With Expanded Arcana, you get one spell of your highest spell level, or up to two in any other circle of magic.

Expanded arcana! YES! Thank you. My phone froze on the front page the other day :/

Anyway, we just need to know if it was necrotic skull bomb on its own, or if we got two lower spells. I know for a fact that we got the feat after fighting those demonkin in the cave when we did our first shopping trip in Molten Skies because that when we decided an aoe quick action negative level spell would have been just... Lovely. I wish we could have an option to expand all threadmarks :(.

@Azel, I have a suggestion, replace the day long cast plan b you have with "learn Touch of History via ancestral awakening, bloodwish 'imbue spell like ability' the spell into one of the magelings, and let them spend the full day staring at a collar."
 
Expanded arcana! YES! Thank you. My phone froze on the front page the other day :/

Anyway, we just need to know if it was necrotic skull bomb on its own, or if we got two lower spells. I know for a fact that we got the feat after fighting those demonkin in the cave when we did our first shopping trip in Molten Skies because that when we decided an aoe quick action negative level spell would have been just... Lovely. I wish we could have an option to expand all threadmarks :(.

@Azel, I have a suggestion, replace the day long cast plan b you have with "learn Touch of History via ancestral awakening, bloodwish 'imbue spell like ability' the spell into one of the magelings, and let them spend the full day staring at a collar."

We're trying to make them relish adventure, not dread being used as an up-jumped spellwand... like certain Tieflings.
 
I doubt there's a Lannister bold enough to set foot in our capital who isn't themselves Lanna or Gerion, and they would do it in secret rather than venture forth in the light of day.
 
I doubt there's a Lannister bold enough to set foot in our capital who isn't themselves Lanna or Gerion, and they would do it in secret rather than venture forth in the light of day.
Gerion might find the idea funny to boldly appear in his regular colours on our tourney.

Not like we'd capture a guest who really just wants to participate.

Laughing Lion ftw!
 
Gerion might find the idea funny to boldly appear in his regular colours on our tourney.

Not like we'd capture a guest who really just wants to participate.

Laughing Lion ftw!

In that vein, I am sure you will get a few people around here who would disagree with you based on instinctual fear alone.

But you're essentially correct. The only thing I loathe greatly more than knowing an enemy has gathered power and undermined us sight unseen is the idea of doing violence upon someone who comes under peace banner, implicit or otherwise.

Edit:

Also, if Gerion has heard about our tourney, chances are he did have a whimsical thought or two about sailing off to take part while taking refuge in audacity.

Unfortunately, Gerion is now a Lord with a wife and children, and he's noted that he never imagined he'd have either of those things at all, or he wouldn't have risked a trip into Valyria.
 
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Subconscious decision making on what spells you have is how I fluff the changes we make to our spell list. The changes that are an explicit feature of the sorcerer class. You can dislike and vote against it sure, but changing spell load out has always been a function from the start. I don't understand why it's a problem now and not before.

Trading out combat spells is one thing but Teleport is not something I feel is appropriate to do it with, I'm not the only one that feels that way and I'm not particularly in the mood to have a non-mechanics argument against mechanics until the vote.

I'd draw it at "dead of natural causes that were unpreventable by medicine or magical intervention."

Like, a kid that get's dragged off by a gigantic monster and eaten alive, that's something you fix, but a stillbirth is something you can't fix because it's dead to begin with.

I mean we're already drawing up plans for the eventual hurdles that will come from a society where death is not permanent(Inheritance, interest rates, that sort of thing), so the line basically already being drawn as we speak and it so far it seems to start at "it was never alive to begin with."

That is a lot of people, too many to save, too many to even know about so the question needs to be asked.

Who's dead children don't get raised? Is it as shallow as helping those you see when you know for sure and certain there are more out there dying every day? With knowledge like this can you waste your time and slots raising one child when you could be preventing the deaths of a score more?
Opportunity cost exists.
Adhoc vote count started by Deliste on Jan 24, 2019 at 1:50 AM, finished with 268881 posts and 14 votes.
 
Added my earlier suggestions below now that work's over, won't add any time requirement to the current plan but will give us a few additional avenues that are basically immune to any potential warding issues due to the oblique angle of attack.

[X] Finding the real Monster
-[X] Blood Wish Create Treasure Map on the lead creature with the intention of tracking it's origins by what it values, be that food, mates or a triangulation of multiple factors.
-[X] Blood Wish Discern Next of Kin with the intention of discovering any potential controlled breeding program, these things are owned by something or someone and they have enough to send them in numbers. Failing that it may at least discover where they were originally captured.
-[X] Take an hour to cast Touch of History on the collar and expend a point of Mythic power on it, thus boosting your CL to 21. Thus you can see what the creature was up to for last 21 days and hopefully find our where it came from and who might have been it's owner.
-[X] If that time-frame is too short, wait for a free day to try again, using that day for casting.
 
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Trading out combat spells is one thing but Teleport is not something I feel is appropriate to do it with, I'm not the only one that feels that way and I'm not particularly in the mood to have a non-mechanics argument against mechanics until the vote.
I'm not trying to argue or convince you, mearly learn why you feel like you do about this topic, so that I can convince you later. And if you happen to end up being chill with the idea of getting boots at the end of this, well, that's no loss ;). If however you feel that my actions are... dickish, then don't respond untill it comes up in a vote. I wouldn't in your place

From your post you seem to view combat and non-combat spells as differing in some way that reflects on whether it's cool to switch them or not. Or something. I'm really unsure why you feel this. For me it comes down to: boots are a Half price, any-caster-paradime-usable pages of spell knowledge, but only for teleport.

This is frustrating for me because my position looks self evident on why it's a good choice, and I am continually failing to understand your perspective. And I'm really trying. I know it's tied to thematic and long woven narratives and all the tasty things that turn bland numbers into story, or I think I know that.

I suppose I'm failing to see why there is a conflict here at all? Which, having been on the other one of that sentence, I know can send the other party into a quiet... fury, depending on the topic in question. So, I'm sorry for that at least <3

We could get a similar result if we were to buy a posk of whatever 5th level spell we'd be taking in place of teleport instead of course, (as an FYI, opening to a new spell in our grimwoire takes a move action, I like to think our bookmark is set to "True casting", so for that to equal out, the posk 5th level spell would have to be a pre-combat spell imo.)

Also, Viserys' subconscious would go for the half price option. No doubt in my mind ;)
 
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If however you feel that my actions are... dickish, then don't respond untill it comes up in a vote. I wouldn't in your place

Well now you've guilted me into response because I don't at all feel you are being dickish. Does that now make you a dick and so I can rest easy not responding? :p For the moment I'm not on a phone so I guess I will.

From your post you seem to view combat and non-combat spells as differing in some way that reflects on whether it's cool to switch them or not.

Not necessarily Combat v Non-Combat but there is a lot more overlap between combat spells than non-combat spells, so a swap has little to no thematic or narrative consequences, you traded one way to kill or incapacitate for another way to kill or incapacitate.

For me it comes down to: boots are a Half price, any-caster-paradime-usable pages of spell knowledge, but only for teleport.

This is frustrating for me because my position looks self evident on why it's a good choice, and I am continually failing to understand your perspective. And I'm really trying. I know it's tied to thematic and long woven narratives and all the tasty things that turn bland numbers into story, or I think I know that.

I view the boots in a similar way mechanically.

Yes it is a thematic concern, there are certain spells and effects that really should be inherent, particularly when you dive into the narrative of how and why people have certain spells outside of rote learning, not necessarily that impactful here but it's part of it I guess, you might remember the Pyrotechnics argument the thread had a while back.

I find it insane to put yourself in a position where you can be separated from magic of this type, as unlikely as it is (and let's not get into the assumption of success making everything pointless) if you are captured, stripped, sundered, disjunctioned etc you should not now be helpless to escape the situation, all well and good to no longer be able to freeze someone instead of burning them but to not be able to Teleport because someone stole your shoes :/

The only argument that holds any water for me is Greater Teleport being an inherent spell known but it isn't quite enough that we have that, it is in large part because it shares slots with high level combat spells and Bloodwish, the slots most likely to be expended if you were pushed to the limit, Versatile Spellcaster helps a little but 6th level slots are at a pretty big premium too with protective buffs and Heal, Greater Dispel magic and our utility Greater Shadow Enchantment. Any other argument presented so far entirely misses my point if not the point.

It's not what I would do if things were really life and death, it very much feels like a gamed decision.

We could get a similar result if we were to buy a posk of whatever 5th level spell we'd be taking in place of teleport instead of course, (as an FYI, opening to a new spell in our grimwoire takes a move action, I like to think our bookmark is set to "True casting", so for that to equal out, the posk 5th level spell would have to be a pre-combat spell imo.)

This I would prefer.

Edit: I really like the idea of our Grimoire being bookmarked to a particular spell, I wonder if DP would allow that to be the case.
 
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[X] Deliste

Sound additions.

In regards to the blood tentacles, how about this?
- adjust the casting time to take a full round action
- in return, the attack is rolled into the casting itself, effectively lowering action expenditure
- for balance, tentacles that don't hit are wasted abd can't be used to do more attacks in the following round
- fluff wise, the tentacles become an invisible force effect and if they connect, they suck the blood out of the victim

Basically a souped up Vampiric Touch.
 
[X] Deliste

Sound additions.

In regards to the blood tentacles, how about this?
- adjust the casting time to take a full round action
- in return, the attack is rolled into the casting itself, effectively lowering action expenditure
- for balance, tentacles that don't hit are wasted abd can't be used to do more attacks in the following round
- fluff wise, the tentacles become an invisible force effect and if they connect, they suck the blood out of the victim

Basically a souped up Vampiric Touch.

I don't know that there is an issue with the spell as is, if we need to refluff Goldfish's suggestion seems sound enough. I'm sure someone can improve on the below.

The caster turns a portion of their own blood into Valyrian Steel, one spiked chain per caster level bursting out of the caster's palm to burrow into their foes.
 
That is a lot of people, too many to save, too many to even know about so the question needs to be asked.

Who's dead children don't get raised? Is it as shallow as helping those you see when you know for sure and certain there are more out there dying every day? With knowledge like this can you waste your time and slots raising one child when you could be preventing the deaths of a score more?
Opportunity cost exists.

Easier enough to answer too. Everyone we possibly can under our dominion.

If you're not part of the Imperium then tough shit, death is death, but when you get under our banner you reap the benefits of our rule, and one such benefit is the knowledge of combating the permanence of death and the ability to learn how to preform said rituals.

Provided of course, that you've earned the trust of the state and the right to acquire said skills.

Like for example, say some kid gets eaten by some creature over in King's landing. Nothing we can do about it there because A. We wouldn't know about it, B. Said child is not under our protection by being part of the Imperium, and C. Their protection is the responsibility of the King who's fealty they are demanded AKA the fat fuck currently whoring it up while drinking himself stupid.

Once we conquer Westeros, then yes they are under our protection and as such it is our responsibility to do our utmost for them, but until then they are not.

As for your second point, spending our time raising the dead (or to be more accurate getting someone else to do it for us because we are a King and we need to learn how to fucking delegate) is not the same as failing to prevent deaths.

I'd like to think we're smart enough to do the math or properly schedule our time for such a hypothetical scenario.

Like we wouldn't waste our time raising 5 year old Tommy who was found eaten alive by giant rats while we know for a fact that the Squids are planning an assault on a town on the other half of our kingdom.

We'd get someone else to do that (provided we'd had such a person) and go deal with the more immediate threat.

Let's be real here, we've raised the dead before, our mother is proof of that fact, so saying that we can't or that its too costly is hypocritical.

That it's inefficient to do it ourselves is closer to the truth, which is why we shouldn't be doing it ourselves. We should have people who could do that for us. We don't (at least as far as I know we don't) so the choice currently falls on our shoulders, but we shouldn't dismiss it out of hand without at least properly considering the option.

If it costs too much time or resources then yes, the children will just have to remain dead and the families will have to settle for condolences, unless we ever get to the point where it doesn't in which case they shouldn't.
 
"Were not all the Knights of Westeros invited, from as far as White Harbor in the North, and even to those audacious talking birds spreading their invitations across half a dozen dockside taverns in Lannisport itself?"
And now let's all take a step back to admire the audacity of the power move we pulled there. We made a Westeros wide proclamation, easier then the Ursuper at that, and there is jack shit the likes of Tywin could do to stop us.

I'm pretty sure Tywin will have a rather constipated look for the coming weeks. Especially if he runs into Hoster for some reason, who will be made of smugness after this.
To her mind, the call of adventure in the City of Wonders wasn't at all about frittering away hours on games to begin with, no matter that they probably had more eyes on them from the King's fearsome and renowned Inquisition in the first place.
See, this line of thought is why the Inquisition has a public branch that is operating openly. Their reputation alone is already half their power, because the mere idea that there could be one of them watching is making people feel safer or more paranoid, depending on the side of the law they stand on.
 
If it costs too much time or resources then yes, the children will just have to remain dead and the families will have to settle for condolences, unless we ever get to the point where it doesn't in which case they shouldn't.

Basically I don't think we're there yet but a "guarantee to majority" would be an interesting social concession.


And now let's all take a step back to admire the audacity of the power move we pulled there. We made a Westeros wide proclamation, easier then the Ursuper at that, and there is jack shit the likes of Tywin could do to stop us.

I'm pretty sure Tywin will have a rather constipated look for the coming weeks. Especially if he runs into Hoster for some reason, who will be made of smugness after this.

The next truly outrageous step, and the evolution of what the tavern hopping plan turned into, we could take petition through our Ravens. We would not be able to take petition from opposing citizens as there is too much incentive to "recognise Robert's legitimacy" after an unfavourable decision, likely supernatural threats* and maybe a "the river burst" situation occasionally. Too much? War?

*Getting called in to deal with supernatural beings means we get recognised as the ruler by said beings, particularly when the people of the land have petitioned us. This is the kind of thing that almost make Fey bearable.
 
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I don't think the tentacles are optimal choice of weapon either.

If what I'm getting is tight, their attack bonus would be +27.
Which is quite decent.

But they would not have buffs, combat maneuvers, or sla-attacks going through them.
Which makes me doubt their capability of beating about 70% of AC's we'd encounter at our level. And that's if they roll well.

AC aside, well, they are a great choice of an attack. Would have a potential to do more damage that Viserys' own melee, in any case.
Few are times when we won't have sky-high AC to worry about, tho.
 
Basically I don't think we're there yet but a "guarantee to majority" would be an interesting social concession.




The next truly outrageous step, and the evolution of what the tavern hopping plan turned into, we could take petition through our Ravens. We would not be able to take petition from opposing citizens as there is too much incentive to "recognise Robert's legitimacy" after an unfavourable decision, likely supernatural threats* and maybe a "the river burst" situation occasionally. Too much? War?

*Getting called in to deal with supernatural beings means we get recognised as the ruler by said beings, particularly when the people of the land have petitioned us. This is the kind of thing that almost make Fey bearable.
That's something that would be much more impactful when it develops on it's own. I do hope we pick up enough rumours and tales to solve some problems in Westeros next turn. Repeating our success with Manderly would be great.

I also hope we learn more about what's going on in the Westerlands. We still have no idea what happened to those lords who complained to Tywin after we wrecked Lannisport.
 
Hey, @Duesal, have we had CotF take a peek at Lyre of Building at work?

I kinda remember us wanting to, because apparently we are pumping the power of their "Song" wit them.

I wonder if we can have one Lyre given to them to tinker later, to see what they could do with it.
 
[X] Deliste

Sound additions.

In regards to the blood tentacles, how about this?
- adjust the casting time to take a full round action
- in return, the attack is rolled into the casting itself, effectively lowering action expenditure
- for balance, tentacles that don't hit are wasted abd can't be used to do more attacks in the following round
- fluff wise, the tentacles become an invisible force effect and if they connect, they suck the blood out of the victim

Basically a souped up Vampiric Touch.
Working on a suitably refluffed version of the spell now.
I don't think the tentacles are optimal choice of weapon either.

If what I'm getting is tight, their attack bonus would be +27.
Which is quite decent.

But they would not have buffs, combat maneuvers, or sla-attacks going through them.
Which makes me doubt their capability of beating about 70% of AC's we'd encounter at our level. And that's if they roll well.

AC aside, well, they are a great choice of an attack. Would have a potential to do more damage that Viserys' own melee, in any case.
Few are times when we won't have sky-high AC to worry about, tho.

+30 Attack bonus, actually. Viserys wouldn't learn them until next level, which would put his BAB at +18. His effective Charisma bonus is +12. That would make them Viserys' most accurate attack among any ranged or melee option he has available.
 
How does this look, ya'll? It's mechanically identical to Blood Tentacles, but re-skinned to better match our magical heritage.
Bloodsteel Chains
Necromancy
Level: Sorcerer/Wizard 5
Components: V, S, F (Valyrian Steel needle)
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Will (harmless)
Spell Resistance: No

As part of casting this spell, you must prick one of your hands with the Valyrian Steel spell focus.

From the affected hand you can cause up to one blood-hued metallic chain per caster level to erupt, targeting a single creature within 15 feet as a Standard Action or one creature per five caster levels as a Full-Round Action. Each chain has an attack bonus equal to your Base Attack Bonus plus either your Constitution or Charisma bonus (whichever is higher). Each chain deals 2d6 points of damage, disintegrating into black rust after being used whether it successfully hits or not, granting you a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to the damage dealt. You can't gain more Temporary Hit Points than your maximum number of Hit Points. These Temporary Hit Points disappear after 1 hour.
 
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