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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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TalonofAnathrax said:
I edited my post. What do you think of the addition?
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Yeah, I would prefer a smaller fee as well. 10% would be fine with me (I'd also be fine with just breaking even).
Deliste said:
Needlessly dangerous and inherently attracts the cheap and "free spirited" (read: most likely to be followed etc.) for no gain, if anything the mobile version should be more expensive for danger pay, they may very well have to die to protect the equipment and process.
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Upon further thought, I believe you are correct. It's early, so my brain isn't properly caffeinated yet. Editing my earlier post now.
 
...I still think this whole thing hideously overcomplicated a solution to a problem that shall perish as soon as we get to dictate our rules on PoFm which is mere years away it seems.
We are going to kill off most whalers anyway, no?

But whatever. If we are doing this, I'm squarely with @Azel here.
At least let's somewhat profit from this whole thing.
Not like whales have any use for this money, except to gear themselves up a bit.
 
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zxzx24 said:
"Fair share" is kind of a weird concept for the organ trade.

Look at it this way, at least its not trolls!
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It's not really the organ trade, it would be more equivalent, to compare it to trading skin grafts, something that can hurt and inconvenience you to sell, but you experience no long term problems if it's done properly.
Arimai said:
I edited my post before you replied. As to Yrten's thought he says common whale gems are red. All whale gems prior to having been told of the possibility of live gems are from dead whales. Not just a few whale gems, all whale gems that he knows of are red.
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I doubt that, our research specifically show, that special whales like Baella produce more valuable gems, so gems gotten when such whales were killed were probably also a different color, it might be that harvested gems, have a different basic color from hunted gems, but it's very likely that gems from special whales, have a whole third kind of color.
DragonParadox said:
They were mostly harvested from her though also from a few common whales, just to make sure the procedure worked on them with no modifications.
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So is it the case that gems harvested has a different color, or is it just that he mostly noticed Baella's gems, and those were a different color, due to her magic making her gems different from normal?
Goldfish said:
What about we go with two different levels of billable service?

We charge a larger amount, something like 40-50% to provide mobile harvesters, complete with a substantial protective detail to accompany them, who will come to the Fire Whales out in the wilds, but also maintain a large Fire Whale Harvesting Center in a semi-permanent location (perhaps mobile?) set up in territory controlled by our allies which has a much lower fee between 10-20% fee due to the decreased danger and more consistent harvest provided by Fire Whales making the trip to a centralized location rather than needing to track down individual pods.

The Harvesting Center would have better facilities, more guards, and increased defenses, along with accommodations for several pods simultaneously. It could become a regular gathering point for the Fire Whales, facilitating social interaction and serving as a seed from which a more complex society may form.
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I would do it the other way around, you can get the service cheaply if you come to us, but if you would prefer the harvesters travel to you, then you will have to pay an extra fee.

The Whale's are nomads, and they range a huge sea, traveling to a harvesting center monthly is a bother, so from their perspective harvesters coming to them is better, and from our perspective, a harvesting center is better, as the harvesters don't spend a lot of time traveling, meaning 1 harvester can service more whales, and we can immediately secure the gems, instead of risking having pirates attack an harvester.

But it's a good idea to have 2 levels of service, that charge different shares of the profits.
 
tarrangar said:
I would do it the other way around, you can get the service cheaply if you come to us, but if you would prefer the harvesters travel to you, then you will have to pay an extra fee.

The Whale's are nomads, and they range a huge sea, traveling to a harvesting center monthly is a bother, so from their perspective harvesters coming to them is better, and from our perspective, a harvesting center is better, as the harvesters don't spend a lot of time traveling, meaning 1 harvester can service more whales, and we can immediately secure the gems, instead of risking having pirates attack an harvester.

But it's a good idea to have 2 levels of service, that charge different shares of the profits.
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I originally had it the other way around, but @Deliste pointed out (and I agree with him) that the mobile service should be the more expensive of the two. Not only would there be a great deal of travel involved tracking down the FIre Whales, it would also be much more dangerous, given the inhabitants of the Plane of Fire and the Efreeti whalers themselves, so would require us to hire stronger guards, increased pay to account for the danger, and likely attrition among those guards and harvesters.

The Harvesting Center, on the other hand, could have better protection and more comprehensive facilities, while being located in a somewhat more hospitable location. It would cost more to setup up initially, but long term operating expenses should be much less.
Azel said:
I'm wholly unsupportive on the amount of time and effort people want to throw at this for utterly marginal profits.
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I don't want to spend any Viserys or Companion time on this, or just the absolute bare minimum. We should be able to facilitate it through our other allies, namely the Phoenixes and Salamanders. We can get it off the ground, provide the business model and start up resources, then sit back and rake in whatever percentage of profits we decide to charge for our services.
 
Azel said:
I'm wholly unsupportive on the amount of time and effort people want to throw at this for utterly marginal profits.
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Marginal profits? 1 pod at 10% would get us 1400 IM a month, considering there are 10s of thousands of pods, that's a very large potential profit, this business will take time to mature of course, but if even 10 percent of all Fire Whales should someday be getting harvested monthly, then that would produce 840 million IM worth of gems a year, if we got 10% of that, we would be looking at a yearly income of 84 millions a year(minus operating costs of course) considering we are probably going to be getting 20% at least, that's 168 IM a year if we get 10% of the Whales in on it.

Edit the 10% is from the fact DP has said there's roughly a million Fire Whales in this part of the POF(saying this part because the POF is endless, there's probably other Whales living in the deep parts of the POF)
 
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Goldfish said:
I originally had it the other way around, but @Deliste pointed out (and I agree with him) that the mobile service should be the more expensive of the two. Not only would there be a great deal of travel involved tracking down the FIre Whales, it would also be much more dangerous, given the inhabitants of the Plane of Fire and the Efreeti whalers themselves, so would require us to hire stronger guards, increased pay to account for the danger, and likely attrition among those guards and harvesters.
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I was trying to point that out too, guess I got ninjaed by Deliste.
 
I think 25% of the profits, we run the operation centralised only and our costs are covered, we can run a build-lease-retire project for guards keeping us invested in improving said guards as we will get them in X time.

Will make it a pseudo mercenary operation and with the likely range of these whales a decent scouting operation.

The whales stay safer, the routine pilgrimage for profit and protection (sooner or later hunting empty whales is gonna get old) will also basically create whale centralised-civilization not even accounting for the Int stat boosters.
 
Vote closed. I think I'll cover the whale vote in the next update so we can move though rather than just talking about hypothetical solutions.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jan 21, 2019 at 5:51 AM, finished with 268084 posts and 5 votes.
  • [X] Accept the mission
    -[X] Ask more questions, after assuring Mahuroos Tepan that any information shared with us will remain Need-to-Know among our people, and even then only shared with those protected by Mind Blank.
    --[X] We will need all of the intelligence the Shaitan have on the City of Brass; this includes information on criminal enterprises, officials who can be bribed (and who can be bribed and actually expected to stay bought), etc.
    --[X] Any agents they have in the City of Brass or nearby; we don't need to interact with them, but if the Shaitan fear treachery, we at least need to know who to avoid.
    --[X] Information the Shaitan have gathered on the City itself, including any schematics for important buildings, warding schemes, guard composition, etc, especially for the Forge of Agony itself.
    --[X] Ask to borrow as many Mind Blank items as the Shaitan can spare for this mission. We've been purchasing them as quickly as possible, but the war efforts will soon drastically slow the rate in which we can commission them.
    --[X] Do the Shaitan have any intentions of utilizing the cave network linked to the Mirror Portal, or the portal itself, in upcoming efforts against the Efreeti?
    --[X] Was any useful information retrieved from the Efreeti trapped in the Soul Gem we recently passed on to the Shaitan?
    --[X] What is the absolute longest completion of this mission can be delayed without compromising the effectiveness of the combined offensive against the Efreeti?
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Deliste said:
I think 25% of the profits, we run the operation centralised only and our costs are covered, we can run a build-lease-retire project for guards keeping us invested in improving said guards as we will get them in X time.

Will make it a pseudo mercenary operation and with the likely range of these whales a decent scouting operation.

The whales stay safer, the routine pilgrimage for profit and protection (sooner or later hunting empty whales is gonna get old) will also basically create whale centralised-civilization not even accounting for the Int stat boosters.
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No such things as empty Whales, they need gems in their stomach, so the harvesters are only taking what they can spare, so a Whalers profits are unfortunately not impacted that much, it's only their danger levels that go way up.
 
Deliste said:
Not sure how it fits in at this point and sorry to bug if it's coming up but we did vote to look for Shapeshifter ashes and or corpses.
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@DragonParadox, and making an OV installation of The Church of Snek.
and buying Silver Bell seeds, if they are avaliable.
And looking for metal-clad template creatures.
And setting up a terminal of planar trade at OV.
And hiring Bards at AK.
 
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Moving Vee and Waymar's animal companion and Familiar to have room on the front page

Winter the White Raven


Size/Type: Tiny Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 15 (45 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 10 ft. (2 squares), fly 40 ft. (average)
Armor Class: 18 (+2 size, +2 Dex +4 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +7/-5
Attack: Claws +7/+2 melee (1d2-5)
Full Attack: Claws +7/+2 melee (1d2-5)
Space/Reach: 2½ ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Deliver Touch Spells
Special Qualities: Low-Light Vision, Speak Tongue: Westerosi Common, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Emphatic link, Speak with Ravens
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +4, Will +9
Abilities: Str 1, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 9, Wis 14, Cha
Skills: Listen Spot +7
Feats: Alertness, Weapon FinesseB​
Environment: Temperate Forests
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 1/6
Alignment: Lawfully Good

Slither

Medium Animal
Hit Dice: 3d8+6 (19 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), climb 20 ft., swim 20 ft.
Armor Class: 15 (+3 Dex, +2 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+5
Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d3+5)
Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d3+5)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Constrict 1d3+4, Improved Grab
Special Qualities: Scent
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +6, Will +2
Abilities: Str 17, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2
Skills: Balance +11, Climb +14, Hide +10, Listen +7, Spot +7, Swim +11
Feats: Alertness, Toughness
Alignment: Chaotically Neutral

Constrict (Ex): On a successful grapple check, a constrictor snake deals 1d3+4 points of damage.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a constrictor snake must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

Link (Ex): A druid can handle her animal companion as a free action, or push it as a move action, even if she doesn't have any ranks in the Handle Animal skill. The druid gains a +4 circumstance bonus on all wild empathy checks and Handle Animal checks made regarding an animal companion.

Share Spells (Ex): At the druid's option, she may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) she casts upon herself also affect her animal companion. The animal companion must be within 5 feet of her at the time of casting to receive the benefit. If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the animal companion if the companion moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the animal again, even if it returns to the druid before the duration expires. Additionally, the druid may cast a spell with a target of "You" on her animal companion (as a touch range spell) instead of on herself. A druid and her animal companion can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion's type (animal).
 
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Deliste said:
Of course they are, less is less and we just turned a 8 piece McNugget meal into a 2 piece McNugget meal, nobody's paying for that.
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Not that big a difference, 1/8 of a Whales gem can be removed, so it's turning an 8 piece Mcnugget meal, into a 7 piece Mcnugget meal, and if they have gear that can boost the earnings back up.

So the problem for the Whalers isn't going to be decreased profits, it's going to be increased dangers.

They might also swear a bit about decreased profits, but that's going to be a minor issue, it's the fact that so many Whalers will be killed hunting that will hurt them.
 
tarrangar said:
Marginal profits? 1 pod at 10% would get us 1400 IM a month, considering there are 10s of thousands of pods, that's a very large potential profit, this business will take time to mature of course, but if even 10 percent of all Fire Whales should someday be getting harvested monthly, then that would produce 840 million IM worth of gems a year, if we got 10% of that, we would be looking at a yearly income of 84 millions a year(minus operating costs of course) considering we are probably going to be getting 20% at least, that's 168 IM a year if we get 10% of the Whales in on it.

Edit the 10% is from the fact DP has said there's roughly a million Fire Whales in this part of the POF(saying this part because the POF is endless, there's probably other Whales living in the deep parts of the POF)
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The simple rules of supply and demand mean that this isn't how it's going to work out.

Once we sell a steady supply, the prices for the gems will fall due to increased supply, lowering profit margins. At some point, especially with those insane 10% rates, it becomes unviable to keep up production. With a fair 50% cut, we can sustain operations much longer, to the point where whaling becomes uncompetitive, thus ending it for good.
 
Azel said:
The simple rules of supply and demand mean that this isn't how it's going to work out.

Once we sell a steady supply, the prices for the gems will fall due to increased supply, lowering profit margins. At some point, especially with those insane 10% rates, it becomes unviable to keep up production. With a fair 50% cut, we can sustain operations much longer, to the point where whaling becomes uncompetitive, thus ending it for good.
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Not so sure about that, if the gems were vanity goods that would be the case, but they are crafting reagents, while their price might fall somewhat from increased demand, it's not going to fall that much, because the planes consume billions of IM worth of crafting reagents a month.

They are probably worth, between between half again and twice as much as their crafting reagent price due to rarity, but at the very most their worth might halve, it's not going to fall to 20% of what it is now.
 
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Why are people wishing to hand over 90% of the profits (and I assume this is profits, not gross proceedings) to INT 2-6 beings when we are already essentially saving their lives by doing this?

We are the first person who cared and was able to do something about it, and came up with a method to make a profit out of protecting them, at no detriment to them.

Just safe port and food would probably be enough.

Yeah, the analogy might be selling your blood... But you are not only getting paid from it, but the corporation buying your blood is actually giving you shelter from a highly dangerous terrorist organization that's after your head.
 
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TotallyNotEvil said:
Why are people wishing to hand over 90% of the profits (and I assume this is profits, not gross proceedings) to INT 2-6 beings when we are already essentially saving their lives by doing this?

We are the first person who cared and was able to do something about it, and came up with a method to make a profit out of protecting them, at no detriment to them.

Just safe port and food would probably be enough.

Yeah, the analogy might be selling your blood... But you are not only getting paid from it, but the corporation buying your blood is actually giving you shelter from a highly dangerous terrorist organization that's after your head.
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Azel said:
The simple rules of supply and demand mean that this isn't how it's going to work out.

Once we sell a steady supply, the prices for the gems will fall due to increased supply, lowering profit margins. At some point, especially with those insane 10% rates, it becomes unviable to keep up production. With a fair 50% cut, we can sustain operations much longer, to the point where whaling becomes uncompetitive, thus ending it for good.
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OK TNE convinced me, 50% would be fair, although as they need money right away to pay for gear or mercenaries, I think we should offer the first 3 harvestings at a significant discount, simply because for those first few harvesting they need all the income they can get, but long term even 10% would be enough, to buy the protection they want.

So 3 harvestings at 20%, so they can buy more gear or hire more mercenaries right away, and afterwards the rate is 50% if they come to the harvesting stations, and 70% if they want the harvesters to come to them.
 
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TotallyNotEvil said:
Mate, we will have to explain the value of money itself to the whales.

They can just hang around a bit.
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Except they eat a lot, and we are planning on attracting multiple pods, I doubt there will be enough food, for multiple pods to stick around for more than a week.

Sure Whales can go for months without food, but it's not exactly something they enjoy, so unless we want to add a bunch of expense to import food, each pod will at most be able to stay a week.

A single pod is always on the move, a gathering of 10s of pods, would eat everything in range if they stayed for more than a few weeks, and that's being optimistic.
 
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