It seems pretty IC to try to resolve this peacefully. Going full homicidal in a split second seems pretty... unnecessary. For all we know Mel is just having another miscommunication of intent based on being misinformed by appearing here.
 
@Goldfish
Do you want to try making a more violent option?
[x] Goldfish

It's less that and more who Viserys is. He's by nature a diplomatic person and IC she has done no harm to anyone that we know of so to go on a raving murder rampage would be OOC at best.
She's dangerous as hell, she considered attacking our companions while they were weakened from fighting the undead, she's too close to the Dragon Orb...

Because in the event that we can actually secure the 100% loyalty to us that both @Azel and @Snowfire have stated is their goal here -- to the point where it's either that or we kill Melisandre with no middle ground -- then I can swallow my urge for murder and grudgingly use the powerful PC.
Eh, I don't think that outcome is even possible.
I don't think getting anything better than her being an ally within Burny's church is an option.
Choosing between her god and the guy she met today will never end up with us winning over the fanatic.
 
It seems pretty IC to try to resolve this peacefully. Going full homicidal in a split second seems pretty... unnecessary. For all we know Mel is just having another miscommunication of intent based on being misinformed by appearing here.
I agree that it's IC to try diplomacy first.

That said, I don't think the location of her appearance is a miscommunication of intent. I fully expect her to go "I just have to use the Orb to enslave you to R'hllor's will since you have strayed from the true path" if she doesn't get her way. And I expect R'hllor to give her full divine support in the process.
Eh, I don't think that outcome is even possible.
I don't think getting anything better than her being an ally within Burny's church is an option.
Choosing between her god and the guy she met today will never end up with us winning over the fanatic.
And that's why I'm looking forward to the Goldfish vote when it comes to that.
 
If the majority of the thread wants to kill Mel, why the hell are we not voting for it?

Seriously, I have seen the sentiment of wanting her dead very often by now, why are you all voting for the diplomatic option?
Is everyone convinced we are not enough?
I can't talk for the whole thread but my reasons are pretty simple. While I don't trust her and would prefer her dead at the moment, Viserys just met her and has no reason to consider her a mortal enemy. If this ends in a confrontation I will be happy about it, but to cause such confrontation would be a massive OOC moment for Viserys.

That and I also trust her to be a fanatic nutjob who will give us a reason to fed her blood to the trees.
 
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I agree that it's IC to try diplomacy first.

That said, I don't think the location of her appearance is a miscommunication of intent. I fully expect her to go "I just have to use the Orb to enslave you to R'hllor's will since you have strayed from the true path" if she doesn't get her way. And I expect R'hllor to give her full divine support in the process.

And that's why I'm looking forward to the Goldfish vote when it comes to that.

To be fair Viserys is not the only dragon around that he may be worrying about.
 
Let's talk religion first. If she bends and joins us then excellent. If she doesn't then there is plenty of fire to go around and her god isn't the only one with the ability.
 
[x] Goldfish

Even ignoreing what i know about her from "canon".

When ever she comes up, it just becomes very clear that she can´t be trusted at all.
We could make deals with her, but the moment her god says to backstab or enslave us she will do it without hesitation.
 
It would be hard to stand on the argument that Mel needed the orb primarily to deal with other dragons, when Viserys is actively being purported to be Azor Ahai, @DragonParadox.
 
To be fair Viserys is not the only dragon around that he may be worrying about.
Oh, poor Burny is afraid of dragons?
Bwaaah, have him cry me a river.

If we aren't using the Orb to control other dragons, specifically GC's drakes (I've been outshouted on every attempt to bring that usage up), then no one is.

And certainly not Burny.
 
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I don't want to give too much away but keep in mind there are ice dragons in the Lands of Always Winter.
And a red dragon orb works on them?
Quote: "The Orbs of Dragonkind: Each of these fabled orbs contains the essence and personality of an ancient dragon of a different variety (one for each of the major ten different chromatic and metallic dragons). The bearer of an Orb can dominate dragons of its particular variety within 500 feet (as dominate monster), the dragon being forced to make a DC 25 Will save to resist."
That's not true for this dragon orb?
 
People, I don't want her dead. A small number of people are raging, @egoo is doing his insane salt, but I'm happy with getting a good working relationship with her.
 
And a red dragon orb works on them?
Quote: "The Orbs of Dragonkind: Each of these fabled orbs contains the essence and personality of an ancient dragon of a different variety (one for each of the major ten different chromatic and metallic dragons). The bearer of an Orb can dominate dragons of its particular variety within 500 feet (as dominate monster), the dragon being forced to make a DC 25 Will save to resist."
That's not true for this dragon orb?

She might have been planing to alter it somehow. I'm just saying assuming that the orb was meant to be used on you is a good guess not a certainty.
 
People, I don't want her dead. A small number of people are raging, @egoo is doing his insane salt, but I'm happy with getting a good working relationship with her.

I want Mel.

But I can't actually give a constructive and objective reasoning for wanting it so, other than the fact that it is perfectly reasonable to try to be diplomatic about our approach of her.
 
She might have been planing to alter it somehow. I'm just saying assuming that the orb was meant to be used on you is a good guess not a certainty.
True, but if you sent one of your fanatic clerics to meet the red dragon sorcerer king at the exact location where there's a red dragon orb to be found, that isn't exactly subtle. She was sent now, not a month or year ago, not with an army, but to meet our companions and tasked to meet us.
 
People, I don't want her dead. A small number of people are raging, @egoo is doing his insane salt, but I'm happy with getting a good working relationship with her.
She is powerful as all fuck.
She has no other authority than Burny.
She's a manipulative, lying bitch, that is willing to do anything in order to succeed at what Burny requires of her.

But she is also prone to be blindsided by things she didn't predict, and acting like a total count then - look no further than her intent to kill our weakened companions, and her not seeing Rina as a person before two literal crits from Rina.

All in all, it comes down to her likely never being loyal to us - and as such, being an unpredictable factor that will fuck over our plans at every turn, if Burny wants her to.

And he will.
Remember the little fact, that we are going to schism the fuck out of his faith.
IC too.

I am holding myself back only because it would be OOC for Viserys to jump to murderblendering.

She was here to get something that will behold (I.e. enslave) us to R'hlor in a way few other things can.
In my eyes, she dies for that.
 
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[X] Plan The Taming Of The Crazy
-[X] "You speak of masks and that makes me wonder..." Cut yourself off. "No, I think if we are to argue theology, we should not stand around in the desert. If I may?" Bloodwish: Fabricate some stone benches, arrayed in a circle. Enough of them that everyone can sit down while leaving a few places empty, allowing Mel and the group to be separated. Make a point of sitting with your group, but at the place closest to Mel. // What's coming might set her off something fierce, so we need to set up the stage. A stand-off in the desert can go off any second, but sitting around and talking raises her hesitation to fling spells at us. At the same time, we give her enough room to keep some degree of separation, but don't put her on point by seating her directly opposite of everyone. Viserys being close to her shows both interest and prevents the image of a king holding court against her. The whole "cutting yourself off"-thing is calculated. It makes this looks more spontaneous instead of a very calculated move.
-[X] "Masks you said. A curious way to put it, for while a mask might be used to hide one, it can also help to become many. Though that might be my years in Braavos talking, I can not in good conscience think that everything hidden is wicked. I have met my fair share of people donning many masks, seeking to aid and spread wisdom from behind them instead of donning them to poison and deceive just as often as the other way around." // This is a very important point to figure out if she can accept this. The root of my argumentation is that she is right, from a certain perspective, and wrong, from another perspective. The Red Faith can be interpreted to include other divine beings, even worthy of worship, but to convince her of this, we need to convince her of the value of facades.
-[X] "See, the Westerosi pray to the Seven Who are One, claiming that there is but one god with seven aspects in the shape of people and their roles. They too reject the notion of other gods, claiming them demons and false idols, much like you did just now. Malarys here, he used to pray to Balerion who has gone silent after the Doom. Nowadays he prays not to any god at all, but to Order itself. And this Order listens. Every day, he is granted power, not by any god, spirit or demon, but by this idea of order." // Stating some facts about the world. The Seven - Burny parallels are surprisingly deep when viewed through this filter and Malarys is well and truly an outlier. Her model of Burny as the One True God and Source Of All That's Good And Just doesn't really account for the possibility of concept clerics. I need this dissonance in her mind for the final blow.
-[X] "You said yourself that a mortal can't conceive the fullness of a gods mind. How could he? A god who forged all of this, not just this world, but the dance of the spheres, the ordering of the outer spheres, the river of souls connecting all of it, how should a single mind comprehend a mind so vast it could make all of this? But then again, it's hard to imagine even the vastness of the infinite planes in our minds. So what if there is one god responsible for all of this, but he is so vast that he needs those masks to be comprehensible to a mortal? Masks like the Smith or the Maiden, like the Father... like R'hllor." // Cue combat or deep faith crisis. Place your bets people.

The religious views expressed in this post are neither mine, nor supposed to be Viserys. They are just what a person taking stock in faith needs to hear.
 
I want Mel.

But I can't actually give a constructive and objective reasoning for wanting it so, other than the fact that it is perfectly reasonable to try to be diplomatic about our approach of her.

This. If it wasn't for my greed for powerful casters, my respect for Viserys character and the Snowfire/ Azel promise of "she works for us or dies" I would be all aboard moving the murder train. I'd prefer we fight her over the skies but if she works for us then I'm okay with not killing her. Plus a powerful priestess is always good for our budding empire.
 
I'm all for recruiting Melisandre, especially since she's proved considerably saner and more reasonable than anyone expected. I also think people are seriously overreacting to her trying to get the Orb. DP doing his best to defuse them without giving spoilers has only solidified that.
 
1. She is prone to be blindsided by things she didn't predict, and acting like a total count then - look no further than her intent to kill our weakened companions, and her not seeing Rina as a person before two literal crits from Rina.

2. She is powerful as all fuck.
She has no other authority than Burny.
She's a manipulative, lying bitch, that is willing to do anything in order to succeed at what Burny requires of her.

All in all, it comes down to her likely never being loyal to us - and as such, being an unpredictable factor that will fuck over our plans at every turn, if Burny wants her to.

And he will.
Remember the little fact, that we are going to schism the fuck out of his faith.
IC too.

3. She was here to get something that will behold (I.e. enslave) us to R'hlor in a way few other things can.
In my eyes, she dies for that.
1. Her failing to guess that we'd managed to steal Winter's power is perfectly normal. Even Bloodraven was amazed that we managed it!
2. The Shaitan aren't loyal to us and could turn on us at any moment if they wanted to for political reasons we can't even guess at, and yet we accept to negotiate with them! You're being unreasonable.
3. And if you think that being beholden to someone is the same thing as being a slave, then you're completely mad. How can you even function in everyday life if you can't tell the difference between slavery and owing someone a favor?

@DragonParadox, at the end of the day Melisandre is specifically waiting for Viserys next to one of the few artifacts that can actually manage to enslave him.

That goes beyond a mere guess that she's threatening us.
You're all so thin-skinned. We know that she was around for a while and didn't claim the Orb: this is posturing more than an actual murder attempt. We do the "negotiate from strength" thing all the time!
 
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