Wolf with little flight goggles, manning the Anti-Bat guns as the Gyrocopter fighters deploy.
Vote for The Wanderer, and the flight school memes will rotate back around to being *about flying combat*
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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Vote for The Wanderer, and the flight school memes will rotate back around to being *about flying combat*
That's a good point. I think there's a similar dynamic in how the Shade Clans are described. They're looked down upon by the Druchii. It seems to be implied that they're even seen as cruel by the Druchii. I'm not sure how to read their background information. It's mentioned that they were formed by the rulers of Clar Karond being exiled because they spent too much time exploring and neglected their power base. It doesn't seem likely that a single noble family could be prolific enough to be an entire unit by themselves. The army book could have focused mainly on the elite and neglected to account for the commoners. You've theorized about that before.
That being said, this is Games Workshop, Uniforms and Heraldry describes Nagarythians as having a handful of permanent settlements on the inland borders.
Most other depictions agree that it doesn't have permanent settlements. 6e has an interesting blurb, with the speaker saying they're crueler than most Asur, but that it's because of a tragic past.Now that you pointed that out, I can't help but notice that it also mentioned that the population of Nagarythe fled under Malekith. That's ascribing a lot of agency to people living in cities that Malekith literally stole the land out from under. Seems like it says a lot about how Ulthuan views the Druchii.
consequences
Not A Nice Person At All
- Location
- Jerkville
Eeeeh. The tendency of nomad groups to roll in and take over or replace the settled areas they can get at because the sorts of lands that can only support nomads tend to kind of sort of really suck probably has more to do with it than the supposed virtues and benefits of nomad culture that would generally only be cherry picked by settled historians to push their own agendas. Along with some revisionism, no one wants to admit that their glorious divine granted rule of these lands is actually because their great grandfather Stabface Strongjaw killed the last descendants of Grog Mightthews to take over. Have to pull that ladder up after you after all.
There may be some 'what do you mean those assholes don't have a plague season or have to deal with tithes and taxes' due to the simple martial virtues of <tribe that definitely doesn't subscribe to thing that latest philospher hates> being absorbed into the popular consciousness, but I can't see it being much more than a sauce on the meat of the issue.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
This may be true with more nomadic people like Mongols, but probably not much to do with people like travellers. Different sort of hate.
Nomadic peoples do often maintain permanent or semi-permanent sites as economic, diplomatic and cultural centres (or, depending on how you delineate those who live in said sites on a more permanent basis, maintain close ties with sedentary sites that depend on the nomadic peoples economically). The most famous IRL example I can think of is Mecca.That being said, this is Games Workshop, Uniforms and Heraldry describes Nagarythians as having a handful of permanent settlements on the inland borders.
From another angle, one could propose that the land-holding noble culture of the rest of Ulthuan embodied in the Phoenix Court has put pressure on the more nomadic kingdoms for their own elites to practise a limited form of estate-based land-holding as cultural cachet. Happened to look into Ellyrion a little while ago and from what I could tell this seems to have happened there but I'd want to find and read the novels that I know cover that kingdom before trying to marshal evidence for it!
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I've been constantly rotating between combinations of the three possible options and okay yeah this is the one that finally did it and cemented my vote for this for good I think. Only took four months to get there
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Please do not put the dog on the war vessel, he doesn't deserve to be shot at or subjected to aerial boarding actions.
- Location
- somewhere over there.
- Pronouns
- They/It
Which, as someone who would like to do that sort of thing, is all the more reason to want the boat.
As to the actual votes for swamp town, you're completely correct and I was misremembering. Should have gone back to check. I think there's an even better example of the thread wanting occasional "intermission" adventures though, and that's the book mining raid we went on, when we found Vlad's bedroom.
I think a ship is ideal to encourage variety of setting and allow us to go poke all kinds of odd things in mini adventures like that.
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
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- He/Him
So, a few things here:
1) By taking the Armor of Von Tarnus here, we would have the ability to lend it out or just give it to any other wizard as we pleased. That means we'd be fully able to give the armor to Mandred if he reached a point where he was both a melee expert and a powerful wizard such that his AA would stack incredibly well with the Armor.
2) Mandred wearing the Armor makes sense only if he intends on getting into the thick of fighting personally. That's fine if he's an expert warrior backed up by a unit of Greatswords and a retinue of wizards. But Mandred has no guarantee that he will turn out that way. He could instead opt for being an inspirational and charismatic leader that attends battles but doesn't wade into melee combat with the intent of slaughtering all comers.
3) Mathilde having a suit of runed ithilmar armor isn't going to happen. Boney has clarified multiple times about the extreme difficulty of getting runed ithilmar anything, and that doesn't even take into account the amount of time it would take to reverse-engineer the runes (if it takes ten years, that's a huge problem in itself, and that's assuming it's even possible to begin with). Enchanted ithilmar is a possibility, but that means that we would not be using AA on top of it, making the net gain questionable. Mathilde's AA mastery is quite valuable and stacks extremely well with a suit of armor that provides incredible protection, which is exclusive to the Armor of Von Tarnus.
4) Even if Mandred were well-suited to being a melee powerhouse, he himself could easily commission a suit of ithilmar armor enchanted as best as the archmages of Laurelorn could provide and it would be well within his budget (easily). Meanwhile, Mathilde is sitting there with an AA mastery (tirelessness) that synergizes extremely well with the extreme protection of the Armor of Von Tarnus and her incredible offensive assets (Branulhune, Mantle of Terror/living shadow, Belt of the Unshackled Mountain) and other survivability assets (Seed of Regrowth, Cleansing Candle, Belt of the Unshackled Mountain, Knightbringer)...and all while being a person who can afford to wade into extreme danger because her death wouldn't decapitate an army (and she has the ability to teleport away if need be).
5) Mandred would be the leader of an army. That means something. If he's wading into a messy melee, he is in no position to be leading/commanding his army. And while he could delegate command to a general and focus on going into melee himself, that's just one possible direction for him to go in and not a guarantee of how he'd grow up.
This is not true in multiple ways. Firstly, the ship only offers more adventure in limited circumstances--we already have an enchantable gyrocarriage that can take us almost anywhere, and faster than a flying ship could. The flying ship would make it easier to go to Lustria and Cathay, and that's about it, but we'd still be able to go to both places readily even without the ship.
Secondly, the armor gives us the protection to weather adventures much more safely than we otherwise would. Consequently, we could be bolder and chase more adventures than we could without the armor. Just like how we got a lot bolder about looting and scouting and assassinating skaven territory once we got invisibility and teleportation than we were beforehand, particularly with how many close brushes with death we had when we made assassinations before we got those abilities. And even those adventures were possible because we had the Seed of Regrowth, which we did not have pre-graduation.
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- Location
- California, USA
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- He/Him
I believe Boney recently stated that going on an adventure with Thorek to rediscover lost Ilthimar runes from the Dwarf/Elf friendship era was a possibility. It's still not something I think is likely to have the outcome people are hyping up, and it's absolutely not something I'm interested in, but that's what Prime was referring to.
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SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
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- He/Him
I mean, even if it does happen, I imagine it would take years for Thorek to reverse-engineer the runes even after he finds them, and combined with the time it would take to acquire the chance to examine the runes, it'd be years of waiting. Moreover, the ones who would have runed ithilmar would almost certainly be Ulthuan, which means journeying across the sea to try getting a long look at ancient, priceless relics from some of the richest and most elite elves of Ulthuan. And just getting permission to go there would be a challenge because you normally need a token from a representative of the relevant kingdoms to allow for very temporary visits to said kingdoms. And then there's the challenge of the people we'd need to get the cooperation of wanting favors of their own.
All of that, and Thorek would need to be willing to spend a lot of his valuable time on the project, all for something that would benefit the dwarves very little if at all (the demand for runed ithilmar would be very limited, as Laurelorn has a very limited supply of it and no way of acquiring more except to buy it from Ulthuan, and the very few nobles in the Empire willing to pay the fortune for a suit of runed ithilmar armor would probably be more inclined to buy a suit of runed gromril armor instead, save for a wizard who'd need the light weight of ithilmar). Obviously, Ulthuan would pay a fortune for more runed ithilmar items, but would Thorek be inclined to make them for Ulthuan in the first place? I suppose for a big enough fortune perhaps, but there are limits to what money can buy when you're rich in much already but desperately poor in population (and your people already make the best stuff).
- Location
- Finland
1) While technicly accurate, for this to have any practical change of happening would require us to spend lot of time following Mandred to determine when he needs the armor, which we are almost certainly not going to do, and to decide to make ourselves significantly more vulnerable, which is also very unlikely to happen.
2) The Bright wizard fighty prince of Reikland with Karl Franz stats staying back and not fighting in the melee? Not happening. Ok, maybe it would happen, but i seriously doubt it, this is a kid who wants to be a knight, has spent years studying for it, and has been sent to the wizard college that is all about all things military, he is not staying back.
3) Sure, probably not in the cards, but i would rate the odds higher than the previous 2 points.
4) If Mathilde can't get suit of Ithilmar armor after all she has done, Mandred is not going to get one either.
5) Again, point 2, Mandred is not going to be staying back, there are generals and strategists for a reason. Also, even if he did, it just means he is the prime target for assassinations, always.
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- Location
- California, USA
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- He/Him
We're talking about something that could only happen nearly fourty turns from now. It will take ten years just to reach Journeymen, much less any magical skill worth the Armor. Nearly the entire length of the quest, and you think that far in the future we'd have to spend an AP stalking him to tell if he'd need it? And even if we take that at face value, you're worried about one single AP such an astronomical time from now?
The Martial stat governs strategy and tactics as well as fighting. And considering our price for the Brights was teaching Mandred with a focus on leadership spells over fight spells, I think you're doing him a disservice by reducing him to a brute.
Mandred will be the Elector Count of Reikland, among the most powerful provinces in the Empire. For us it would be an insane ask necessitating the use of a high flying adventure or a megaboon from the Dwarves, for him it would be just another line on the balance sheet.
Personally I don't see why we need runed ilthimar or nothing. As I understand the armor of von tarnus is just that, normal armor that one can cast in as it has been made very permeable for all the winds, that is the extend of its enchantment to my understanding. Normal ilthimar will do the same job, just through different methods.
So I'd be absolutely happy to just get a suit of ilthimar from somewhere instead of waiting for some theoretical runed version.
So I'd be absolutely happy to just get a suit of ilthimar from somewhere instead of waiting for some theoretical runed version.
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- California, USA
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- He/Him
The Armor of Von Tarnus stacks with Aethyric Armor, creating absurd defense- wading into a horde of orcs without worrying absurd- while still allowing you to cast. Ilthimar is armor you can cast in. It doesn't stack with Aethyric Armor. Our Aethyric Armor is already as good as plate armor, so non-runed Ilthimar would be a nothing upgrade. I suppose if we couldn't cast magic for some reason it might be useful?
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Do we have word on boney for that, I assume I missed it then.
I don't think it is a matter of discovering runes, but the method of how to work runes into ithilmar. That should be simpler. It is a matter of investigating the groups that would have had an opportunity to do it: primarily the Hill Dwarves. I'd say that there is a decent amount of runed ithilmar in the Old World. The elves with the most opportunity to get runed ithilmar would have lived alongside dwarves. Laurelorn probably has a handful of equipment and armors.
Boney has stated it is possible, and if it was something that we couldn't see the fruit of, I don't think it would be an option. That said, Boney did say unpredictability was a key part of adventures.
I doubt that. Mathilde can get access to the armor because she literally saved a Karak from the realm of chaos. Boney has said that loads of money might be enough to get impoverished clans to sell their ithilmar trophies. But that does not mean that Mandred can get a suit of armor. The dwarves don't want to sell. It's their relics. Their ancestors won them in a feat of arms in a war that shattered two golden ages. That's something to be proud of.
The armor of Von Tarnus is so exceptional because it's a really good set of armor that can stack with our aetheric armor, giving us such exceptional defence that we could march into a mob of orks unharmed
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Voting which I will be doing, as promised. Ship or no ship. 😤
Somewhere along the line Mathilde became one of those powerful people you don't want to oppose because she knows way the fuck too many other powerful people who might get pissed off on her behalf.
Despite weilding that power deliberately on the hill dwarves, I'm uncertain if Mathilde has internalized this herself yet, lol.
I just remembered that aerial combat is often calld dogfighting, god dammit-
Yeah, but that hellwar is defined by Boney not wanting to write it, so it's effectively off of our list anyways.
Okay, then why haven't they? The empire can just do that, right?
Money and generic political power are not actually enough to get this done. You need the very specific connections that Mathilde herself has for it to be remotely plausible, what with the war of the beard and all.
She's the Dwarf whisperer to these people. If she doesn't make it happen, it's not happening.
Also, AA is not the only enchantment you can put on armor. Our enchanted robes just rolled like shit.
We do.
Your information appears to be out of date. Runes for ithilmar armor are entirely achievable given Mathilde's agenda, connections, and boons.
Nagarythe may also have some runed ithilmar items kicking around we could cash favor in for, for what that's worth, but after Boney's clarification on the Eonir I'm not holding out for it.
Armies are led from the front in Warhammer. The Collegiate Aqshy paradigm is about blowing shit up which generally involves direct combat with people, and the Indic paradigm we crowbarred into his education is about inspiring the people you lead and that generally involves leading from the front.
It would be best that Mandred not die in the process.
Skipping ahead - and others have responded to your other points - but we're about to go on the elfcation, the undisputed king of "but we're not ready!"
We don't actually need the armor to stop being scared of the cool adventures we could be going on, and I can't remember the last non-elfcation adventure we actually shied away from for "not being ready", so while I'll have to take your word for it that we got bolder about...
Wait, hold up, you're citing invisibility and teleportation? We had a literal character sheet malus from Mathilde's ork raid gone wrong at the time, of course we weren't gung ho about raiding skaven. That's just proper build order!
Yeah, no, I just... don't think "We're not safe enough" is a reason we're going to turn down adventures, especially not "we're not safe enough specifically in the way that armor helps with but fire support doesn't". As the war list I mentioned earlier in this post demonstrates, that is a very small list.
Certainly smaller than the list of adventures we can go on specifically because we had the ship, like retaking the ranaldian holy site by using it as a mobile base/beachhead.
The beauty of it is that we don't have to wait - we can get the armor, then rune or enchant it based on what opportunities fall out.
We have an avengers team of top magical talent right there we could butter up for some top shelf stuff too, if we don't just outright say to brettonia "I, mathilde weber, separate from the others and their prices, name my personal price for admission to the waystone project as having the fey enchantress personally bling out my ithilmar armor to the gills".
Adrian XXIV
Average User, from Poland
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Btw, what is "max rank" of Colleges, that Mandred would be able to get?
No, it's main attraction is that you can cast in it at all. Because the only other armors that lets you do so is chaos armor and it's accompanied buffs or ilthimar.
But I do agree that the buff of von tarnus armor via aetheric armor is something I did not know... I still don't believe that makes it much better then enchanted ilthimar which would let us use something else to enchant it with and still have plate, and also couldn't be touched by anti magic effects because it's not actually magical.