The man married some who he just met. He messed up and thus can live with the consequences. While I do think what she did was shady, we cannot prove without a shadow of a doubt that she is guilty. But if he wasn't in his right mind, ie in pain, lost limbs and chose to marry her then legally he was not of sound and mind. Would anything he did even be valid?
 
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The legality of the matter is pretty clear here and the widow is entirely within her right to be granted ownership of the estate. The steward makes a good case for himself, but being competent isn't a substitute for legal rights.

[X] First Case: The lady has clear and legal right to the inheritance and thus the estate. However, the steward made a good case for his work, so he will receive the right to buy the estate from her at the market value, as determined by the office of taxation of the Imperial Administration. If he is willing to do this, the Iron Bank will certainly be willing to offer him a loan at a reasonable rate and if not, you have many positions in the realm where a man of his skill would be greatly appreciated.

This is not dissimilar from a shared inheritance with non-dividable assets and pretty fair. The lady definitely gets her due, one way or another, and the steward has at least a chance to get the estate, if he is willing to take a loan for it. Otherwise, we got tons of job openings for him.


Congratulations on marrying a woman you've known for at most a week, moron.

[X] Second Case: It is self-evident that Glyllo was not bespelled as he claims, thus he has no right to an annulment. The use of magic to improve the self is inherently no reprehensible act, not dissimilar form buying fancy clothing, using make-up or dying your hair. All of these things also change the way a person appears to others, yet no one would ask for an annulment for discovering a wrinkle or mole on his bride. The marriage stands and must be divorced as normal, though you would approve if they spend at least some time together before doing so, as Nesora merely tried to overcome shyness and there might yet be a chance that he will appreciate her once he knows her a bit better.


Going for a smoke, then on to the septon.
I'm gonna have to disagree on the first case here Azel. When you give the stewart the ability to buy the estate, does he get the lady's title and inheritable rights too? She's noble remember?
This is not a simple property transaction here, we're meddling with inheritance and succession rights. As much as I feel for the stewart, the most he should be awarded is a monetary bonus for his examplary service.
 
[X] Azel

Heeeere comes the exam on German Language~
And gueeees who's not prepared for it at all and is going to hide cheat sheets all over himseeelf~

*depression sets in*
*egoo can't afford to spend time here anymore*
Wenn du mit der Sprache deine Probleme hast, schreib doch einfach ab und an PM's mit einem der Deutschen hier. Am besten lernt man eine Sprache indem man sie benutzt und ich hätte kein Problem damit dir da ein wenig zu helfen.

Not to mention the man was essentially on his deathbed: missing a hand and an eye and feverish.


You know what's worth asking for an annulment over?

That you married the one who was virtually the woman of your dreams in your deathbed... and then three days later she very literally isn't it anymore.

It's akin to her wearing a literal mask the entire time, one of those incredible holywood life-like jobs.

A person with 12-14 Charisma is drastically different from a person with 18-20 Charisma.

He married Helen of Troy, and three days later is was Mary from the cornerstore.
My sympathy for his boner going down after 3 days is pretty much nil.

On the matter of divorce, @DragonParadox, would the divorce give her any money? Some here assume it does, I personally assume it doesn't.
As for me, I think she should get nothing. The marriage is definitely legal under current laws, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been made under false assumptions.
 
I think that if you wanna save this man from losing half his stuff, the argument doesn't have to do with magic at all. The problem was that he was in his deathbed and so he wasn't on his full mental faculties to make that decision.

Of course, this would need legal precedent first. If you can prove someone was drunk while signing a document, then it would not be valid.
 
I'm gonna have to disagree on the first case here Azel. When you give the stewart the ability to buy the estate, does he get the lady's title and inheritable rights too? She's noble remember?
This is not a simple property transaction here, we're meddling with inheritance and succession rights. As much as I feel for the stewart, the most he should be awarded is a monetary bonus for his examplary service.
No, it's just the property rights, not her noble title or anything. Essosi nobility isn't tied to land.
 
You know what's worth asking for an annulment over?

That you married the one who was virtually the woman of your dreams in your deathbed... and then three days later she very literally isn't it anymore.

It's akin to her wearing a literal mask the entire time, one of those incredible holywood life-like jobs.

A person with 12-14 Charisma is drastically different from a person with 18-20 Charisma.

He married Helen of Troy, and three days later is was Mary from the cornerstore.
Yeah but the question is not whether she tricked him, the question is whether it count as enchantment, and while she definitely tricked him, she did not enchant him, so she's clear on the issue of enchantment, whether she's clear of fraud is a distinctly other question.
 
My sympathy for his boner going down after 3 days is pretty much nil.
Except it wasn't just appearance, it completely changed how her very personality: the woman he married was a fey lady.
As for me, I think she should get nothing. The marriage is definitely legal under current laws, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been made under false assumptions.
???

If it were the case, he wouldn't be needing an annulment.

Her getting nothing in the divorce is what I've been suggesting all along.

And the ruling on the divorce will no doubt take this into account. But let's not outlaw glamors because of the first dubious use of them that crosses us.
Read above.

I'm not saying we outlaw it.

I'm saying we nod and agree... and then, if he asks for a divorce, just give her half of what was earned... in the three days they were married.
 
I feel we should uphold the marriage, but weight any proceeding divorce in favor of the deceived husband. Because it isn't just the case that the husband was taken advantage of, but that they were very obviously under duress when deceived I.E on their sickbed.
 
[X] First Case: The lady has clear and legal right to the inheritance and thus the estate. However, the steward made a good case for his work, so he will receive the right to buy the estate from her at the market value, as determined by the office of taxation of the Imperial Administration. If he is willing to do this, the Iron Bank will certainly be willing to offer him a loan at a reasonable rate and if not, you have many positions in the realm where a man of his skill would be greatly appreciated.
Here you are making a rule whereupon people have no incentive in building a lasting legacy, as a competent servant will get an estate-approved loan and you will be forced to sell it.

Bad move.
 
Yeah but the question is not whether she tricked him, the question is whether it count as enchantment, and while she definitely tricked him, she did not enchant him, so she's clear on the issue of enchantment, whether she's clear of fraud is a distinctly other question.
Debatable. We want to establish a distinction between this and enchantment, yeah. But we could also rule that the marriage is void for other reasons.


Except it wasn't just appearance, it completely changed how her very personality: the woman he married was a fey lady.
Um, no? She was just a little more eloquent and graceful. She didn't become a Fey or anything. She just got an enhancement bonus to Cha.
Otherwise are we murdering ourselves whenever we put on a Cloak of Charisma?
 
Wenn du mit der Sprache deine Probleme hast, schreib doch einfach ab und an PM's mit einem der Deutschen hier. Am besten lernt man eine Sprache indem man sie benutzt und ich hätte kein Problem damit dir da ein wenig zu helfen.
@egoo Can confirm and would gladly help if you want to speak german.

Using english here (besides using the rest of the english parts of the internet) really helped me.
Went from regular school-english a few years ago to current skills with nothing but that.
 
Debatable. We want to establish a distinction between this and enchantment, yeah. But we could also rule that the marriage is void for other reasons.
Yeah we can rule it's void for other reasons, such as the fact that the charm effect was clearly temporary, we can always rule that such enhancements are legal, but in cases of marriage you have to inform your spouse, that you have a magical enhancement before the wedding.
 
Um, no? She was just a little more eloquent and graceful. She didn't become a Fey or anything. She just got an enhancement bonus to Cha.
Otherwise are we murdering ourselves whenever we put on a Cloak of Charisma?
In-character, what she got was a fey blessing to "let her have the confidence and grace of a fey lady".

She was plain not the woman he married.

Not "you've changed so much after the war!", but literally three days later she acted as a completely different person.
 
Here you are making a rule whereupon people have no incentive in building a lasting legacy, as a competent servant will get an estate-approved loan and you will be forced to sell it.

Bad move.
I'd rather say we incentivice people to build up and/or care for their lasting legacies, because a full generation of inaction can loose that legacy.
As the case sounds the lord has not been running his lands at all for the majority of his life.
 
Here you are making a rule whereupon people have no incentive in building a lasting legacy, as a competent servant will get an estate-approved loan and you will be forced to sell it.

Bad move.
It's establishing that if you for a prolonged time don't attend to your estate, then the person you have doing it for you have the right to buy you out, it's not against the people who actually manage their estate, it's against the kind of people, who inherited an estate, and just put someone in charge, and tell them to send the earnings to you while you travel and party.
 
In-character, what she got was a fey blessing to "let her have the confidence and grace of a fey lady".

She was plain not the woman he married.

Not "you've changed so much after the war!", but literally three days later she acted as a completely different person.
What? You're massively over-interpreting a throwaway line of fluff which tries to describe a +6 to Cha. No personality change at all. The confidence was probably just appearance: of course you seem more confident when you have better social skills! Confidence is a key part of Diplomacy, Bluff and Intimidate.
 
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