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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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MTB said:
??? Books or film? Because I don't remember (hah!) reading it in up to 'Dance of Dragons'.
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Well, Jon Arryn had a working relationship with him and trusted Stannis enough to let him in on the investigation. It's not clear what they were going to do, but when Jon Arryn suddenly fell ill and died Stannis realized how bad the situation was. He then took off for Dragonstone without any sort of explanation and began summoning mercenaries and training his levies.
 
DragonParadox said:
House Farman has even gone so far as to send an expedition to the lands beyond the Wall in search of arcane treasures or lore among the wildlings, which Bloodraven subtly guided with dreams and portents to help protect the Thenns against restless dead risen from their barrows to the call of Winter. "The Thenns hold much lore of the First Men which would be lost if the Magnar clings to his Vale into the teeth of winter. Now they have learned that southerners can be trusted, a lesson on which more can be built," he finishes.
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Gah, that could have been our quest for leveling the B-Party a bit, if we had been faster.
 
Huh.
I have an interesting question, @DragonParadox.

So, when a Darkenbeast is made, it requires an animal sacrifice to go along with it - a wolf, an ox, a pig, etc.
And a Darkenbeast takes upon some features of the animal that was used in it's creation.

So, what would happen, if we use a Valyrian Dragon as one such animal?

Would that Darkenbeast automatically gain draconic template, which won't be accounted by CR-limit?
 
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tarrangar said:
What would we do if this happened? It's one thing to destroy the Lannister name under Tywin, if Tyrion took his place and surrendered, it would suddenly be far less an easy decision.
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On a personal level, that's sort of correct, but on a Dynastic level it's seriously misguided and wrong.

We get to carry around both the sins and baggage of Aerys' reign, along with all the benefits of having a very clear and strong claim to the throne by blood and order of succession.

Them ousting Tywin before we can force terms on them doesn't mean terms won't be forced, only the metric in which they are levied adjusted.

No other Lord except perhaps one with "Lannister" in their name will think that they are owed clemency simply because they were cowards and turned on their liege lord in exchange for mercy. No one will speak against whatever punishment we relegate the House to on a dynastic level, especially if the attempt to do so was made crassly and transparently the moment we show intent to invade.

It would be trickier if they did it right now before the time is ripe and we didn't have the leverage of being able to enforce order and some measure of direct rule in any of the Seven Kingdoms using military law.

Tl;Dr Lolno Lannister as a Dynasty is effectively at an end. That doesn't mean there won't be able nobles of Lannister blood at the end, but their power, financial, military and magical, will be harshly curtailed.

No Casterly Rock, for example, which is one example of betraying Tywin to supplant a favored heir upon his seat does not actually measurably end in a desired outcome.
 
LonelyWolf999 said:
@Duesal - Here's an idea for Stannis, and by extent Fenly and Davos. We tell them everything. Everything.

I'm serious. We use our cred with him to call a private meeting only with people who explicitly know the extent of our relationship - i.e., Davos and Fenly. And then we tell them everything that's going with Westeros. We tell him about the Deep Ones, we tell them about the Others, we tell them about the Devils, Demons, and Daemons, and in detail. Like, we inform them what exactly they've been doing on the mortal world, who's been subverted, all the damage - everything. We tell them about the twincest, we tell them what the Faith's been up to, we tell about the Fey and we tell them about what the Lannisters have done - mention the brainwashing by Tywin in specific. We tell them that our deep cover agent Varys has been literally keeping Robert alive from his cuckolding wife's attempts to murder him because if he dies Westeros will explode. The reason we haven't invaded yet and fixed all this shit, is that all of this? Essos was worse. At least Westeros has factions like the Faith and Lannisters running around putting out fires, even if they're half the damn problem.

At the end, we take Stannis aside, and man-to-man tell him we won't hold it against him if he goes to Robert with all of what we've revealed ... but he should seriously consider what that would actually accomplish. Because we need at least a year to unfuck the situation across the Narrow Sea, and if all hell breaks loose in Westeros we won't be able to save it.
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You are aware of the canon plotline, right? Stannis absolutely will start a seemingly doomed conflict if he thinks it's the right thing to do/his duty.
 
LonelyWolf999 said:
To be fair, that was after Jon Arryn was poisoned, at which point Stannis presumably realized the situation was fucked.
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My point with that was that if we give him the full scope of the various otherworldly threats lurking in the dark, as well as how the Lannisters are sabotaging the Iron Throne (even going so far as to mess with the Wall), he's going to realize the situation is fucked. I think we've got a fair shot at convincing him that his duty is to save his people by bending the knee... to Viserys.
 
Telling Stannis everything before we're ready to act is a bad idea.

Telling Stannis as a shotgun wedding style ultimatum of "this is how everything is. I am allowing you to make an informed decision. If you went to Robert and told him everything this very moment, it would change nothing because the time for waiting is over. After this meeting is through, I am ready, whichever way you swing, and a forewarning will not help. But I am not here because I am afraid of facing you in the field, I am here because I respect you and think you'll make the right decision".

The only thing really working in our favor here, is that we instilled some cognitive dissonance in Stannis upon our parting by getting him to admit we have a duty towards Westeros to protect it from itself.

This is an extension of that. We are trying to protect our lawful subjects from war and madness.
 
Crake said:
On a personal level, that's sort of correct, but on a Dynastic level it's seriously misguided and wrong.

We get to carry around both the sins and baggage of Aerys' reign, along with all the benefits of having a very clear and strong claim to the throne by blood and order of succession.

Them ousting Tywin before we can force terms on them doesn't mean terms won't be forced, only the metric in which they are levied adjusted.

No other Lord except perhaps one with "Lannister" in their name will think that they are owed clemency simply because they were cowards and turned on their liege lord in exchange for mercy. No one will speak against whatever punishment we relegate the House to on a dynastic level, especially if the attempt to do so was made crassly and transparently the moment we show intent to invade.

It would be trickier if they did it right now before the time is ripe and we didn't have the leverage of being able to enforce order and some measure of direct rule in any of the Seven Kingdoms using military law.

Tl;Dr Lolno Lannister as a Dynasty is effectively at an end. That doesn't mean there won't be able nobles of Lannister blood at the end, but their power, financial, military and magical, will be harshly curtailed.

No Casterly Rock, for example, which is one example of betraying Tywin to supplant a favored heir upon his seat does not actually measurably end in a desired outcome.
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Well just know that if they actually join our side before we defeat them, I will vote for giving them generous terms, I like having the reputation, of even people we hate getting great terms, if they surrender without a fight.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
You are aware of the canon plotline, right? Stannis absolutely will start a seemingly doomed conflict if he thinks it's the right thing to do/his duty.
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That was in part due to a magic using seductress convincing him that he's the only chance Westeros has of surviving the apocalypse.

Like, imagine if a Lord Paramount had a mid level Viserys whispering in his ear that the world is going to shit, that said Lord Paramount is the rightful heir and here's evidence, and that he's the only chance the world has of not dying a horrific death.

We had the Sealord wrapped around our finger and he was willing to get into a trade war against another continent after we Diplowhammied him. Working on a target to specifically shape them to our will hasn't been outside of our means for quite some time.
 
tarrangar said:
Well just know that if they actually join our side before we defeat them, I will vote for giving them generous terms, I like having the reputation, of even people we hate getting great terms, if they surrender without a fight.
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Without a fight?

Fair.

I oppose it on every level possible, but fair.

As dust.
 
Walliseatscheese said:
That was in part due to a magic using seductress convincing him that he's the only chance Westeros has of surviving the apocalypse.

Like, imagine if a Lord Paramount had a mid level Viserys whispering in his ear that the world is going to shit, that said Lord Paramount is the rightful heir and here's evidence, and that he's the only chance the world has of not dying a horrific death.

We had the Sealord wrapped around our finger and he was willing to get into a trade war against another continent after we Diplowhammied him. Working on a target to specifically shape them to our will hasn't been outside of our means for quite some time.
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Works, but your example would be better with a 'Dany still working for Tiamat', to come closer to Melisande.
 
MTB said:
Works, but your example would be better with a 'Dany still working for Tiamat', to come closer to Melisande.
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Dany was working with Tiamat under protest while Melisande is a committed fanatic, and while her intimidation successes are many and fully justified, she herself hasn't done the same high tier manipulations that Viserys is geared for.

Viserys on the otherhand has an easy reference to manipulating the Head of State of a nation such that they would be willing to cause massive negatives to their country's well being, for a while at least.
 
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Walliseatscheese said:
Dany was working with Tiamat under protest while Melisande is a committed fanatic, and while her intimidation successes are many and fully justified, she herself hasn't done the same high tier manipulations that Viserys is geared for.

Viserys on the otherhand has an easy reference to manipulating the Head of State of a nation such that they would be willing to cause massive negatives to their country's well being, for a while at least.
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I meant a Dany working for Tiamat out of her own free will, approaching early twenties in age.
 
Walliseatscheese said:
That was in part due to a magic using seductress convincing him that he's the only chance Westeros has of surviving the apocalypse.
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To reiterate this point, Melisande in canon was capable of bringing people back to life (a fifth level spell at minimum) and using ritual sacrifices to make incorporeal assassins. Assuming she was level 9/10, that puts her on the level of Varys and Barristan the Bold for max skill ranks and Legend weight for the start of canon.

Manipulating the opposite of a social spec is entirely within her abilities, even assuming she never used anything like Charm Person.
 
Re Varys I highly suspect he was going to try and pull a The Fourteen/Fifthteen v2 double cross on both Tiamat and Mammon. Aka stealing divine power from one and using it to invalidate the obligations he has to the other

Also yeah, I agree in Canon that part of Stannis' motivation was someone telling for like the first time in his life he was important and wanted.
 
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egoo said:
Huh.
I have an interesting question, @DragonParadox.

So, when a Darkenbeast is made, it requires an animal sacrifice to go along with it - a wolf, an ox, a pig, etc.
And a Darkenbeast takes upon some features of the animal that was used in it's creation.

So, what would happen, if we use a Valyrian Dragon as one such animal?

Would that Darkenbeast automatically gain draconic template, which won't be accounted by CR-limit?
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It requires an animal.

A Valyrian dragon is not an animal, it's a dragon.
 
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