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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Snowfire said:
This was…fucking hard to write. I hate hurting my characters, and Kathy really grew on me as things went on and the thread started to get invested in her. I've done my best to make Viserys fight for her here, and you can see that Harry was willing to try. But there's more to it than just what I'd shown. Some of this, most of what's left actually, will be covered in the next chapter. That will probably take a little longer, as I do have a PW vote to close and I owe it to my questers to get back to it at this point.

To be blunt, with what I'd put onto a page about Kathy, I'm unsure that the thread itself could have successfully turned her away from her own destruction due to how broken she was. Two years of time spent…twisting herself around points of time until she found what she deemed perfect – or as close as she could get – does things to you. Harry himself touches on this in this section. And the PTSD hardly helps. I'm aware that this result may…not play so well with the thread. I've tried my best to make it make sense, to show how and why it ended the way it did. It's a little like with Sandor, really. There was only so much that could be done.
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My plan for Kathy, would be turtling, then convincing her to reclass, and using a Miracle to do the reclassing, Tiamat proved that changing the nature of a persons magic is within the power of divine magic, so while the Miracle would probably cost EXP, Viserys should be able to reclass her into a D&D Sorcerer, and that would make her type of corruption kind of irrelevant, as she wouldn't be able to cast her time spell anymore.

Getting her to qualify for D&D sorcerer is easy, all Valyrians have at least some potential for sorcery, and DP has said you can choose Valyrian, when using a limited wish to direct a reincarnation.

And if that's not enough, Viserys is a red dragon, which mean easy access to red dragon blood, and sufficient exposure to dragons have been known to give sorcerous potential, something like getting a blood transfusion from a red dragon, would almost certainly count as sufficient exposure(yes I recognize they need compatible blood types, but making sure of that, shouldn't be beyond the power of Polymorph.
 
tarrangar said:
My plan for Kathy, would be turtling, then convincing her to reclass, and using a Miracle to do the reclassing, Tiamat proved that changing the nature of a persons magic is within the power of divine magic, so while the Miracle would probably cost EXP, Viserys should be able to reclass her into a D&D Sorcerer, and that would make her type of corruption kind of irrelevant, as she wouldn't be able to cast her time spell anymore.

Getting her to qualify for D&D sorcerer is easy, all Valyrians have at least some potential for sorcery, and DP has said you can choose Valyrian, when using a limited wish to direct a reincarnation.

And if that's not enough, Viserys is a red dragon, which mean easy access to red dragon blood, and sufficient exposure to dragons have been known to give sorcerous potential, something like getting a blood transfusion from a red dragon, would almost certainly count as sufficient exposure(yes I recognize they need compatible blood types, but making sure of that, shouldn't be beyond the power of Polymorph.
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Sorry dude, snowfore talked about most of this already.

As well as hard ruling out the sorcery thing.
 
tarrangar said:
My plan for Kathy, would be turtling, then convincing her to reclass, and using a Miracle to do the reclassing, Tiamat proved that changing the nature of a persons magic is within the power of divine magic, so while the Miracle would probably cost EXP, Viserys should be able to reclass her into a D&D Sorcerer, and that would make her type of corruption kind of irrelevant, as she wouldn't be able to cast her time spell anymore.

Getting her to qualify for D&D sorcerer is easy, all Valyrians have at least some potential for sorcery, and DP has said you can choose Valyrian, when using a limited wish to direct a reincarnation.

And if that's not enough, Viserys is a red dragon, which mean easy access to red dragon blood, and sufficient exposure to dragons have been known to give sorcerous potential, something like getting a blood transfusion from a red dragon, would almost certainly count as sufficient exposure(yes I recognize they need compatible blood types, but making sure of that, shouldn't be beyond the power of Polymorph.
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Viserys promised not to break the laws and that means no transforming another.
 
@DragonParadox, what's your opinion on my proposal to make a (preferably non-sentient) god? Possible or not at all? Would the stuff we are expecting from Bloodraven help to refine the idea?
 
Azel said:
@DragonParadox, what's your opinion on my proposal to make a (preferably non-sentient) god? Possible or not at all? Would the stuff we are expecting from Bloodraven help to refine the idea?
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*rolls knowledge religion/planes for multiple characters*

The idea itself sounds quite plausible, but the trouble with keeping it completely non sentient is you are going to have to figure out how to keep various unsavory powers from surreptitiously tapping if for power like metaphysical mosquitoes. Maybe some sort of combination of wards and making bargains with other friendly gods to guard its boundaries
 
DragonParadox said:
Personally I find this resolution good for the narrative, not pleasant to read but a story can't be all triumphs if it is to keep one engaged and the way the failure happened here makes sense. That said I do think Viserys might try to miracle resurrect her in order to try to get to her again.
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Why would he need to resurrect her to try again? Speak with Soul is a thing, so he can always just call her soul back for a chat, and then resurrect her only after convincing her.
Snowfire said:
Viserys made a promise not to break the Laws whilst going through this. Viserys, you might remember, is Lawful Neutral. He keeps his word. So, for example, this point?
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Snowfire said:
Changing the form of another. Not gonna happen.
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That ain't exactly how we typically play Viserys, yes promises are important, but we don't typically put a technical foul above saving a life, Amber Sarcophagus isn't changing someone's form, it's trapping them in suspended animation, it's the same for smoky confinement, the spell don't change your form in any permanent way, the moment the bottle is broken you're yourself again, then there's the fact Kathy aren't exactly that well protected against Viserys magic, a simple sleeping spell, would in all likelihood have let Viserys capture her.
 
zxzx24 said:
Why'd we switch to non sentient? Everybody got cold feet all of a sudden?
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The core of my idea is to have a big old barrel of divine power we can tap into. The less opinions it has the better.
DragonParadox said:
*rolls knowledge religion/planes for multiple characters*

The idea itself sounds quite plausible, but the trouble with keeping it completely non sentient is you are going to have to figure out how to keep various unsavory powers from surreptitiously tapping if for power like metaphysical mosquitoes. Maybe some sort of combination of wards and making bargains with other friendly gods to guard its boundaries
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Hm... what if we install warded storage tanks to keep the power bound instead of having it float around in the elsewhere?

That would also include an overflow valve directed to our pantheon to prevent overloading.
 
tarrangar said:
That ain't exactly how we typically play Viserys, yes promises are important, but we don't typically put a technical foul above saving a life, Amber Sarcophagus isn't changing someone's form, it's trapping them in suspended animation, it's the same for smoky confinement, the spell don't change your form in any permanent way, the moment the bottle is broken you're yourself again, then there's the fact Kathy aren't exactly that well protected against Viserys magic, a simple sleeping spell, would in all likelihood have let Viserys capture her.
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It isn't about a technical foul, it's about his ultimate goals. her life is not worth breaking with the Council which could be the end of Viserys' plans for reform. Ultimately it comes down to whether Viserys thinks the Council will take an amber sarcophagus or smoky confinement as breaking the Laws. If this were happening in the thread I would put it to a vote since both choices would be perfectly IC.
 
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Azel said:
The core of my idea is to have a big old barrel of divine power we can tap into. The less opinions it has the better.

Hm... what if we install warded storage tanks to keep the power bound instead of having it float around in the elsewhere?

That would also include an overflow valve directed to our pantheon to prevent overloading.
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The 'tank' would be the wards I mentioned, but ultimately wards are non-sentinet too, they can't adapt to new strategies of bypassing them. You would need guards/watchers supplementing it.
 
DragonParadox said:
*rolls knowledge religion/planes for multiple characters*

The idea itself sounds quite plausible, but the trouble with keeping it completely non sentient is you are going to have to figure out how to keep various unsavory powers from surreptitiously tapping if for power like metaphysical mosquitoes. Maybe some sort of combination of wards and making bargains with other friendly gods to guard its boundaries
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And then theres anthropomorphism...

Snowfire said:
Until she catches her train. At which point TWG says no.
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My body is ready.

Azel said:
The core of my idea is to have a big old barrel of divine power we can tap into. The less opinions it has the better.

Hm... what if we install warded storage tanks to keep the power bound instead of having it float around in the elsewhere?

That would also include an overflow valve directed to our pantheon to prevent overloading.
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This should not require you to build a god. Simply binding up divine power into an object shouldn't be that complicated.

Artifacts do that fairly well.
 
zxzx24 said:
This should not require you to build a god. Simply binding up divine power into an object shouldn't be that complicated.

Artifacts do that fairly well.
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No, the god part is important for the actual energy gathering. Sympathetic acts. Get a few bits of divine power every time someone pays his taxes or shows up for work at a government office.

Person: "What's your job?"
Person 2: "Well, I work for the Imperium."
Pseudo-God: *slurp*
 
Azel said:
No, the god part is important for the actual energy gathering. Sympathetic acts. Get a few bits of divine power every time someone pays his taxes or shows up for work at a government office.

Person: "What's your job?"
Person 2: "Well, I work for the Imperium."
Pseudo-God: *slurp*
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Mmmmmm.

:thonk:

Nah, maybe later. Good night everybody!
 
Snowfire said:
Changing the form of another. Not gonna happen.
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Encasing the form of another, that is so absurdly different I can only assume you misread.
Snowfire said:
He's not needed AMF before now at all. He went for it as a 'Stop' button for her chronomancy, and to prevent a death curse being levelled. The way in which AMF functions on DF practitioners is that it creates skintight Circles around them whilst they're inside it. They can still use magic on themselves, at that point, but they can't project or draw on energy at all.

Viserys didn't know this because it's literally never come up before and his research has been focused on very different avenues. First off on getting home, then on the nature of the Winter Mantles.
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But he has experienced magic working slightly differently and he is essentially in a full time combat situation as he has been separated from all he knows as an attack. It seems crazy to me that he wouldn't make sure his emergency buttons work.
Snowfire said:
Why would Viserys expend the level of social action that you're suggesting on someone that from his perspective didn't need it? He went into this expecting "Warlock". Previously those have either required only a moderate amount of his social capacity, or none at all because the solution is death.
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Good practice basically, see above.
 
DragonParadox said:
*rolls knowledge religion/planes for multiple characters*

The idea itself sounds quite plausible, but the trouble with keeping it completely non sentient is you are going to have to figure out how to keep various unsavory powers from surreptitiously tapping if for power like metaphysical mosquitoes. Maybe some sort of combination of wards and making bargains with other friendly gods to guard its boundaries
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So the previously discussed created pantheon with protection of the PrayerPond as a central facet would maybe work?
 
Snowfire said:
Ok, Talon? I respect you, I do. But to put it bluntly, it feels like you're telling me to expend a thousand words more at least on getting to just exactly the same place. Viserys in this is also level 18, not 20, and came into the DF world having burned pretty much all of his consumables. Yes, that leaves him with other gear, but assuming that he has the benefit of a perfect gear set is more than simply questionable.
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I'm not asking you for thousands of words. I'm providing C&C, suggesting that you add in a sentence or two. This is Harry PoV, so he couldn't see the details of what Viserys is doing. No, all Harry would see is a bunch of spells being cast stupidly fast. Seriously, Viserys basically never sticks to casting one spell per round. We've been quickening spells forever, and now we have things like Arcane Spellsurge.

>Viserys not having a Runestaff or PoSK for the best Sorcerer attack spells in the game. :jackiechan:
Heck, I'd expect him to learn them soon! I'll certainly be pushing for it next level-up, now that we have basic defense spells.

Snowfire said:
Viserys made a promise not to break the Laws whilst going through this. Viserys, you might remember, is Lawful Neutral. He keeps his word. So, for example, this point?
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Good point. Here's a quick suggested battle plan that doesn't change the outcome of the fight at all, that doesn't involve chronomancy or form-changing, and that can all be dispelled in a single spell.
Viserys casts Greater Arcane Fusion for Black Tentacles and Animate Object (animate something to grapple her). As a swift action, he activates his Belt of Battle for another standard action. As a standard action, he casts Greater Arcane Fusion for Dimensional Anchor and Telekinesis (to grapple her). She could struggle for a moment, beat the grapples (with magic?), dispel all this and the fight could end as normal. Well, Viserys could cast another spell right before his AMF (Quickened Elemental Darts targeting her gear? Quickened Grease again? Quickened Gust of Wind?) if he really wanted to.

Now an optimal attack sequence would involve Time Stop (perhaps through Mythic Power if he didn't learn it), but he isn't using Chronomancy like Celerity or Time Stop.

And what if he doesn't have Greater Arcane Fusion for some reason, and is unwilling to use mythic power to cast it?
Viserys casts Bloodwish to copy Arcane Fusion for Black Tentacles and Grease (or maybe Dispel Ward). As a swift action, he activates his Belt of Battle for another standard action. As a standard action, he casts Bloodwish for Arcane Fusion again, casting Great Thunderclap and Wall of Smoke around her (it nauseates). This strategy requires more spells that aren't explicitly on his spell his (PoSK? Runestaffs? Mythic charges spent like water?) and assumes that he wouldn't have the best sorcerer attack spell around, so IMO it's not the best.

I was imagining this as an extra sentence or two, a lightning-fast exchange of spells failing against her. Not as a whole long battle that would require thousands of words!
But Viserys quickens low-level spells and uses other action economy cheats so systematically that it feels weird to see him decide not to do so now of all days.

Snowfire said:
Why would Viserys expend the level of social action that you're suggesting on someone that from his perspective didn't need it? He went into this expecting "Warlock". Previously those have either required only a moderate amount of his social capacity, or none at all because the solution is death.

He threw a bunch at her right at the end, and it hit hard, but at that point she was already spiraling and with how her psyche is built up around things, the circumstantial modifiers would have been utterly vicious. Like, similar skills checks to inducing Melisandre's crisi of faith needed.
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> Viserys not going full social to save a maiden in distress. :p

I was assuming that he'd be trying his utter best to Diplomance her without actually using overt magic or Enchantment, but failed in the face of the huge modifiers imposed by her madness/Black Magic mental weirdness. Am I wrong?
 
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Azel said:
The core of my idea is to have a big old barrel of divine power we can tap into. The less opinions it has the better.

Hm... what if we install warded storage tanks to keep the power bound instead of having it float around in the elsewhere?

That would also include an overflow valve directed to our pantheon to prevent overloading.
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Though if it does gain salience what would you plan of course teach it for the better of the imperium. But not a slave how would you even make it not a slave if your just drinking out of its sweet sweet g8ant energy field through a skull?
 
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