Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
IIRC one legit way to look at the crown would be to spend our Kragg-obtained boon, since it can serve as a KaK boon.

I don't think we should, because we could equally use that boon on getting a library arrangement with the Runesmiths (for their non-Rune books), or for other esoteric uses (e.g. asking for information on how runing ithilmar works?), but if we really wanted to, we could.
 
Valmond said:
Not a good reason.
Everyone (that matters) knows dawi work is better, no need to go digging old relics and opening old wounds.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yea, but those who could write about it before had no ability to directly see and inspect the enchantments. We have the ability to collect new and interesting information about dwarven superiority. What king would say no?

On a more serious note, something along the lines of "I wish to study elven artifacts to more properly counter them" might let us though.
 
RandomTechPriest said:
Yea, but those who could write about it before had no ability to directly see and inspect the enchantments. We have the ability to collect new and interesting information about dwarven superiority. What king would say no?

On a more serious note, something along the lines of "I wish to study elven artifacts to more properly counter them" might let us though.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
*checks notes*
Thorgrim, Thorgrim would say no.
Dawi do not enchant items (no, runes do not count), it does not matter how fancy, or crude, the enchantments in the hat are, us examining them and writing a paper does nothing for KAraz Ankor, except remind everyone about the War of the Beard.
Which is not helpful, we want the dawi to look into the future, not worry about the past (even more than they do).
 
You know in terms of battle magic and mist.

A fog bank that confuses people as to where they are supposed to be going, what direction, and how fast. I.e. a spell to break formations, ranging from getting the them to turn around, switch from a line to a skirmish, or separate them so badly that they can't be called a formation.


Imagine a unit of knights charging some prepared infantry. The infantry get hit by the spell, some of them turn around, others walk away from the formation, some actually advance forward more than they were supposed, now they are no longer prepared for a charge and the formation gets cut to pieces.

On the tabletop I imagine it as the enemy formation counts as being flank or even rear charged that turn. Probably something like have to pass a leadership test. Or force a unit to turn around (allowing for an allied unit to rear charge, or simply make it harder for the enemy to charge you as they have to reform).
 
Valmond said:
*checks notes*
Thorgrim, Thorgrim would say no.
Dawi do not enchant items (no, runes do not count), it does not matter how fancy, or crude, the enchantments in the hat are, us examining them and writing a paper does nothing for KAraz Ankor, except remind everyone about the War of the Beard.
Which is not helpful, we want the dawi to look into the future, not worry about the past (even more than they do).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Thorgrim would if he has any sense would ask Kragg, who would either say let her cook, or demand to see it himself with the shiny spectacles she made him so he can properly work out how to mess up Elgi bullshit.
 
consequences said:
Thorgrim would if he has any sense would ask Kragg, who would either say let her cook, or demand to see it himself with the shiny spectacles she made him so he can properly work out how to mess up Elgi bullshit.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If Kragg wanted to see the hat, he would already have seen the hat, and as much as Kragg likes us, he is not going to get into High Kings business over what he has in his holds vault without a very good reason, and so far we have no good, or even mediocre, reason to see the hat.
 
Cursed Thought: Imagine Mathilde making Handmaiden-summoning Ulgu spell, that makes Apparition to appear as "Dawi Engineer wearing special harness, which allows him to use fully-working mechancal wings on his back"
 
Last edited:
Are there apparitions large enough we can shape into a blimp. I need to know more about apparitions and if there is a point at which they are too big to be apparitions and simple become demons
 
Bear Templar said:
You know in terms of battle magic and mist.

A fog bank that confuses people as to where they are supposed to be going, what direction, and how fast. I.e. a spell to break formations, ranging from getting the them to turn around, switch from a line to a skirmish, or separate them so badly that they can't be called a formation.


Imagine a unit of knights charging some prepared infantry. The infantry get hit by the spell, some of them turn around, others walk away from the formation, some actually advance forward more than they were supposed, now they are no longer prepared for a charge and the formation gets cut to pieces.

On the tabletop I imagine it as the enemy formation counts as being flank or even rear charged that turn. Probably something like have to pass a leadership test. Or force a unit to turn around (allowing for an allied unit to rear charge, or simply make it harder for the enemy to charge you as they have to reform).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's basically the same idea I've been proposing (and someone else has probably proposed before, in all likelihood). The Fog of War made literal in terms of nature and effect, on a Battle Magic scale.

Definitely should make it difficult for enemies inside the fog bank to tell if anyone else inside of it is friend or foe, on top of completely depriving them of sense of direction and general orientation, so they might start hacking at each other and forget where they are/where they're supposed to be going.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
That's basically the same idea I've been proposing (and someone else has probably proposed before, in all likelihood). The Fog of War made literal in terms of nature and effect, on a Battle Magic scale.

Definitely should make it difficult for enemies inside the fog bank to tell if anyone else inside of it is friend or foe, on top of completely depriving them of sense of direction and general orientation, so they might start hacking at each other and forget where they are/where they're supposed to be going.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That approach would probably be good for afflicting a few units/a section of the line, but probably not an entire battlefield. It'd be about the same scale of effect as Melkoth's.

If you're wanting full-battlefield scale Fog of War, then you'd want to localize the effect of it to the ability of the enemy to communicate from unit to unit. It'd affect signaling implements and messengers and scopes, and maybe might be able to mess with the WAAAGH! field.
 
Godwinson said:
That approach would probably be good for afflicting a few units/a section of the line, but probably not an entire battlefield. It'd be about the same scale of effect as Melkoth's.

If you're wanting full-battlefield scale Fog of War, then you'd want to localize the effect of it to the ability of the enemy to communicate from unit to unit. It'd affect signaling implements and messengers and scopes, and maybe might be able to mess with the WAAAGH! field.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's actually exactly the scale I had in mind: a specific formation of troops, not an entire army. Correctly applied, it could throw an entire army's formation and tactics into disarray by creating a disorganized, uncontrollable portion of it into a self-slaying melee.

It wouldn't get the death toll of Pit of Shades or Firestorm, but it would majorly disrupt the enemy's battle line and create openings (or mitigate enemy tactics).
 
We have up on a lot of ways to enrich ourselves in terms of loot. Almost always sacrificed for magical items and books,

Maybe going a couple thousand crowns in debt might make us appreciate the most universal of currencies more.
 
Valmond said:
If Kragg wanted to see the hat, he would already have seen the hat, and as much as Kragg likes us, he is not going to get into High Kings business over what he has in his holds vault without a very good reason, and so far we have no good, or even mediocre, reason to see the hat.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No but we have a very good minor favor from Karagg which we can redeem for a look at the crown for study. I just want to see if it has any good inchantments on it that we can copy or atleast learn from.

Also we can have a replica made and send it to Aldorf museum. I imagine Altdorfers would love a new piece in their Museums even if it is just a replica.
 
Wasting favour from Kragg to see a crown that will most likely be enchanted with Qhaysh to look for enchanting tips seems to me like the worlds biggest waste. We have no shortage of knicknacks to study. Borrowing the one we most likely won't be able to untangle is weird.
 
Tasoli said:
No but we have a very good minor favor from Karagg which we can redeem for a look at the crown for study. I just want to see if it has any good inchantments on it that we can copy or atleast learn from.

Also we can have a replica made and send it to Aldorf museum. I imagine Altdorfers would love a new piece in their Museums even if it is just a replica.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The favour is not a "do anything" ticket.
Also, it is a favour from Kragg, Kragg does not get to say who walks into Thorgrims vaults.
 
Valmond said:
The favour is not a "do anything" ticket.
Also, it is a favour from Kragg, Kragg does not get to say who walks into Thorgrims vaults.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Karaz-a-Karak (Minor) / Runesmiths Guild (Moderate): You gave Kragg the Grim an opportunity to begin reverse-engineering several ancient Runes.

It is a boon. Minor boon from KaK is enough to get a look at the crown. We know this. I want to say Boney confirmed it but can't find the post but I am sure of it is enough.
 
Tasoli said:
It is a boon. Minor boon from KaK is enough to get a look at the crown. We know this. I want to say Boney confirmed it but can't find the post but I am sure of it is enough.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The only word from Boney on availability of Crown looking is when we still traded favour and that it has since become impossible.

Word on if boon could accomplish it was not, to my knowledge, given. So no, we do not know this.
 
Tasoli said:
Karaz-a-Karak (Minor) / Runesmiths Guild (Moderate): You gave Kragg the Grim an opportunity to begin reverse-engineering several ancient Runes.

It is a boon. Minor boon from KaK is enough to get a look at the crown. We know this. I want to say Boney confirmed it but can't find the post but I am sure of it is enough.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I just searched boon crown in posts by Boney and found it straightaway.
Parabola said:
@Boney is either version of this new Boon big enough to let Mathilde & WEB-MAT study the Phoenix Crown and/or other War of the Ancients artefacts, with the same previous caveats of them not leaving the vault they're in?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Boney said:
Mathilde yes, employees no.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's ambiguous whether the Runesmiths version or the KaK version is what is being invoked here but it also doesn't matter.

(Tangentially, I really like the mechanical design of Boons that are stronger in their specialized mode but still available one tier down. It both gives the playerbase flexibility and captures the flavor of dwarfs passing around debts of honor in a way reminiscent of Dwarf Favour without just being the same system. I'm not sure I've ever complimented it from a design perspective, but if so it was a long time ago.)
 
Tasoli said:
Karaz-a-Karak (Minor) / Runesmiths Guild (Moderate): You gave Kragg the Grim an opportunity to begin reverse-engineering several ancient Runes.

It is a boon. Minor boon from KaK is enough to get a look at the crown. We know this. I want to say Boney confirmed it but can't find the post but I am sure of it is enough.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Sure, but the crown is almost certainly enchanted with Qhyash, which means our examination of it would be useless. Much better to save that boon for something like linking the Colleges' and Runesmiths' favor networks, opening up lots of potential. We've seen firsthand how much good wizards can do for dwarves and how much good runesmiths can do for the Colleges/Wizards; it would be lucrative to open up that opportunity to a much broader scale.

Imagine the Colleges employing Gold Wizards to dowse for ore veins beyond what dwarves could do--perhaps even for gromril veins in Karak Varn expeditions. Or Grey Wizards scouting one of those watchtowers the dwarves are reclaiming on the Silver Road, where even the best Rangers can't tread (because they can't phase through walls or go invisible). Likewise, imagine more wizards equipped with runic equipment that can reflect enemy spellcaster attacks or protect against dhar--or more Rooms of Calamity for the Colleges to benefit more wizards learning new spells in general (or having magically neutral rooms of the highest quality for research).

That's worthy of a boon.
 
Huh, so we do know. Fair enough i guess.

EDIT:
SaltyWaffles said:
Sure, but the crown is almost certainly enchanted with Qhyash, which means our examination of it would be useless. Much better to save that boon for something like linking the Colleges' and Runesmiths' favor networks, opening up lots of potential. We've seen firsthand how much good wizards can do for dwarves and how much good runesmiths can do for the Colleges/Wizards; it would be lucrative to open up that opportunity to a much broader scale.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It would be really funny if it was not enchanted at all. Even Dragon Crown of Karaz a Karak was just battlefield rated piece of jewelry before Gotrek Starbreaker commissioned it be runed with Master Rune of Kingship.
 
Last edited:
I just checked it's wiki entry, and all it says is "It was forged not from a single piece of metal, but was crafted from ingots of gold and gemstones brought from the ten kingdoms.".

The replacement crown that I assume Finubar wears was made by the priest smiths of Vaul, but the original is only mentioned to have been "forged in the time of Anerion". Unless the wiki is missing information, the Phoenix Crown might be more symbolic than mystical.
 
Huh, so we could go see that hat the.
Cool, i was wrong, not the first time.

Still not voting for it, i have no reason to see the hat, i'm sure we can use he boon for something more useful.
 
The Phoenix Crown might be enchanted with Qhyash, it might have a divine blessing from Asuryan, it might have been the subject of a ritual, it could even have been made by the Old Ones. Or it might be entirely mundane and symbolic. We could potentially learn so many things from studying it, or perhaps nothing much at all. It's a very intriguing mystery, and perhaps it's the crown's unknown nature that attracts Mathilde's interest most of all.

We should put the Crown in a crystal ball and ponder it.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I just checked it's wiki entry, and all it says is "It was forged not from a single piece of metal, but was crafted from ingots of gold and gemstones brought from the ten kingdoms.".

The replacement crown that I assume Finubar wears was made by the priest smiths of Vaul, but the original is only mentioned to have been "forged in the time of Anerion". Unless the wiki is missing information, the Phoenix Crown might be more symbolic than mystical.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There's a White Dwarf article saying it does stuff to increase morale (that's how I'd fluff it anyway, TT wise it makes a unit Unbreakable and allies around for 6" Stubborn) although I personally think that can be ascribed to symbolic significance rather than actual magic. Grudgelore says the Dwarfs claim it's of Dwarf make (which could just be a salve on pride) which is an amusing though.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top