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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Yes, that is the more important concern. We need to get them into the field soon.
 
I would prefer not to kill the more sane Lyseni. I thought this whole plan was about removing the idiots and than letting the competent one serve us Lys on a platter.

Killing most of the sane ones would stretch our ability to govern Lys in the short term as well.
 
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Goldfish said:
Even the more sane of them are unrepentant slavers. They aren't just slavers, but they breed slaves with the express purpose of selling them into sexual slavery, often as children.

Sanity doesn't equate to being worthy of existence.
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Sure, but Tyrosh was similarly bad and we still kept enough people alive for a functioning administration.

If @Azel can say we can import enough people by now to solve that problem it's fine, but if not we need some sane Lyseni to actually make any profit from conquering this place.
 
Goldfish said:
Even the more sane of them are unrepentant slavers. They aren't just slavers, but they breed slaves with the express purpose of selling them into sexual slavery, often as children.

Sanity doesn't equate to being worthy of existence.
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And unlike with Tyrosh, we actually have the bureaucrats to replace them, in Tyrosh we had to let most of the bastards live, as they were needed to run Tyrosh, but we can run Lys without the Lyseni elite, so we can afford to let them like the scum they are.
 
Goldfish said:
Even the more sane of them are unrepentant slavers. They aren't just slavers, but they breed slaves with the express purpose of selling them into sexual slavery, often as children.

Sanity doesn't equate to being worthy of existence.
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Unfortunately, that's basically the industry in Lys. Most of us aren't willing to completely exterminate the non-slaves, so this is something we're just going to have to stomach.
 
Crake said:
But, if I'm not wrong, @DragonParadox, the standard modus operandi for Lyseni removing obstacles is quite... well, put one way, the Tyroshi might remove rivals with the calcified remains of the legal code and press the advantage with brute force if moved to desperation, but the Lyseni are, at least against the mundanes they've been pitted against, actually competent at assassination of their rivals. I also assume they're somewhat more able at leveraging trade than the Tyroshi were. Meaning they could resort to less insane chicanery before offing someone important.
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Yes, the Lysene are more wiling to use pure intrigue whether it be defamation or blackmail before moving on to actually spilling blood.
 
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Interlude CCCXXXVI: Beneath Black Cloaks
  • Threadmarks
    • Beneath Black Cloaks ​

    Eighth Day of the Seventh Month 293 AC

    The helmet clanged against stone, the sound shockingly loud in the stillness of the small room. "What the fuck did the North fight for if we're all back to crawling before dragons?!" shouted Benjen Stark, First Ranger of the Night's Watch, youngest son of Rickard Stark the former lord of Winterfell, and he hated himself for them. He hated that he had lost control before his bothers, he hated that he had spoken of the oaths to kith and kin though he should have none, though he deserved none. Most of all he hated that he sounded pleading.

    Again silence reigned save for the slow drip of melting ice sliding off Benjen's mail and on to the stone floor. The firelight threw wavering shadows onto the faces of all present—Ranger, Commander, and the ancient Maester of the Watch. And he the youngest as ever, a faint shiver of self-depreciating humor offered feeble refuge to a mind in turmoil.

    The Old Bear's expression was stern as he had seen it a thousand times before when chiding one brother or another for failing to uphold their oath in word and deed. He opened his mouth to answer, then to the younger man's surprise he closed it and sighed and shrugged off his black cloak and hung it near the door. "It will be there waiting for me when we are done talking," he explained, then looking towards the First Ranger he added: "You look cold in yours, Ben. Maybe you should leave it by the fire for a while."

    Subtlety was not a word often used to describe Jeor Mormont, nor indeed any other of his house, but the message was clear. In this place and for a little while they would speak as men and not as brothers of the Watch.

    Feeling as unbalanced as a stripling boy talking to his father, Benjen did as he was asked.

    "I think I'll keep mine, the cold bites keenest into oldest bones," the old Maester said, his smile deepening the web of lines that crisscrossed his face. "Count it a deed done in spirit."

    A weak shaky laugh passed Benjen's lips, much to his further surprise. He did not think he had it in him.

    "I can't answer why every man in the North rebelled," the Old Bear began. "I can make some fair guesses, but that's neither here nor there. What I can tell you for certain, Ben, is why I would have fought the Mad King if I hadn't already taken the vows. I would have fought because he made a mockery of justice before men and gods, because he proved by his deeds that he had not the wits to rule a kennel much less a kingdom."

    "Oh but Rhaegar was the Silver Prince, perfect as you please, and his brother is the bloody Last Hero come again, is he?" again the anger surged to Benjen's lips, unbidden like a black bubbling tide.

    "I never met Rhaegar, though we exchanged letters a few times," Maester Aemon replied softly. "He seemed to me a man who lived too often in tales and not in the world that is, looking to history and prophecy for answers and letting the now slip by. In that he appeared no more perfect to me than any other man." His words held not a whisper of rebuke, only kindness. With a sigh he added, "Sometimes I wonder if I should have guessed what passed through his mind to offer some counsel to save him from himself."

    "Lyanna was willing. I knew, I helped her..." Benjen could not believe the words he had just spoken, the secret he had kept for so long from all save Ned. Gods, he had just blurted it out like he was some child brought to task. He opened his mouth to speak but no words came out.

    "Many had though she went willingly," Jeor Mormont replied at length. "But I'd not say she was willing at the end. Think it through, would she had stayed in godsdamned Dorne meek as a dove when news came of the evil that had been done to her father and bother?"

    "I don't..." He could not bring himself to say it. He could not say he did not know Lyanna, that he did not trust her, even after all these years. "No, no she wouldn't."

    "The war would have been fought some other way," Aemon interjected, voice just as soft as before but firm for all that. "T'was like a boulder rolling down a hill and all the Seven Kingdoms in its path. The only thing that might have been different would have been if the rebel lords would have quarreled among themselves, and mayhap Aerys would have won his bloody victory from the fray. I cannot imagine, truly imagine what he would have done then, but you can be sure his vengeance would have been savage, enough to sow the seeds of another rebellion among all right-thinking men. The evils of the war are not yours to bear anymore than they are Lady Lyanna's. You were all as children then, and for that you suffered."

    "I was five-and-ten, near enough a man," Benjen answered stubbornly.

    "Perhaps that is so," the old Maester shrugged. "Five-and-ten seems a much smaller number when you have seen four-score more years than that."

    Silence reigned for a moment as the First Ranger tried to see himself as the other man must, but found that he could not, regret clung closer to him than his own shadow. To change the subject he said: "He is only two years older than that, the Dragon King. Do you say he is a boy?"

    "I would not dare hazard a guess for I know him little," Aemon seemed to shrink inside himself ever so slightly, though perhaps it was but a trick of the light. "But this I can say for certain—he has his own challenges as we have ours, and none of us have the luxury of a future that will move as we expect."

    Slowly, almost painfully, Benjen nodded.

    "Best get out there and make sure we and the Seven Kingdoms have a future at all," the Old Bear said, and though his words were grim the tone was resolute, almost cheerful.

    OOC: Well here you go, a look into not only Benjen's character but indirectly Aemon and Jeor's too.
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • @DragonParadox, how long has his army been affected by flux? A week or two?

    Since Azema woud know, why not have her retroactively let Hermetia know, letting her work in the background in the Fungus Forge to make a Cure Disease Mold which we based on the effects of the Heart Tree there, and the mold we attacked Lannisport with?
     
    Takesis said:
    @DragonParadox, how long has his army been affected by flux? A week or two?

    Since Azema woud know, why not have her retroactively let Hermetia know, letting her work in the background in the Fungus Forge to make a Cure Disease Mold which we based on the effects of the Heart Tree there, and the mold we attacked Lannisport with?
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    They have been suffering on a significant scale for a about two weeks or so. As for retroactive fungus forge use that would not really work since the forge was making plant creatures for all this time.
     
    Takesis said:
    @DragonParadox, how long has his army been affected by flux? A week or two?

    Since Azema woud know, why not have her retroactively let Hermetia know, letting her work in the background in the Fungus Forge to make a Cure Disease Mold which we based on the effects of the Heart Tree there, and the mold we attacked Lannisport with?
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    That would be a full research action, not something we could poke around at for a week or two, then come up with a viable solution. Rushing that kind of stuff is how you end up with a Zombie Apocalypse.
     
    DragonParadox said:
    Beneath Black Cloaks ​

    Eighth Day of the Seventh Month 293 AC

    The helmet clanged against stone, the sound shockingly loud in the stillness of the small room. "What the fuck did the North fight for if we're all back to crawling before dragons!" said Benjen Stark, First Ranger of the Night's Watch, youngest son of Rickard Stark lord of Winterfell, and he hated himself for them. He hated that he had lost control before his bothers, he hated that he had spoken of the oaths to kith and kin though he should have none, though he deserved none. Most of all he hated that he sounded pleading.

    Again silence reigned save for the slow drip of melting ice sliding off Benjen's mail and on to the stone floor. The firelight threw wavering shadows onto the faces of all present—Ranger, Commander, and the ancient Maester of the Watch. And he the youngest as ever, a faint shiver of self-depreciating humor offered feeble refuge to a mind in turmoil.

    The Old Bear's expression was stern as he had seen it a thousand times before when chiding one brother or another for failing to uphold their oath in word and deed. He opened his mouth to answer, then to the younger man's surprise he closed it and sighed and shrugged off his black cloak and hung it near the door. "It will be there waiting for me when we are done talking," he explained, then looking towards the First Ranger he added: "You look cold in yours, Ben. Maybe you should leave it by the fire for a while."

    Subtlety was not a word often used to describe Jeor Mormont, not indeed any other of that house, but the message was clear. In this place and for a little while they would speak as men and not as brothers of the Watch.

    Feeling as unbalanced as a stripling boy talking to his father, Benjen did as he was asked.

    "I think I'll keep mine, the cold bites keenest into old bones," the Maester said, his smile deepening the web of lines that crisscrossed his face. "Count it a deed done in spirit."

    A weak shaky laugh passed Benjen's lips, much to his further surprise. He did not think he had it in him.

    "I can't answer why every man in the North rebelled," the Old Bear began. "I can make some fair guesses, but that's neither here nor there. What I can tell you for certain, Ben, is why I would have fought the Mad King if I hadn't already taken the vows. I would have fought because he made a mockery of justice before men and gods, because he proved by his deeds that had not the wits to rule a kennel much less a kingdom."

    "Oh but Rhaegar was the Silver Prince, perfect as you please, and his brother is the bloody Last Hero come again, is he?" again the anger surged to Benjen's lips unbidden like a black bubbling tide.

    "I never met Rhaegar, though we exchanged letters a few times," Maester Aemon replied softly. "He seemed to me a man who lived too often in tales and not in the world that is, looking to history and prophecy for answers and letting the now slip by. In that he appeared no more perfect to me than any other man." His words held not a whisper of rebuke, only kindness. With a sigh he added, "Sometimes I wonder if I should have guessed what passed through his mind to offer some counsel to save him from himself."

    "Lyanna was willing. I knew, I helped her..." Benjen could not believe the words he had just spoken, the secret he had kept for so long from all save Ned. Gods, he had just blurted it out like he was some child brought to task. He opened his mouth to speak but no words came out.

    "Many had though she went willingly," Jeor Mormont replied at length. "But I'd not say she was willing at the end. Think it through, would she had stayed in godsdamned Dorne meek as a dove when news came of the evil that had been done to her father and bother?"

    "I don't..." He could not being himself to say it. He could not say he did not know Lyanna, that he did not trust her, even after all these years. "No, no she wouldn't."

    "The war would have been fought some other way," Aemon interjected, voice just as soft as before but firm for all that. "T'was like a boulder rolling down hill and all the Seven Kingdoms in its path. The only thing that might have been different would have been if the rebel lords would have quarreled among themselves, and mayhap Aerys would have won his bloody victory from the fray. I cannot imagine truly imagine what he would have done then, but you can be sure his vengeance would have been savage, enough to sow the seeds of another rebellion among all right-thinking men. The evils of the war are not yours to bear anymore than they are Lady Lyanna's. You were all as children then, and for that you suffered."

    "I was five-and-ten, near enough a man," Benjen answered stubbornly.

    "Perhaps that is so," the old Maester shrugged. "Five-and-ten seems a much smaller number when you have seen four-score more years than that."

    Silence reigned for a moment as the First Ranger tried to see himself as the other men must, but found that he could not, regret clung closer to him than his own shadow. To change the subject he said: "He is only two years older than that, the Dragon King. Do you say he is a boy?"

    "I would not dare hazard a guess for I know him little," Aemon seemed to shrink inside himself ever so slightly, though perhaps it was but a trick of the light. "But this I can say for certain—he has his own challenges as we have ours, and none of us have the luxury of a future that will move as we expect."

    Slowly, almost painfully, Benjen nodded.

    "Best get out there and make sure we and the Seven Kingdoms have a future at all," the Old Bear said, and though his words were grim the tone was resolute, almost cheerful.

    OOC: Well here you go, a look into not only Benjen's character but indirectly Aemon and Jeor's too.
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    I guess Benjen would prefer to suckle at the Lannister teat?
     
    I rather liked the way we dealt with Tyrosh.

    Some may also argue that their vileness is the result of their culture and upbringing. And that we may want to try to give them one chance to be better. Then let law and justice sort it out.


    ...Why do I sound like a Good outsiders? Damn you all!:p
     
    Snowfire said:
    That's not the point and I'm quite certain you know it. Benjen is trying to bring together two utterly conflicted versions of the world he knows, each built of very deep foundations. Honestly, the result above is better than I'd hoped for from him.
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    Seems to me like he's discontent with accepting help from us. If not from us, help must come from somewhere else.

    "What the fuck did the North fight for if we're all back to crawling before dragons!"

    What are the alternatives to us?
     
    LonelyWolf999 said:
    I kinda love how our brilliant plan is running into the problem that the Lyseni are not, in fact, completely retarded and can recognize Aedon's entire scheme for the dumpster fire that it is.
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    With some elements of Aedon being completely retarded. See his invading army is currently shitting itself to death.


    Goldfish said:
    Seems to me like he's discontent with accepting help from us. If not from us, help must come from somewhere else.

    "What the fuck did the North fight for if we're all back to crawling before dragons!"

    What are the alternatives to us?
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    He doesn't like that they need to beg for help from anyone, much less someone that they rebelled against earlier. In Westeros you are your family so...

    Also
    [X] Plan 'Get your ass moving'
    -[X] Perform false divination about the outcome of an attack of the Silver Serpent ships. Go with 'bad'.
    -[X] Perform false divination for 'how likely is a favorable outcome if he attacks within the next three days'. Go with 'highly'.
    -[X] Look confused and then do an even fancier looking divination. Look excited and say that you saw the false Dragon King and his forces came into some great calamity when they went into Valyria.
    -[X] State that now is the time to strike. Even with his forces as they are, the Dragon Kings are worse.
    -[X] if he needs more reassurance, Wisdom Gaemon is more than willing to pull the trigger to assassinate some of the Dragons Kings Dragons right now as proof of how weakened Viserys is.
     
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    Goldfish said:
    Seems to me like he's discontent with accepting help from us. If not from us, help must come from somewhere else.

    "What the fuck did the North fight for if we're all back to crawling before dragons!"

    What are the alternatives to us?
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    Well it's pretty much the same hatred some in this thread feels for all Lannisters, he blames our whole family for what was done to ours, which while like us he's not the type to let his hatred make him kill children, it do make him much disinclined to deal with us as an ally.
     
    I don't think we should be trying to solve this situation in one update, people. Let's go and have the Fool do something harmless and get Azema to give us the details on the political situation. From there, we can develop a more nuanced plan for this complicated problem.

    Alternatively, as I said, we can follow @Azel's initial plan and impersonate Aedon.
     
    Goldfish said:
    Seems to me like he's discontent with accepting help from us. If not from us, help must come from somewhere else.

    "What the fuck did the North fight for if we're all back to crawling before dragons!"

    What are the alternatives to us?
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    I'm pretty sure he'd rather the North was able to do it by themselves. Which to be fair is what they usually did before, they are pretty isolated from the other kingdoms. If the Stark family hadn't been caught at the wrong time generation-wise (with it's members either too old to pick up magic easily or too young to come out swinging), it'd be possible too.
     
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