First, you have to maximize it, and that's an eighth level spell. Second, you spend another standard action to use it. Third, you have to be in melee range. Fourth, you have to hit, every time, to do that.

Like I said, sounds nice... In theory.
 
You'll have to refresh my memory on that, because I am coming up blank on that one.
I think the best example of both things was the fight with Blight bane. Starting here
Sentinel of the Sea

Nineteenth Day of the Eleventh Month 292 AC

You ponder the offer for a long moment, sizing up your would-be foe as he holds your gaze in silent challenge. Ser Richard will not be best pleased with you... it may be months before he lets you partake in matters of 'diplomacy' without him. Still, there is a part of you that welcomes the chance at an honest fight to make a clean end of this rather than working treachery in the night. Or I might die, the small self depreciating thought is welcome for the knowledge that the pride of your forefathers has not overcome you utterly... the more so for how you intend to fight.

"So be it," you declare without artifice, giving the warrior a respectful nod. "Might I know your name before battle is joined?" you ask as you swim away from Garin and Dany, the latter looking worried enough to be almost mutinous.

"Will you not fight strangers?" he asks with a laugh that holds only a hint of mockery.

"I would know the names of my allies in the days to come," you counter lightly, catching a few approving looks from the onlookers besides your sister who is still staring angrily at your opponent.

"Blight's Bane I am called," he answers. "If you win I will tell you the tale of my name, if you lose you shall have to be satisfied to become another verse in it."

"I look forward to it..." you smile, facing him across perhaps thirty feet of seawater... your smile grows and grows.

Flesh ripples tortuously, wings vaster than any you have ever borne explode from your back, casting shadows upon the sands. Scales harder than steel cover your flesh and you rise and rise, at last to look down upon your foe from almost twenty feet above the bottom. The world looks so small, these sea-folk you were trying to court so weak... so insignificant. Bid them kneel and slay those who do not, the wordless thought is frightfully strong, but you were a man before you were a dragon and a man you are still even in this titanic form.

"Ah... a challenge," Blight's Bane calls out. "I have never subdued anything as large as that." Left unsaid is the boast that he must have killed something that matched your current bulk. Remembering the monster you had witnessed in the first shark-man village you can well believe he speaks truth.

Rather than continuing to banter you call down blessings upon yourself, ward against common steel, haste to fill your limbs, and even the power to step lightly from the world of form. As you look upon that other ocean as near as your next breath yet infinitely far you notice the spear in the champion's hand glows bright as a sliver of moonlight there.

"Thy foes will not wait forever for you to work your magic," he calls to you though he makes no move to strike first. The water around him begins to swirl, obscuring his features.

As you conjure a handful glamours in your likeness and sorcerous fire bursts from your brow after a brief struggle against the cold currents, you announce: "You may have the first blow if you wish..."

Alas you come to regret your words... swift as an arrow launched from a bow your foe lunges at you. Though you struggle to will yourself from his path but his spear moves too swiftly. Vast wings like a shimmer upon the water ward off the first blow but fate before the second.

Just before it strikes you realize your foe is keeping his eyes tightly closed against glamour and trickery fighting blind either by some arcane sense or superlative skill.

The searing pain of the spear sinking into your flesh does not come at all... instead you merely feel a touch upon your scales. Yet from that touch a deathly cold unlike any you have ever felt sinks into your flesh, locking muscles into helpless spasms, your jaw snaps at nothing, wings flailing about.

Angry flames spill out from your burning crown, once, twice, but they do not bear the harm you had expected.

You lost 28 Temporary Hit Points

You take 10 Damage

You are nauseated for 1 round

What do you do?

[] Move away (provokes AoO)

[] Stand your ground and take a full attack

-[] Say something
[] Write in


OOC: Mechanically Viserys did not give up the first move, he lost initiative but I thought the above was a nice narrative touch when combined with the nasty first hit he got there (including crit fail on a fort save that made him nauseous). Also I'm ruling that talking can be a move action, not like you can do much else while nauseous.
And continuing through the next update. It showcases both DP changing a spell mechanics wise to fit what makes sense to him, with fire shield not really working at all how it's supposed to per RAW, and him introducing an unknown side effect to greater blink that rendered the combo of it and fire shield much less useful that we thought they would be. Both things were done for perfectly valid reasons of logic rather than trying to intentionally nerf us, but nerfing was the effect.
Keep in mind though, this was well over a full year ago and the rulings might have changed since then, it's just what popped into my head, because I called it out at the time.
 
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It would be an excellent spell to use against creatures with extreme SR, DR, and nearly unbearable saves, because it ignores all of those.
 
First, you have to maximize it, and that's an eighth level spell. Second, you spend another standard action to use it. Third, you have to be in melee range. Fourth, you have to hit, every time, to do that.

Like I said, sounds nice... In theory.
Even without Maximizing it, the spell would inflict an average of 140 damage, granting an equal amount of Temp HP. That's very good for a 5th level spell whose effect could be used in the same round as a.Quickened spell due to Arcane Spellsurge.
 
Even without Maximizing it, the spell would inflict an average of 140 damage, granting an equal amount of Temp HP. That's very good for a 5th level spell whose effect could be used in the same round as a.Quickened spell due to Arcane Spellsurge.
No, it would inflict that if you hit with every attack.

Statistically we'd be missing with a quarter to a third, easily.

And you aren't accounting for miss chance.
 
Also, I have a question. Why haven't we made use of Contingency Spell more for anything?
 
All of that can be answered with one of:
- SR: No spells
- Assay SR
- Breath Weapon
- Actual melee combat
- Spell Combat for two of the above
I know of no other SR: No spell that hits so hard. We are getting into the range of enemies who have such high SR that even Assay SR doesn't guarantee. Breath weapon is nice, but can be mitigated by a prepared enemy, and spell combat is significantly hampered by Dark Sister not being able to pierce high level DR.

I'm not saying it is the answer to every situation, but it is a powerful tool to have available, just like Necrotic Bomb, which we haven't used five times in the entire quest.
 
I know of no other SR: No spell that hits so hard. We are getting into the range of enemies who have such high SR that even Assay SR doesn't guarantee. Breath weapon is nice, but can be mitigated by a prepared enemy, and spell combat is significantly hampered by Dark Sister not being able to pierce high level DR.

I'm not saying it is the answer to every situation, but it is a powerful tool to have available, just like Necrotic Bomb, which we haven't used five times in the entire quest.

For those five unique situations where we need Necrotic Skull Bomb? :V
 
Also, I have a question. Why haven't we made use of Contingency Spell more for anything?
I honestly haven't thought about it lately. Until Lya learns it, only Viserys can cast it so he would be the only one with a Contingent spell.

Maybe a Heal spell that activates when HP fall to a certain minimum level?
 
I honestly haven't thought about it lately. Until Lya learns it, only Viserys can cast it so he would be the only one with a Contingent spell.

Maybe a Heal spell that activates when HP fall to a certain minimum level?
See, that was my original thought, I first noted the lack of its use when we applied those Pact spells to everyone over level 5 practically.

Technically there is a time limit on it, unlike those spells, but for high CR fights recovering essentially your entire life points would all but guarantee victory against any opponent who didn't plan on winning by SoD spells, or running away.
 
Trying to think of a good logical minimum level led me to an interesting thought experiment.
How hard would it be for Viserys to defeat Viserys?
Edit: Assuming both Viserii were operating at 'battle plan hivemind' levels of efficiency, of course.
 
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Trying to think of a good logical minimum level led me to an interesting thought experiment.
How hard would it be for Viserys to defeat Viserys?
Edit: Assuming both Viserii were operating at 'battle plan hivemind' levels of efficiency, of course.

Assuming both sides knew about all the spells the other Viserys had in their arsenal it would come down to who hits first and how capable the battle planners are to deconstruct their own strategies and predicting if the other side is doing the same thing. it would come down to the conclusion of treating it like they would any other encounter because as the participants of the hivemnd are the same they would, inevitably, come to the same conclusions. That or a loop of thought that spirals till we have salt mines.

It would be interesting to say the least. Though all this works under the assumption that both sides know about the others hivemind
 
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The actual trick to it would be to get some battle planners from outside the thread to do the planning for us.

Outside Context Xanatos Gambit!
 
I assume when we find this thing's master we'll find the remains of the kids they've abducted.

Would raising them all be possible, or is that out of our ability range?
 
Assuming both sides knew about all the spells the other Viserys had in their arsenal it would come down to who hits first and how capable the battle planners are to deconstruct their own strategies and predicting if the other side is doing the same thing. it would come down to the conclusion of treating it like they would any other encounter because as the participants of the hivemnd are the same they would, inevitably, come to the same conclusions. That or a loop of thought that spirals till we have salt mines.

It would be interesting to say the least. Though all this works under the assumption that both sides know about the others hivemind

All other things being equal it comes down to rolls, but both sides know this and avoid RNG, knowing both sides will avoid RNG your defensive buffs need to be altered, knowing this...

Feels like the Feywild and likely the only way we should realistically face such a situation, which highlights that outside of pure theory there is probably an 'Iron' equivalent for whoever pulled this off.

I assume when we find this thing's master we'll find the remains of the kids they've abducted.

Would raising them all be possible, or is that out of our ability range?

Nothing is impossible, merely varying degrees of costly, but where do you draw the line? Who's dead children don't get raised?
 
We already need 7 knights for the Sept Guard and everyone else should go towards the Order of the Knights Griffon.

Making a prestigious extra-Legion should come at the earliest when we have 10+ regular ones.

That's fine with me, but the idea of having a regular festival/tournament to spot PC tier people and for our Legions to test themselves feels like something we can implement before that.

Don't give DP any ideas!

So no Mirrors of Opposition so we can get our own gear as loot?
 
Canon Omake: Duty and Glory Twinned With Secrets
Duty and Glory Twinned With Secrets

Ninth Day of the Eighth Month 293 AC

Boys can be so stupid, Ysilla thought fondly, even as Thoros fretted over whether or not she was still mad at him but willing to set it aside so they could take advantage of the rarest of opportunities, to explore the city with minimal supervision or any meddling elder siblings to tell them to utilize their free time more responsibly. To her mind, the call of adventure in the City of Wonders wasn't at all about frittering away hours on games to begin with, no matter that they probably had more eyes on them from the King's fearsome and renowned Inquisition in the first place.

She huffed, if mages barely any older than her brother could become famous for stopping loathsome ghouls and fiends from preying on former slavers in their countryside estates, she was certain that they could stumble upon some mystery and intrigue in a city drawing in crowds from half the world over on an average day.
"Alicent, slow d--" Thoros was cut off as she led them through the Bazaar on a shortcut towards the western half of the city, only to stumble into a boy around Waymar's age, flaxen-haired and red-faced. "Oh no..." she heard her friend sigh, even as she glared up at the squire in Lannister garment... no, reversed colours. "What's a Lannister squire doing in Sorcerer's Deep?" she queried sharply, and she had to restrain the urge to blush as she realized the first thing she was prepared to blurt was a curse, not a question.

"I'm not a Lannister," the boy protested, then grew angry, "Just who are you--"

"I'm the one asking the questions here," Ysilla spoke over him, "You should watch where you're going, and be glad I don't have much time for the likes of you." The boy blinked, like as not several holes poked through to let the wind out of his sails. She eyed him carefully, "Almost believed any Westerland knights would be too frightened to venture here for a Tourney hosted by the Dragon King."

"We're not as to beaten dogs who come only at the call of the Old Lion. Is it not said that a Knight can be granted honors the same as they can offer service in turn, to any Lord known to uphold their obligations?" A young man with a white double-tressure upon a greenfield on their surcoat came to the boy's defense, or perhaps just knew she was attempting to provoke him to get a earnest admission of their purposes in the city. Canny, she thought, even as the Knight of perhaps some twenty years introduced himself.

"Ser Garth Greenfield, my lady. And my squire, Renfred Hill. To what do we owe the pleasure?"

Ysilla, being that she could not pretend that she wasn't a lady of some standing while dressed in garments of Myrish lace, curtsied on instinct and gave her correct alias, making all the right sounds even as her mind raced a mile a minute and Thoros introduced himself--and stepped forward all in the same motion, she noted, gladdened that all her regaling him with banners and Houses of the West hadn't been for naught, as even he realized a potential enemy to their liege before them.

"You're here to take part in the Tourney?" Ysilla asked, surprised as the bold-faced admission.

"Were not all the Knights of Westeros invited, from as far as White Harbor in the North, and even to those audacious talking birds spreading their invitations across half a dozen dockside taverns in Lannisport itself?" He demurred, though his eyes sharpened somewhat. "For a Knight seeking service there's little else that calls to them but a grand tournament. I hear tell that Viserys Targaryen has spent more on prize money alone than Robert Baratheon has in all ten years of reigning from King's Landing... and it is well known that he likes to throw many a tourney. As such, there should be many a skilled and worthy challenger attending, seeking to impress just as much as to strike gold."

It also wasn't lost on Ysilla that Ser Garth hadn't called either King Viserys or the Usurper by their assumed titles. And you will be in for a surprise to know the Royal mint around here doesn't back their coinage primarily with gold, she thought with satisfaction of having learned something of trade and finance in her time spent south. There's more danger to dangling dragons coming from the Deep in the Westerlands from your purse than it is to trust in bullion mined directly from the Westerlands, and foolish all the more for it when the terminal granting access to realms of stone where the boulevards are paved with gold just let in a whole great caravan full of Xorn with alluring riches. And even they are trading in the King's coins.

"Perhaps my lady and her companion would not mind showing us around the city before we acquire suitable accommodations? Unless we are unwelcome in your presence?" She wasn't sure if either was entirely welcome, given the squire was still sullenly glaring at her, but before she could think of a way to take advantage of his perception of her as nonthreatening in the extreme, they were interrupted by the clearing of a throat...

"I am afraid that will not be necessary," said a lilting Braavosi accented voice, gently nudging Thoros out of the way. "I thought I recognized you," Lord Uthero smirked. "Lady Alicent, wasn't it? A ward of my good friend's sworn sword, I believe."

"You were at the ball!" Ysilla recalled, he had been joking with Lord Sorin and his wife while Kyla made faces behind their backs since they had been insufferably affectionate to see her again, the thought of which made Ysilla twinge in longing for her own mother and father who likely would not be able to see her here in the Deep, though maybe one of her brothers might come to visit soon. There would be a great Joust after all...

"Indeed," the Lord Keyholder from Braavos replied, not at all worried about the possible spy or interloper sent from the West before them. As far as Ysilla knew, Lord Uthero had just bought a manse in the city near the Braavosi quarter in preparation for moving into the city, and was said to have dealings with the King's businesses. So she was not at all surprised to see him trailed by clerks, scribes as much as spies and bodyguards. A bravo with a blade might be underestimated on a battlefield, but given neither of the Westerlanders were wearing their armor right now that just showed that most Essosi from Braavos, if they were martially inclined, believed a fight could come at you at any time and it was best to be prepared for it in any situation. Or that's what her brother had told her, at any rate. "I have it on good authority that there will be some exhibition matches soon, spell weaving and single combat between knights or bravos with their blades. Even some of King VIserys' legion have come to participate later in the month."

"You don't say?" Ser Garth seemed interested. "Do you know where they will be taking place?"

"Some have gathered to display their talents on the training grounds, while the Circle of Battle is being... renovated," Uthero smiled secretively, drawing burbling laughter from both her and Thoros. What will they think to see an arena that can seat over five thousand torn down by stone giants over the King's concern that it needs to be at least ten times larger to accommodate all the visitors in addition to the tens of thousands of immigrants who have moved here over the last few months?

Ysilla was eager to hear all the rumors from Waymar when he stopped being so busy with his duties, about the mischief he and Viserys had wrought upon the Usurper and their foes. It was one thing to casually display their might and innovations before their enemies, but she wondered what crystallized terror will be wrought of the deeds of magic performed in plain sight for all these knights and would-be spies sent to observe the King and his company in action. Most of them aren't even in the city right now, so they'll be disappointed.

It never once dawned on her that there could be some plot afoot to take advantage of that absence, either. If King Viserys did not take care of it, loyal men like the Lord in front of her would.

***​

"What happened?" Her eyes were wide with surprise at the sight of Kyla and Jorel exchanging furtive glances at each other, the Darkenbeast which had been spirited away over night and was currently nursing its pride--or that's what it looked like as it say sullenly off to the side and ignoring wary glances from the crowds pass through the major thoroughfare off King's Street.

"Look," Thoros pointed, where King Viserys was near lividly dressing down a Legionaire, still floating in mid-air like a kitten held up by the scruff, through use of his mind-magic exerting will upon the physical world around them. "Looks like they got the wrong idea about the air show... tried to take a war beast and make it do tricks like a show pony," he shook his head. "Everyone knows dragons and thus their kin weren't the most graceful fliers... they're for war."

You wouldn't have known that if you didn't spend almost as much time with your nose shoved into books as Joran did
, Ysilla thought, before thinking it unkind of her. After all, they had both seen plenty of dragons flying around in their time living in the Deep. One of them before her. She was not still sullen about their earlier arguments, or getting reprimanded by her minder for slipping their notice most of a day to spend it in the city with her friends. She was forced to have dinner at Kyla's with her family hovering all about because of it, too. She also wasn't at all jealous of the fey-wrought gifts her and her brother had gotten her being withheld by the Volantene almost-nanny, either. Doubtless the fact that Waymar would approve of it grated more... they only wanted to watch the mages go dueling!

She longed to test her skills herself, and sitting around reading and studying as her friends did wasn't as appealing as taking action, either.

"While it is clear your discharge was inevitable after this shameful display," the King spoke with such disgust that the man visibly flinched from each admonishment, whether in shame or fear, it was hard to tell which, "Allow me to make it even more clear. You have brought dishonor to those bearing the arms of the Legion and those honored fallen who fought for freedom's sake alone." Those words could more easily seal a man's fate than being brought up to the headsman's axe, but it dawned on Ysilla that in all of this the King could have saved the flying beast, as it still held value to him, and let the man fall to his death.

He quite pointedly did not.

That's what magic should be used for, she decided then and there. Helping other people, whether they're smart enough to appreciate it or not.
 
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Sorry Goldie but I'll have to fight you on this one, I absolutely despise this kind of retraining and I don't care for arguments of mechanics optimisation or replacing it with an item, don't care he has GT either.

It's narratively painful to me.

Subconscious decision making on what spells you have is how I fluff the changes we make to our spell list. The changes that are an explicit feature of the sorcerer class. You can dislike and vote against it sure, but changing spell load out has always been a function from the start. I don't understand why it's a problem now and not before.

We could retrain entire feats in the early days of the quest by using the dragon dreams, so I don't see the issue with using them to retrain a superfluous spell.

Also, next level is Miracle time.

I have been operating under the impression that we still can. And that's a big deal. I want to replace the feat (additional spell, necrotic skull bomb) with the feat (additional spell, timestop)

Seriously, I can not overstate how awesome it will be to have timestop when we get mythic tier 2.

The only problem is that a)I'm not sure if we got one or two spells out of that feat, need to check b)we're gonna have to be under the long duration will save boosters to use the feat swop mechanic, cuz the DC increases with your level :)
 
Subconscious decision making on what spells you have is how I fluff the changes we make to our spell list. The changes that are an explicit feature of the sorcerer class. You can dislike and vote against it sure, but changing spell load out has always been a function from the start. I don't understand why it's a problem now and not before.



I have been operating under the impression that we still can. And that's a big deal. I want to replace the feat (additional spell, necrotic skull bomb) with the feat (additional spell, timestop)

Seriously, I can not overstate how awesome it will be to have timestop when we get mythic tier 2.

The only problem is that a)I'm not sure if we got one or two spells out of that feat, need to check b)we're gonna have to be under the long duration will save boosters to use the feat swop mechanic, cuz the DC increases with your level :)

With Expanded Arcana, you get one spell of your highest spell level, or up to two in any other circle of magic.
 
Nothing is impossible, merely varying degrees of costly, but where do you draw the line? Who's dead children don't get raised?

I'd draw it at "dead of natural causes that were unpreventable by medicine or magical intervention."

Like, a kid that get's dragged off by a gigantic monster and eaten alive, that's something you fix, but a stillbirth is something you can't fix because it's dead to begin with.

I mean we're already drawing up plans for the eventual hurdles that will come from a society where death is not permanent(Inheritance, interest rates, that sort of thing), so the line basically already being drawn as we speak and it so far it seems to start at "it was never alive to begin with."
 
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