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Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha)

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Silently Watches said:
While I won't stop you from writing tactics, in this case you're en route to the fight and don't know where anybody is or who is fighting whom. That makes battle plans a little harder to design.
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Fair enough.
LancerisDead said:
[X] Winter Hill capes – Truce or not, this is the most powerful gang in the city. Hit them hard, and hit them fast.
-[X]Assess wheter they are attacking the PRT or hostile. If they are:
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Winter Hill is explicitly attacking MS-13, not the PRT.
LancerisDead said:
The briefing they gave us makes it seem as if the fight is happening in a rather tight area. My idea is that Sam goes up against Winter Hill while we (if possible) launch a broad strike and then we focus in neutralizing Cadejo as quickly as possible.

Also, no plan survives contact with the enemy, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't think of tactics that could serve as guidelines.
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kokuenDG said:
Honestly, I think we should go after MS-13 or Cadejo. Though more Cadejo since he's very willing to use lethal force, and we have the best means to subdue him fast and assist the PRT with MS-13.

Though going for MS-13 would help to improve relations between us and the Philly PRT, and if we manage to take them out that's one of the major gangs taken care of.
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Well, we need to figure out what members of the Protectorate, MS-13, and Winter Hill will get drawn into a Recursion Field. That'd be the one write-in that's sensible at this time: Tell the heroes who's about to get sucked up.
After that, I'd like to focus on getting Cadejo focused on us. A Lethal Solar Wrath is a big beam with lots of radiation, and unless I'm forgetting something, not all of MS-13's capes have Kill Orders. We need to hit Cadejo, and only Cadejo.
Scope said:
I wouldn't suggest going after Cadejo until after Taylor learns Telekinesis.
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Don't need it. Lethal Solar Wrath=broken teeth and claws.
 
Always Late said:
Fair enough.

Winter Hill is explicitly attacking MS-13, not the PRT.


Well, we need to figure out what members of the Protectorate, MS-13, and Winter Hill will get drawn into a Recursion Field. That'd be the one write-in that's sensible at this time: Tell the heroes who's about to get sucked up.
After that, I'd like to focus on getting Cadejo focused on us. A Lethal Solar Wrath is a big beam with lots of radiation, and unless I'm forgetting something, not all of MS-13's capes have Kill Orders. We need to hit Cadejo, and only Cadejo.

Don't need it. Lethal Solar Wrath=broken teeth and claws.
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Solar Wrath would kill the people around him as well. The point of Telekinesis is to be able to isolate him him others. Recursion Field definitely helps limits things to only Parahumans, but I don't think want all said Parahumans dead.
 
Always Late said:
Well, we need to figure out what members of the Protectorate, MS-13, and Winter Hill will get drawn into a Recursion Field. That'd be the one write-in that's sensible at this time: Tell the heroes who's about to get sucked up.
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I'll go ahead and answer this. All three Protectorate members (Chevalier, Sere, and Miss Militia) will go in. Cadejo we already know goes in. Jotunn, Cailleach, and Solaire will also get sucked in. Honestly, the only one who's left out is Pounce.
 
Always Late said:
Well, we need to figure out what members of the Protectorate, MS-13, and Winter Hill will get drawn into a Recursion Field. That'd be the one write-in that's sensible at this time: Tell the heroes who's about to get sucked up.
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Checking the FAQ, all of the capes mentioned seem to get sucked in. However, unless all the mooks have Linker Cores, the PRT troopers would still have to deal with a quite a lot of opposition, and that without getting Winter Hill involved.
Add to that that MS-13 are attacking a PRT transport that could be carrying an unknown cape that may or may not get pulled into the field leaving a bunch of unpowered people against a cape of unknown abilities has a non-zero chance, and throwing Recursion Field stops sounding like a great idea.

What I'm suggesting is that we collaborate with Winter Hill, throw a non-lethal Solar Wrath as an opener if enough members of MS-13 are toghether, and that we engage and neutralize Cadejo as quickly as possible with a barrage of targeted Flare Shooters to force him to reform, then either Samantha or us takes him down for good.
 
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Guys how about a high altitude insertion with flare shooter salvo on the ms13 mooks? Them while everyone is reeling from that warn off winter Hill that if they dont withdraw they will be deemed in violation of the truce. Once their gone drop recuision feild and level EVERYTHING
 
If we wind up going against Cadejo, might I suggest a lethal Flare Shooter? That seems to avoid the potential collateral damage issue using Solar Wrath has, and will probably get the job done.
 
With the Truce mentioned and the amount of threats we found in the storm drain, I think we should leave the Winter Hill group alone unless they start attacking the PRT too. We could use their help down there.

We should focus on MS-13 as they are the ones dirrectly attaching the PRT at the moment. The question is if we have any way to deal with Cadejo directly. If so, I say it is pay back time. If not, we should clear out his mooks while the others hold him off.
 
Scope said:
Solar Wrath would kill the people around him as well. The point of Telekinesis is to be able to isolate him him others. Recursion Field definitely helps limits things to only Parahumans, but I don't think want all said Parahumans dead.
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I think you need to re-read the E88 fight for how big Solar Wrath is.
We wouldn't be killing everyone in RF.
Silently Watches said:
I'll go ahead and answer this. All three Protectorate members (Chevalier, Sere, and Miss Militia) will go in. Cadejo we already know goes in. Jotunn, Cailleach, and Solaire will also get sucked in. Honestly, the only one who's left out is Pounce.
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Hm...
LancerisDead said:
Add to that that MS-13 are attacking a PRT transport that could be carrying an unknown cape that may or may not get pulled into the field leaving a bunch of unpowered people against a cape of unknown abilities has a non-zero chance, and throwing Recursion Field stops sounding like a great idea.
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How do you know there's an unknown cape involved?
Silversun17 said:
warn off winter Hill that if they dont withdraw they will be deemed in violation of the truce
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But they aren't. They're just attacking the people who are, which they don't have to. If anything, they're helping the heroes.
 
Always Late said:
I think you need to re-read the E88 fight for how big Solar Wrath is.
We wouldn't be killing everyone in RF.
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Because Cadejo will be perfectly compliant with our wishes to stay at a certain distance away from others? This isn't a situation where Cadejo is holding a building hostage and attempting to fortify his position while being completely ignorant about Calamity Witch's capabilities.

Or that we would be unable to check if Cadejo is actually dead because we would need to drop the Recursion Field nigh immediately if we don't want our allies or the people we don't want dead to suffer from radiation poisoning?
 
We already tried Solar Wrath on Cadejo last time, so we know one big blast won't do too much against his ghost dogs. If we choose to go after him rather then his mooks I say we Bring the Rain.

We fly up above those mutts and fire the Flare Shooters, we fire ALL the Flare Shooter. Fire as many as we can as fast as we can at ever part of those dogs we can target. And if nonlethal doesn't work? We dial up the power until that dog goes down or runs with his tails between his legs.

Edit: I don't suppose we've made any cartridges yet to help power this mega spam?
 
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Always Late said:
How do you know there's an unknown cape involved?
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...An educated guess. :p

But really, it's a PRT transport under attack of a cape-affiliated gang, they are probably not carrying normals as that would be the work of the police. Sure, I may be wrong, but when you stop and think, is it really necessary to throw Recursion Field? Not to mention, there is Protectorate backup incoming which RF might interfere with, even if they know about it.

That said, @Silently Watches, would Miss Militia get dragged into RF? It's a little hard to figure out if she would be affected.
 
Scope said:
Because Cadejo will be perfectly compliant with our wishes to stay at a certain distance away from others? This isn't a situation where Cadejo is holding a building hostage and attempting to fortify his position while being completely ignorant about Calamity Witch's capabilities.

Or that we would be unable to check if Cadejo is actually dead because we would need to drop the Recursion Field nigh immediately if we don't want our allies or the people we don't want dead to suffer from radiation poisoning?
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1. You're assuming the other people in this situation are incapable of moving.
2. Also, Cadejo is ignorant of what we can do. Last time, we were ineffective. Now, he'll assume the same will happen because he's like Lung: Arrogant.
3. Since when have I claimed that SW would kill him? By breaking his teeth and claws, he can't hurt anybody until he changed back to human, then dog-ghost. Thus, at worst he runs away from the fight. This is all based on SW's debrief from the last time we fought the guy.
4. Again, the spread of the radiation is not that big. Please re-read the E88 section before commenting again, and you'll see that nobody on our side had radiation poisoning.
Jetsmillion said:
We already tried Nonlethal Solar Wrath on Cadejo last time, so we know one nonlethal blast won't do too much against his ghost dogs.
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FTFY. Lethal bs. nonlethal, that was in the debrief.
LancerisDead said:
But really, it's a PRT transport under attack of a cape-affiliated gang, they are probably not carrying normals as that would be the work of the police. Sure, I may be wrong, but when you stop and think, is it really necessary to throw Recursion Field?
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Yes.
Because we're letting our side cut loose without any regard for collateral damage, for one.
 
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Honestly, if we shoot Cadejo with a lethal Solar Wrath and break his teeth and claws, he has to eventually change back into human form to reform it so once he does we can hit him with a Temporal sludge and take him down from there.
 
I suppose a Lethal Solar Wrath would work. The problem is his ghost dogs are likely already engaging the hero's and Winter Hill, so it would be difficult to get a clear shot. With Flare Shooters we can use the Homing Bullets to avoid 'friendly' targets. And if nonlethal bullets don't do enough to his claws and fangs, we can easily switch over to lethal round and continue to spam them.
 
kokuenDG said:
Honestly, if we shoot Cadejo with a lethal Solar Wrath and break his teeth and claws, he has to eventually change back into human form to reform it so once he does we can hit him with a Temporal sludge and take him down from there.
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While there is a possibility his pack form can out-run WAS's ability to cover,
Jetsmillion said:
I suppose a Lethal Solar Wrath would work. The problem is his ghost dogs are likely already engaging the hero's and Winter Hill, so it would be difficult to get a clear shot. With Flare Shooters we can use the Homing Bullets to avoid 'friendly' targets. And if nonlethal bullets don't do enough to his claws and fangs, we can easily switch over to lethal round and continue to spam them.
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Cadejo is a melee-only fighter with discount!Siberian claws and teeth. If he's already in melee, the Protectorate's probably already dead or out of the fight. Also, Nonlethal won't do anything, that's why we got fucked with Vista. Well, that and not flying with her.

Actually, that's a great point: We should have Samantha act as a reactionary reserve: Watch on WAS for any of Cadejo's dogs sneaking up on people, and teleport them out of harms way!
 
[X] MS-13 mooks – They're the ones who have the PRT pinned down, after all.

If Cadejo is here, he's either here for his mooks or whatever's in the transport. If he wants it, he can't be allowed to get it. Make sure whatever it is stays nice and secure, then go after him.
 
Actually, out of curiosity, what is our max firing rate with Flare Shooter? I doubt we could get to Touhou levels of bullet hell, but could we do some heavy area saturation if we really concentrated on it?

P.S. If you don't know what Touhou levels of bullet hell it, here is a cool fan made video
 
Always Late said:
1. You're assuming the other people in this situation are incapable of moving.
2. Also, Cadejo is ignorant of what we can do. Last time, we were ineffective. Now, he'll assume the same will happen because he's like Lung: Arrogant.
3. Since when have I claimed that SW would kill him? By breaking his teeth and claws, he can't hurt anybody until he changed back to human, then dog-ghost. Thus, at worst he runs away from the fight. This is all based on SW's debrief from the last time we fought the guy.
4. Again, the spread of the radiation is not that big. Please re-read the E88 section before commenting again, and you'll see that nobody on our side had radiation poisoning.
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1. You are assuming Cadejo is incapable of responding to others or betting that his ghost dog forms is going to all chase one target and be travel together as one nice easy target.
2. You are going under the assumption that the fact that Taylor melted the E88 was completely suppressed. At best, you can presume that he will think Taylor would use the same spell with non-lethal settings, but I wouldn't. Who knows, maybe you are right and he thinks the same lethal spell used on the E88 was the non-lethal version that was used on him and thinks he has some kind of advantage the E88 didn't have when it comes to power interactions.
3. I'll concede this one. Because dead or incapacitated doesn't matter to me and this is just getting into inconsequential details.
4. You should reread that one yourself and see how fast Taylor drops the Recursion Field and the distance everyone else had from the blast zone, they certainly didn't get close or hang around it for an extended period of time. Anyways, that situation does not apply here where everyone will be in the middle of exchanging blows. Maybe you can some how manage to lure ALL of Cadejo and take him out in one fell swoop, or would you be just satisfied with getting one or two of them before the rest of him wises up and avoids Taylor.

Point is, Telekinesis makes gathering up his split form so much easier and whatever plan made to deal with Cadejo offensively is going to be more trouble than it is worth without it.
 
Scope said:
1. You are assuming Cadejo is incapable of responding to others or betting that his ghost dog forms is going to all chase one target and be travel together as one nice easy target.
2. You are going under the assumption that the fact that Taylor melted the E88 was completely suppressed. At best, you can presume that he will think Taylor would use the same spell with non-lethal settings, but I wouldn't. Who knows, maybe you are right and he thinks the same lethal spell used on the E88 was the non-lethal version that was used on him and thinks he has some kind of advantage the E88 didn't have when it comes to power interactions.
3. I'll concede this one. Because dead or incapacitated doesn't matter to me and this is just getting into inconsequential details.
4. You should reread that one yourself and see how fast Taylor drops the Recursion Field and the distance everyone else had from the blast zone, they certainly didn't get close or hang around it for an extended period of time. Anyways, that situation does not apply here where everyone will be in the middle of exchanging blows. Maybe you can some how manage to lure ALL of Cadejo and take him out in one fell swoop, or would you be just satisfied with getting one or two of them before the rest of him wises up and avoids Taylor.

Point is, Telekinesis makes gathering up his split form so much easier and whatever plan made to deal with Cadejo offensively is going to be more trouble than it is worth without it.
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1+2. Hey, if Cadejo decides he does't want to find out if his form can take a Nuke Beam, that is absolutely a good thing. That's the minimum I'm hoping for: Cadejo no longer contributes to the fight. Whether its dead, unconscious, or retreating, it's all Just As Planned.
4.1. I previously mentioned what Cadejo in melee means for the fight.
4.1 Your opinion has been noted and contested. You think that without TK, no plan will work. I think that there is a workable plan based on SW's feedback from the last fight.

I think we've both stated and rebutted each side enough to let people draw their own conclusions. Do you think this is a good place to let it rest, or would you like to make one last response to any of what I've said above?
 
Speed and accuraccy are also two big factors: Solar Wrath is effective because it has a big fuck-off range and radius, but it takes a while to load and works better when you have a lot of targets grouped together that you want to cease being a problem, not to mention the lethal radiation level it releases; even if we are in RF that doesn't make any of our allies immune to radiation like us.
Charge and recovering time also matters, Solar Wrath takes a while to load and Cadejo won't die from it, he will simply reform, we want to be able to take him down immediately after that.
Flare Shooter is just simply a better choice: it's loading time is relatively quick, it's much more precise in that it will allow us to harm Cadejo whitout unnecesary risks and will allow us to keep firing until he dies.
 
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Like SW said we haven't arrived so we have no idea what the battlefield looks like. How about we focus on the mooks and agree that of we get a shot at Cadejo we use lethal flare shooter, and once we get there if we get a chance we use lethal Solar Flare.
 
Hmmm... My first question, how would the cape forces be broken down by dropping a recursion field over the whole battlefield?

Because I see surprise Solar Wrath (non-lethal, to take out the majority of the mooks, and hopefully a chunk of the capes, from ANY gang's side) + Recursion Field over the battlefield to let the PRT clean up the rest of the mooks, while the Protectorate focuses purely on the capes, not having to worry about harming the mooks (after quickly letting the PRT/Protectorate know we're dropping the field so they're not caught off guard and can capitalize on the gang's surprise, IIRC MM has already seen the field, so should be easy to get the plan across quickly), as a valid and effective battle tactic.

That only works if only 1 or 2 gang capes are left behind, along with a Protectorate cape or two to handle them, though having Sam outside the field (have her stay outside the radius of the field until after it's cast...would that work, or would she end up in the field when she entered it's radius?) could work to handle that if she wouldn't be too outnumbered...


*edit- Odd, I refresh the page, have a few new posts, write my post up and post it, and a whole page and a half of new posts show up, including one by SW answering the main question of this post....from a few hours ago...wtf?
 
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edale said:
*edit- Odd, I refresh the page, have a few new posts, write my post up and post it, and a whole page and a half of new posts show up, including one by SW answering the main question of this post....from a few hours ago...wtf?
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Welcome to SV. Work in progress!
edale said:
That only works if only 1 or 2 gang capes are left behind
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Sounds like its just mooks with guns. Against assault rifles and foam-sprayers, which are often underestimated but are better than guns, the gang's basically fucked.
 
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