Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Mathilde just solved two foundational mysteries of the colleges, and the very idea that she should be rewarded beyond getting to see the looks on the college patriarchs and matriarchs faces completely blindsided her.
That's a rare sort of wizard and you most definitely do not want to stop them from whatever it is they are doing.
 
Perhaps, but I want Winged Lancers. Personal preference.
Mathilde doesn't really have a lot of connections with the Winged Lancers, it was just a single battle. If we make a mass apparition charge spell I'd rather it be more connected to Mathilde. We have more of a connection with demigryphs and the like. If we spent more time in Kislev, I guess it'd be fine. But it just doesn't seem earned to me.

I'm pretty sure the main watsonian reason we aren't getting CF offers for our time is that we are gainfully employed and aren't CF negative. In the context of the Colleges, before we became LM, we were an explorer and practical researcher with a consistently high status day job, not an enchanter, crafter or troubleshooter. We only started doing quid pro quo odd jobs in the context of favors at the highest echelon, above the stuff covered by fungible CF.
Boney's said something similar to that. Right now Mathilde is doing work that benefits the Empire and Colleges, so there's not a point to sending her requests like that. It's probably not strictly about having negative College Favor.

If Mathilde wasn't doing stuff already very much in the interests of the Empire and the Colleges, that would be the mechanism I'd be using to dangle plot hooks in front of the thread.

Mathilde just solved two foundational mysteries of the colleges, and the very idea that she should be rewarded beyond getting to see the looks on the college patriarchs and matriarchs faces completely blindsided her.
That's a rare sort of wizard and you most definitely do not want to stop them from whatever it is they are doing.
It didn't surprise Mathilde. The Magister Patriarchs and Matriarchs were busy pondering their orbs while Mathilde was thinking about what she wanted in exchange for the breakthrough. The thread wasn't very surprised by it either, there had been theories about it breaking the College Favor economy.

Each of them is now completely occupied with exploring their Winds under conditions that are normally always needed elsewhere, or flipping through your book on the subject of Aethyric Vitae, than they are with continuing the actual meeting, giving you a moment to think. The normal flow of this sort of thing would next go to... well, not framed as something quite as crass as a reward, but more along the lines of an academic grant. What material assistance could the Colleges give to continue the sort of investigations that gave rise to this advancement in understanding?
 
@Boney : I had some thoughts regarding your musings on the potential limitations and problems with the Staff of Mistery and spamming Battle Magics.

Thus far, in every case where we've used Battle Magics, it's only ever been singular and focused. In other words, we would cast one spell at the right place and time, and maintaining that spell for as long as it is most useful takes up a significant length of the battle itself. We didn't cast Miasma repeatedly and often against an entire army, we cast it once on a key enemy formation until that formation was dead. In a more hectic and chaotic battle, I could maybe see us casting it briefly and repeatedly against very small groups of enemies that we would teleport into and then cut down with our sword before moving on to the next one, but that frankly constitutes Battle Magic being cast down at very small scale in a more niche circumstance.

If we were to invent more fog/mist-based Battle Magic, I imagine the limitations would be several-fold before the Staff itself became the bottleneck (or lack of one). Creating a fog-bank of poison-gas would obviously take time to generate the fog bank and spread it to where it needs to go, and then take more time for the poison to debilitate and kill the targets. As such, the Staff wouldn't let Mathilde spam the spell at all, since the spell itself would take focus and time to be effective in the first place.

Any truly fast fog/mist based Battle Magic spell would have to be very limited in what it could do by its very nature--sure, maybe you could create a huge fog bank to obscure your army from view in a pinch, but that's all it could do, since if it did damage you'd have to be very careful about where it's placed and the possibility of friendly troops wandering into it. If it allows friendly troops to see through it but not enemies, it'd take time to spread to an effective size and need to be maintained for a length of time for it to make a difference on the battlefield. If it confused and disoriented the enemies within the fog bank, it would need to be spread and maintained for a length of time for it to have a meaningful impact.

In short, the limitation of the Staff of Mistery of being limited to fog/mist spells (and the reasonable levels of power of Battle Magic as opposed to Cataclysm-level spells) should serve, along with QM discretion, to be a sufficiently limiting factor before the staff reducing the risks of casting such Battle Magic becomes something abusive. Fog/mist spells seem to be innately effective over time and with concentration rather than one-off magical artillery blasts, so spamming them would be self-defeating.
 
It didn't surprise Mathilde. The Magister Patriarchs and Matriarchs were busy pondering their orbs while Mathilde was thinking about what she wanted in exchange for the breakthrough. The thread wasn't very surprised by it either, there had been theories about it breaking the College Favor economy.
Oh we expected college favour, some even thought of breaking the favour economy.
But when the reward was "ok, what do you want", there was a heavy undercurrent of "oh, right, reward, wat a moment." in the thread.
We did it mainly just to do it, the reward, especially size of it, was not really the driving force there.
 
and the very idea that she should be rewarded beyond getting to see the looks on the college patriarchs and matriarchs faces completely blindsided her.
That's not even a little bit true. Besides the fact that it's normal for Mathilde to receive rewards for academic accomplishments, through CF, she outright says in the update that the normal flow of this sort of thing is to get a reward after showing off the discovery.

EDIT:
Oh we expected college favour, some even thought of breaking the favour economy.
But when the reward was "ok, what do you want", there was a heavy undercurrent of "oh, right, reward, wat a moment." in the thread.
We did it mainly just to do it, the reward, especially size of it, was not really the driving force there.
That's at most a player issue, not a Mathilde issue.
 
A marriage alliance between a goat fief and a barely reclaimed hold wouldn't have bound the two empires particularly more tightly.

It can mean quite a lot when the people involved would like it to mean quite a lot. Just ask Queen Mary of Denmark.

@Boney : I had some thoughts regarding your musings on the potential limitations and problems with the Staff of Mistery and spamming Battle Magics.

You've got a point here. The musings were based on that discount being applied to every kind of existing battle magic, rather than just ones that could fit the theming and limitations of mist-based magic. I'm still not going to completely rule it out in case someone gets particularly creative, but the inherent limitations of magics based on something inherently slow and intangible might (might!) prevent it from ever becoming a problem.
 
So one thing I am wondering, the reclaiming of K8P probably has been immortalized in artwork and poetry by this point, I am curious as to how Mathilde is depicted in these.

Like for example, I can imagine that our activation of the Death Mountain is made to look like Mathilde doing some big ritual, as most poets and artists probably don't understand the process beyond "it is magic!!"
 
We've been told we can pay (either in. AV or with our runesmith boon) to have Runesmiths sit down with the Colleges and try to hammer out a reciprocal arrangement, again banking on Mathildes own rep to get the ball rolling. There was a vote to try that on our last purchase turn, in fact. It failed to get enough voter support.
Huh that actually sounds like really good idea. Leveraging our achivements to create a lasting agreement between Collages and Runesmiths would burnish our good name and more importantly strenghten the collage before the coming of new Everchosen.

Also harder to delegilimize the Collages if there are Dwarves in the wings ready to ignore it.
 
You've got a point here. The musings were based on that discount being applied to every kind of existing battle magic, rather than just ones that could fit the theming and limitations of mist-based magic. I'm still not going to completely rule it out in case someone gets particularly creative, but the inherent limitations of magics based on something inherently slow and intangible might (might!) prevent it from ever becoming a problem.
Not exactly sure why, but this gave me a very not-so-creative spell idea:

Mistifying Transformation: Temporarily turns the target into mist.

That's it. That's all the spell does. It is horrifyingly lethal.
The first stop is perhaps not the most important discovery, but it's certainly the most impressive. The Battle Altar named Sylphic Wrath is clearly based on the design of the steam tanks, but instead of a turret, it is topped by a ball with two protruding nozzles - a horizontal sheirripile, a very early demonstration of steam principles that spins when the water inside it is heated. Two long cords interwoven with metal extend from the nozzles, and you presume that when the ball is moving at speed, the cords would strike anyone unfortunate enough to be within several yards of the altar. That would be ordinarily rather painful, but this being a Battle Altar, the cords would be delivering a magical payload. "It's a variation upon Law of Form that was never able to be scaled down or delivered at range," one of the Gold Order researchers explains to you, "but instead of steel, it gives the material properties of quicksilver - only for a couple of seconds, but that's enough. The spell turned out to be surprisingly compatible with our adaptation of the transmission method the Skaven whip used, too."

You consider that. "That would render any armour and weapons struck completely useless."

"Ah, yes, that would be correct, but another way it differs from Law of Form is that its effects are not limited to inanimate objects. It's yet to be trialed in combat, but it's expected to be as effective as Final Transmutation for a fraction of the investment of effort or Chamon."

You're not entirely sure what state someone would be in after their body was partly or entirely converted to liquid for several seconds, but the idea makes for a series of horrific mental images.
Mechanics-wise, this would be an attempt to create a dumb, brute-force kill spell, making it about as Ulgu as throwing a brick through a window. Yet, it's also a rather Mathilde-ian spell - all that cunning elegance often used to personally smack her enemies with a sword. I wouldn't be surprised if this had several limitations and/or required battle magic levels of force to make work, yet I suspect it would be in the realm of reasonable possibility.

Now, you might ask what the practical use-case of this spell even is, especially for Mathilde herself, since she has Branulhune. To which I will answer by doing the following: *throws down smoke pellet, runs away*
 
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Not exactly sure why, but this gave me a very not-so-creative spell idea:

Mistifying Transformation: Temporarily turns the target into mist.

That's it. That's all the spell does. It is horrifyingly lethal.

Mechanics-wise, this would be an attempt to create a dumb, brute-force kill spell, making it about as Ulgu as throwing a brick through a window. Yet, it's also a rather Mathilde-ian spell - all that cunning elegance often used to personally smack her enemies with a sword. I wouldn't be surprised if this had several limitations and/or required battle magic levels of force to make work, yet I suspect it would be in the realm of reasonable possibility.

Now, you might ask what the practical use-case of this spell even is, especially for Mathilde herself, since she has Branulhune. To which I will answer by doing the following: *throws down smoke pellet, runs away*
That sounds like it might end up being as hard as Final Transmutation (or maybe harder because Ulgu isn't associated with transmutation?), but it might be possible. The biggest obstacle to us making the "Dispersed Location" spell in the Approved Spells threadmark is that you're not guaranteed the whole 'turn back into a person' part:

Dispersed Location (needs better name): Probably Fiendishly Complex. Upon casting, the wizard blankets the area with a mist (noticeable, but not significantly hindering vision), and merges with it. While merged, the wizard is insubstantial and undetectable by mundane senses. If attacked with area-of-affect magic, or significant winds, the wizard takes full damage with no defense. At any time, the wizard may re-form anywhere inside the mist, ending the spell.
Might have a Battle Magic version which can only be cast while in a fog, but allows multiple reform/dispersals over a duration.
Viable, but immensely risky to try to create, since there'd be no way to test the 'turn back into a person' part of the spell except by turning yourself into mist and hoping for the best.
...So trying to turn someone else to mist and not caring about them coming back sounds plausible.
 
That sounds like it might end up being as hard as Final Transmutation (or maybe harder because Ulgu isn't associated with transmutation?), but it might be possible. The biggest obstacle to us making the "Dispersed Location" spell in the Approved Spells threadmark is that you're not guaranteed the whole 'turn back into a person' part:


...So trying to turn someone else to mist and not caring about them coming back sounds plausible.
Ulgu is the wind of transitions, though, so a mist-style Final Transmutation might be possible. It's still a lot of Ulgu and concentration to kill one target, though.
 
Framing the "loremaster at large" arc as "odd jobs" really undersells it—it would have been an arc about extending K8P's and Belegar's political influence amongst the Karaz Ankor by earning favours and political capital, so that he could manoeuvre into a position to challenge the High King on his policies, possibly even engineering a situation where he becomes the primary candidate for being the next High King.
I undersell nothing - the update to update work would still be odd jobs - for the purpose of "what is boney writing", odd jobs is an accurate description, and I was speaking solely to the objection that Boney would not want to write odd jobs, which he explicitly offered to write.

Meanwhile, in the rest of my post, I reiterated that the thread would not vote for odd jobs with no greater goal behind it anyways. Odd jobs for CF or odd jobs for AV or anything - if we didn't have an end goal behind accruing those resources, we just wouldn't do it, so there's no meaningful distinction. Loremaster At Large came with a greater purpose built in, but that doesn't change that the instrument used to achieve it is Mathilde working odd jobs.

Just like we did when spinning up the Waystone project, the next time we need something from the colleges that we can't just spend our existing CF to get, we'll probably do odd jobs to directly get the thing we want. Mathilde can, has, and will continue to do favor trading, this has always been part of the quest.
 
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Ulgu is the wind of transitions, though, so a mist-style Final Transmutation might be possible. It's still a lot of Ulgu and concentration to kill one target, though.
Transitioning someone from life to death is easier than transitioning someone from flesh to mist, and Ulgu already has Penumbral Pendulum.

The problem here is in the abuse of the word 'transition' when this spell idea is solidly in the realm of transmutation. You could make an anti-hero Ulgu spell, but it would ideally be based on themes and ideas more in line with Ulgu. Specifically the nastier, more lethal side of Ulgu, so probably something to do with shadows and morale instead of fog.

One idea is to form a guillotine out of the target's own fear and grief (based on Okkam's Mindrazor and Dance of Despair), so roll Leadership save or die. (Though the problem with this idea is that the guillotine hasn't been invented yet. Maybe something about the Sword of Damocles can be substituted in?)

EDIT: Also I want to say that I like how Okkam's Mindrazor is a play on "fear is the mind-killer".
 
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WFRP 2e: Shades of Empire, pages 69-70
Sample Location: The Hut in the Hedge The Hut in the Hedge is an example residence of a Hedgewise. Although its given location is in Wissenland, it could be relocated to any part of the Empire without revision.

[...]

2. Herb Garden
The Hedgewise's three apprentices tend the herb garden, and they are often found there pulling weeds, or watering the plants during drier days. The small plots host a wide variety of herbs, spices, fruits, and vegetables, and the conflicting odours can be overpowering on hot days. A small shrine lies undisturbed in the northern corner of the garden; a featureless feminine statue of Halétha rises from the overgrown weeds there, its slender arms flung high above its head.
What is a statue of Haletha doing in Wissenland?

EDIT:
4. Kitchen
The main room in the hut, called the kitchen by the Hedgewise, is dominated by a large cooking area surrounding a central fireplace. Dozens of old pots and pans line the walls, hanging alongside dried plants and cured animals of all kinds. The kitchen has two glassless windows with heavy, wooden shutters to block out the cold. Beside the eastern window, a large rocking chair sits beside a table piled high with worn recipe books and boxes of dried tabac. The Hedgewise— when not walking the forest, or grumbling at his apprentices, or visiting clients and friends—is most often found here, mulling over new combinations of ingredients for new, more potent potions and elixirs.
5. Bedroom
Less a room, and more a section of the kitchen (Area 4) cordoned off by hanging leather curtains, the bedroom is where the Hedgewise sleeps and keeps the majority of his books. A tall bookcase guards dozens of tomes brimming with fascinating lore on matters botanical, zoological, historical, and more. Yet more books lie in piles beside the Hedgewise's bed, most with folded page-corners or leafs used as bookmarks.
How does a Hedgewise acquire so many books?

EDIT2: Pages 70-71
7. Cellar
Under a warped hatch set against the wall of the hut in the courtyard (Area 1), a worn, stone staircase leads down to a damp cellar full of mould, insects, and potion ingredients requiring cold storage. Behind a cluster of old barrels filled with rainwater caught when Morrslieb was full, a loose stone can be removed granting access to a latch for a secret door leading to a Hedgehole (Area 8).

8. Hedgehole
As well as maintaining 3 Hedgeholes in the forest, the Hedgewise has a small room not more than four feet by six hidden behind a secret door in the cellar (Area 7). Within, it is pokey and uncomfortable, with a chair, bedding, a cask of ale doubling as a table, and a cabinet filled with books and dried food. Although it has not been used in three years, the Hedgewise ensures it is dust-free and ready, just in case.
More books, and apparently the Hedgewise use Morrslieb water.
 
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Transitioning someone from life to death is easier than transitioning someone from flesh to mist, and Ulgu already has Penumbral Pendulum.

The problem here is in the abuse of the word 'transition' when this spell idea is solidly in the realm of transmutation. You could make an anti-hero Ulgu spell, but it would ideally be based on themes and ideas more in line with Ulgu. Specifically the nastier, more lethal side of Ulgu, so probably something to do with shadows and morale instead of fog.

One idea is to form a guillotine out of the target's own fear and grief (based on Okkam's Mindrazor and Dance of Despair), so roll Leadership save or die. (Though the problem with this idea is that the guillotine hasn't been invented yet. Maybe something about the Sword of Damocles can be substituted in?)

EDIT: Also I want to say that I like how Okkam's Mindrazor is a play on "fear is the mind-killer".
I mean, the Winds in general are pretty flexible. Penumbral Pendulum is a swinging guillotine that is infinitely sharp and huge in size, slicing a swathe through a large target or a formation of infantry (or cavalry). A mid-level spell has the user create a horse made out of shadows that travels at the speed of dawn and dusk. And that's Ulgu.

Ghyran has a spell where the caster generates a mobile throne. Hysh has a spell that entraps people in a giant net of light.

So an Ulgu spell that transforms the target into mist doesn't seem so implausible when it can already transform people into shadows. The tricky bit is making the transformation lethal. It could be something along the lines of "transform the target into mist, wait for the mist to scatter from wind, then undo the transformation, and bam the target is dead", making it a worse and possibly conditional version of Final Transmutation, but I imagine that much could be done (even if it isn't terribly practical).
 
I mean, the Winds in general are pretty flexible. Penumbral Pendulum is a swinging guillotine that is infinitely sharp and huge in size, slicing a swathe through a large target or a formation of infantry (or cavalry). A mid-level spell has the user create a horse made out of shadows that travels at the speed of dawn and dusk. And that's Ulgu.

Ghyran has a spell where the caster generates a mobile throne. Hysh has a spell that entraps people in a giant net of light.

So an Ulgu spell that transforms the target into mist doesn't seem so implausible when it can already transform people into shadows. The tricky bit is making the transformation lethal. It could be something along the lines of "transform the target into mist, wait for the mist to scatter from wind, then undo the transformation, and bam the target is dead", making it a worse and possibly conditional version of Final Transmutation, but I imagine that much could be done (even if it isn't terribly practical).
Uncertainty principle. You don't know if someone who is lost to sight in mist is alive or dead until they are removed from it. If they just so happen to be removed from it via dropping them into the border of a liminal space, welp.


Or you could be boring and code an IFFed Throttle effect into it, maybe with a Substance of Shadow to vanish them I guess.


Actually turning people into mist may be a step or seven too far. Pulling a Melkoth and misdirecting may be more within reach.
 
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Uncertainty principle. You don't know if someone who is lost to sight in mist is alive or dead until they are removed from it. If they just so happen to be removed from it via dropping them into the border of a liminal space, welp.


Or you could be boring and code an IFFed Throttle effect into it, maybe with a Substance of Shadow to vanish them I guess.


Actually turning people into mist may be a step or seven too far. Pulling a Melkoth and misdirecting may be more within reach.
I think the likely way for that to go is a more Stephen King style fog bank. It sweeps in over a group, and when it disperses some are just gone. No trace, or perhaps some tattered clothing left behind, but no predictable pattern, no sign of what happened, a person could have vanished into the mist from a foot in front of you and you'd see or hear nothing from them. Do you see faces in the swirling fog? Distant figures? Are you really hearing that distant pained wail or is it your imagination? Why can't you shake the feeling that your buddy who got eaten by this spell last week is back with you, so close you could touch him?

Almost certainly not something Mathilde would be able to make, and probably based on a combination of the fear/uncertainty of the unknown and maybe the danger of navigation at sea through fog, of the many vessels that sailed off and vanished forever.
 
You could come up with a complex metaphysical reason about why you'd be able to transmute people into a suspension of water droplets.

Or you could embrace that Rita Repulsa energy, cackle maniacally, and say "You will be Mist".
 
I like the "generate a big fog bank that completely disorientates and confuses foes inside of it, who cannot readily tell friend from foe or where they are" idea, since it's an encapsulation of the Fog of War into spell form.

Or you could embrace that Rita Repulsa energy, cackle maniacally, and say "You will be Mist".
Mathilde drawing from the Mystical aspect of puns to make spells work would probably test Eike's poker face fiercely.
 
I think the likely way for that to go is a more Stephen King style fog bank. It sweeps in over a group, and when it disperses some are just gone. No trace, or perhaps some tattered clothing left behind, but no predictable pattern, no sign of what happened, a person could have vanished into the mist from a foot in front of you and you'd see or hear nothing from them. Do you see faces in the swirling fog? Distant figures? Are you really hearing that distant pained wail or is it your imagination? Why can't you shake the feeling that your buddy who got eaten by this spell last week is back with you, so close you could touch him?

Almost certainly not something Mathilde would be able to make, and probably based on a combination of the fear/uncertainty of the unknown and maybe the danger of navigation at sea through fog, of the many vessels that sailed off and vanished forever.
My thought is more along the lines of exploiting the malleability of Ulgu as demonstrated with Smoke and Mirrors. When a teleport can be woven into any spell of sufficient complexity no matter the theme with five different spots to make it work depending on the spell in question without raising its difficulty, there's some wacky ability to fold, spindle, and mutilate reality even by the standards of people who routinely do so.


And I can think of like at least five different existing Ulgu things to junction with a mist to achieve some flavor of the desired result.
 
I mean, the Winds in general are pretty flexible. Penumbral Pendulum is a swinging guillotine that is infinitely sharp and huge in size, slicing a swathe through a large target or a formation of infantry (or cavalry). A mid-level spell has the user create a horse made out of shadows that travels at the speed of dawn and dusk. And that's Ulgu.

Ghyran has a spell where the caster generates a mobile throne. Hysh has a spell that entraps people in a giant net of light.

So an Ulgu spell that transforms the target into mist doesn't seem so implausible when it can already transform people into shadows. The tricky bit is making the transformation lethal. It could be something along the lines of "transform the target into mist, wait for the mist to scatter from wind, then undo the transformation, and bam the target is dead", making it a worse and possibly conditional version of Final Transmutation, but I imagine that much could be done (even if it isn't terribly practical).
To be fair, we know there's at least a theoretical grounding for turning yourself into mist and the only reason people haven't tried it is because they don't want to stress test the way to turn back.

The transformation into mist becomes a lot simpler if you accept that whatever you turn into mist isn't turning back. Still extraordinarily complicated, but you don't need to add a mechanism to ensure the transformation back is lethal when you could just not transmute them back from mist.
 
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