- Location
- florida
The problem is people not wanting to farm. Not being unable.
Which is... a problem.
A big one. A fuck huge PR problem. Subsidized farms maybe?
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
-
- Tags
- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
Which is... a problem.
A big one. A fuck huge PR problem. Subsidized farms maybe?
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
They do have some farmers, not enough of them but some, that's why giving them the ritual would have increased their production, that just hold the problem, of it spreading across Westeros and becoming a mess, but better quality tools don't hold that problem.
The problem is that they are getting lots of volunteers for fighting, but no new volunteers for farming, so the farmers working for them who could barely feed them before, now produce not near enough food, there's 2 ways to fix this, 1 get them more farmers, 2 get them better farmers, getting them better tools, make what few farmers they have far more effective.
Because they have too few farmers, not no farmers.
- Location
- florida
Not sure how much better tools will increase productivity. Especially in the short term.
Especially in the very short term.
Edit:
Magic... Exports...
Maybe biologically engineered magic plants? That seems like it could backfire really badly actually. Lets not.
Last edited:
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
It will increase quite a lot after they plant the next time, until then it will just give them more free time, but when they plant the next time, they can loosen the earth much more effectively, which allow them to plant the seeds much better, which mean more of them will succeed in growing, and they can loosen it much faster, which mean 1 farmer can farm more land.
If you look at the modern world, then in term of harvest per acre, we harvest 15 times more wheat than they did in the middle ages, and while far from all of that is better tools, some of it is.
And we can send them food in the short term, that's not a big problem, we would just prefer not having to do it forever, doing it for a year or so more is no big problem.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
Still got some years to go, probably 7-8 years left before winter begin, and 1 year or so more before it becomes utterly unfarmable, if it takes a year for tool improvements to matter, that still give the farmers 6-7 years of massively improved farming before winter comes.
At least if it comes at the same time as in canon.
- Location
- The internet
That's posible, certainly, but it's not a possibility I'd put any money on, given the drastic difference in level of available magic from cannon at this point.
5 IM says we don't have nearly as much time to work as that.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
If it comes earlier, it should also end earlier, we did find out that the reason for a long summer before the long night, is that the Others need to gather power to spread winter, so considering the power summer and winter is getting should be growing equally, they should still need the same amount of prep time, to make the same length of winter.
The Werebear noted the summer was a tainted gift, and there's the whole balance between the old gods and the Others, so if they give less summertime, they should be able to claim less wintertime, unless they manage to destroy the old gods during winter of course.
Last edited:
- Location
- Germany
Their total wintertime in the case they were only opposed by the cycle of nature doesn't matter though.
We'll either defeat them long before Winter would end and reintroduce normal seasons, or they'll defeat us and Bloodraven and try to end the world.
I've been away from this quest for... quite a while, to say the least, so I apologize if that was discussed in the meantime and I didn't catch it because I focused on reading the hundreds of updates, instead of the tens of thousands of discussion-posts in between. (
)Given how warm bodies are the Night Watch's most needed resource, have we considered expanding their recruitment to Essos? Ie, giving criminals in our lands a choice between serving their sentence, and serving at the Wall?
- Location
- United States
Not a bad idea, but we've tried that before. There simply isn't the culture for it, Essosi just think it's another form of slavery.
- Location
- Germany
Issue is that they lack the cultural backround.
Making the crminals much more likely to desert or break oath and making everyone else see it as similar to slavery.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I think it's been brought up once or twice, but never seriously. As bad as many of the current Brothers of the Night Watch are, having been "recruited" as an alternative to death for whatever crimes they may have committed, Westerosi culture is accepting of service at the Wall as a viable, and even honorable pursuit.I've been away from this quest for... quite a while, to say the least, so I apologize if that was discussed in the meantime and I didn't catch it because I focused on reading the hundreds of updates, instead of the tens of thousands of discussion-posts in between. (
Given how warm bodies are the Night Watch's most needed resource, have we considered expanding their recruitment to Essos? Ie, giving criminals in our lands a choice between serving their sentence, and serving at the Wall?
Essosi culture has none of that cultural indoctrination, so a life of service in a frozen wasteland, with few comforts and no hope for change, is just seen as a particularly awful kind of slavery. As a result, Essosi criminals would be much more likely to desert after being inducted into the Night Watch.
EDIT: Faceless'd
- Location
- Germany
I'm not too worried about bodies for the Nightswatch though.
If something big happens we'll hear about it early on though Brynden.
We can be there in minutes, a decent amount of Legionaires in hours.
If something big happens we'll hear about it early on though Brynden.
We can be there in minutes, a decent amount of Legionaires in hours.
- Location
- Noway
Isn't the manpower issues more about the day to day issues than low numbers in an invasion scenario? Right now they have so few men that hey have problems getting enough food, maintaining enough castles day to day, patrol efficiently etc.
We can bail them out when a invasion happens, but right now they dont have enough men to do the daily tasks we need them to do without constant support from us.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Which, really, is why Azel is banking on Mormont picking Option #3, because he realizes that he can't rely on the Lannisters, because they're unreliable and their assistance is contingent on what amounts to a fantasy. They don't recognize the threat the Others pose, nor are they actually capable of meaningfully combating that threat when compared to THE DRAGON REBORN.
It's a case of your messianic reputation outpacing you a bit; everyone who means to align themselves with you or even thinks about it will have a hard time deciding any other option really measures up in the end.
- Location
- Australia
[X] Azel
And then some can I tell ya, I want an excuse to attack The Rock, not because it's Tywin's but because it is just such a target.
And then some can I tell ya, I want an excuse to attack The Rock, not because it's Tywin's but because it is just such a target.
I think desertion would be less of an issue compared to Westerosi criminals simply because Essosi wouldn't know anything about the land and culture. That unknown could act as a fairly good deterrent against desertion.I think it's been brought up once or twice, but never seriously. As bad as many of the current Brothers of the Night Watch are, having been "recruited" as an alternative to death for whatever crimes they may have committed, Westerosi culture is accepting of service at the Wall as a viable, and even honorable pursuit.
Essosi culture has none of that cultural indoctrination, so a life of service in a frozen wasteland, with few comforts and no hope for change, is just seen as a particularly awful kind of slavery. As a result, Essosi criminals would be much more likely to desert after being inducted into the Night Watch.
EDIT: Faceless'd
Though even with all those issues it still seems worth while, in my opinion. Could make it a standing policy to make an offer of service at the Wall to every criminal, possibly with incentives. (Ie, if a criminal agrees to service at the Wall, he can in return name a beneficiary who'll receive a modest sum of money.) Even if it nets the Watch only a small amount of new recruits, that's still recruits they wouldn't otherwise have, and every bit helps.
It's too bad the characters capable of making magical items are already pretty much swamped with work, otherwise it might be worth thinking about making some labor-saving items for the Watch. Everburning lanters (no need to replace/refill light sources, saving resources and time), some equivalent to Collars of Perpetual Attendance (ie, unseen servants that can perform various chores and tasks), that sort of thing.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
Problem is that the Essosi will see it as a form of slavery, and one of the cornerstones in our rule is opposing slavery, being perceived as supporting a form of slavery, will hurt our reputation.
- Location
- United States
It's really not worth the blow to our image. We present ourselves as firmly anti-slavery. The Essosi don't have the cultural context to see the Night's Watch as anything but an institute of slavery. So if we offer choices of "death or basically slavery" that does not do good things for us.
As an alternative we could loan men and women to the Night's Watch. Station them there for a month or two following Jeor's orders, then once their shift is done bring them back home. Jeor gets to use experienced PCs, our PCs get XP and don't have to actually swear to the Night's Watch, everyone's happy.
Also, the everburning lanterns? Those are free for us. We have a bunch of Lesser Phoenixes in our kingdom who can make those with an SLA.
Last edited:
- Location
- United States
Fair point. But we're already loaning people out for specific things. Baby Adventurers were sent to clear out the Nightfort, healers drop by every now and then, Xor was sent to rebuild the castles, etc. I don't think Jeor would say no to the extra help.
- Location
- France
Jeor would say yes, but he wouldn't like it. Remember how annoyed he was when Lord Stark reminded us of how often the Night's Watch had failed at their job in the past? It'll be another humiliation from us, here. Especially as there's no urgent crisis yet!
And the men will hate it too.
And we put in effort to hyping up the Night's Watch and their duties and vows in our post-tree speech, and now you want to undermine that?
No, I think that this is a waste of men (it's years too early to garrison people there. Our forces aren't infinite and we'll be conquering soon) and bad PR with the Night's Watch.
He needs help recruiting, not extra men given on loan.
So we do something to change this perception. Commission some plays and songs, print pamphlets, that sort of thing.
Seriously; you talk like public opinion is some sort of immutable constant of the universe, when it's everything but.
Not to mention that I think the impact on our image is overstated. We're anti-slavery, yes, but unless we somehow only punish crimes with death or fines, chances are that we'll have prisons and quite likely labor sentences, and the public seems reasonably fine with that.
There also doesn't seem to be any backlash against supporting the Watch with supplies, or against the Black Brothers themselves.
Those would be a good starting point, then. The resources and time saved from not having to replace/refill candles, oil lamps, and the like might not be all that much, but every little bit likely helps.