier things.

"A few, yes, my mind have been oft upon them of late..." So saying Zathir twists in place that three scales fall upon the hard stone floor, each shining faintly a different color: cobalt blue, dark ruby red, and the last clear silver. "Only three of the Children of Jazirian's thoughts endure, all slumbering the ages away."

As you pick up the scales you realize each of them is pushing ever so slightly in different directions, like loadstones drawn to iron. One points west, the second south... and the third just seems to point up.

Gained Scales of the Winged Serpent (Directions to the last three Coatls in existence)


When you point to the map for Zathir to mark with any places of interest, either of those containing great evils to battle or potential friends and lore he shakes his head. "The world is changed... more changed than I perhaps. I do not remember these seas, these mountains... there..." to your surprise be points directly at the location of Casterly Rock.

"What is there?" you ask intrigued and wary all at once.

"There upon the hill by the sea Jazirian taught men to delve into the earth for gems and bright gold that they may fashion things of beauty from them. Perhaps the altar might have survived, guarded by the deep earth," he states.

Discovered possible shrine of Jazirian beneath Casterly Rock

Reminded of your last journey to Armun Kelisk you tell him of the shrine you had found there and thus discover that it had once a seat of healing for the body and mind, able to lift even the burdens of an immortal's existence should they truly wish to be free of them. Zathir does not seem saddened to see it pass into Yss' keeping, and indeed from the look he gives to still silent pool you suspect he has just set some plan in motion with his 'elder brother'.

Next you ask by what manner you may gain his favor to which the godling looks at you bewildered for a long moment: "You already have many, many times over, far beyond my ability to repay in so weakened a state. All that brings new thoughts and makings, things of joy and beauty conceived in the hand or conjured in the mind has my favor. "

Deeds that gain the favor of Zathir: Advancements in technology, art, and trade, the thwarting of powerful devils

Divine Favor with Zathir: 3,000


The revelation is as shocking as anything you have heard today. You had expected... well you have expected trade like Yss and the Old Gods offer, perhaps less overt and bloody, but still clear bargaining. Instead you find yourself before a god whose favor may be measured by his disposition towards you and whose wishes align with what you might have done in any case.

True Zathir prefers that mortals find their own solutions to their problems when possible rather than being utterly beholden to gifts from on high, but he is certainly game to help so long as you are still creating things undreamt.

What do you ask of Zathir?

[] Help with creating a primary education plan (Cost 300 Favor)

[] Help with Ritual Crafting (Cost 100 Favor/Ritual)
-[] Write in

[] Aid in one battle (Cost 500 Favor)

[] Write in


OOC: Just to be clear if you ever hit 0 favor that does not mean Zathir is suddenly going to be indifferent to you or anything, he will still be deeply grateful to you and interested in the health and well-being of your subjects. He would simply refrain from offering anymore direct aid for fear of impinging on your creative spirit/free will.
 
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