Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Presumably there's nothing legally stopping him from becoming Supreme Patriarch.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Hypothetically he could make it to magister patriarch. He is a child. He's barely got any training, we don't know how good he will be at magic yet. He's almost certainly making it to magister, but any further is unknown
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
That and Chaos Dwarf Blackshard Armor, though it's pretty close to Chaos Armor already.
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- He/Him
Supreme patriarch, I guess?
Probably for the best that he not, so he can focus more on leading the empire.
To be perfectly fair, I'm pretty sure everything would have to go right for us to get a result that's actually as good as the armor of von tarnus. "Stops everything but a greatcannon to the face" is kind of insane.
List 'em. I count:
- 3 AP from the protector elfcation we were going to go on anyways (gets us political capital for access to the anvil of vaul (or else an existing suit of armor to refit))
- 1(?) AP for Thorek's adventure that we were going to go on anyways
- 1 AP optionally on learning to use armor good that we'd have to spend if we got the armor of Von Tarnus anyways
- 1-2 AP on other stuff relevant to coordination and putting it all together
- 0 AP to get the ithilmar, commission the armor, and have the KaK runesmith guild scour KA for relevant lore, boons are part of the purchase vote and do not take AP.
Certainly would take less AP than it would to get an airship by some other means.
So, it doesn't seem like a problem to me. Everybody can win!
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Ithilmar, even enchanted or runed Ithilmar, will not give us enough defence to literally walk into a horde of orks and literally ignore their attempts to harm us. The armor of Von Tarnus will. If it was just armor we could cast in the armor would be worthless, since we can just use our Aetheric armor, which we are incentivized to do thanks to our very good mastery of it, and get the same level of protection.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Well, leading Reikland.
His age alone makes it pretty unlikely he'll become Emperor, assuming Luitpold passes any time like his canon counterpart did.
I do get that... But I seriously hope we don't put mathy in the middle of an artillery barrage, and if we manage to avoid it ilthimar is good enough.
(Personally I don't need ilthimar armor for mathy, spider silk shenanigans are cool enough, I just like the symmetry of having a sword of the dwarfs, armor from the elfs and being a human wizard. Just feels neat.)
- Location
- California, USA
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Because why would they? The Empire has armor. Ilthimar is only special to Wizards who want to fight in melee and Aethyric Armor isn't enough for them. And Elves for the cultural value.
Ulthuan trades. Marienburg is all about trade. The Elves have good reason to want to get in the Wizard Prince of Reikland's good books. Mathilde bought a huge amount of Ilthimar with just her lowly merchant connections. Do you think Laurelorn might be willing to trade one suit for twenty times itself in Ilthimar scrap? Someone mentioned in the sourcebooks Ilthimar Armor is something you can just buy. Hideously expensive, but you can buy it.
The resources and abilities of a state, especially a state as powerful as Reikland, are so many orders of magnitude higher than Mathilde's it's not even funny.
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Greater daemon of khorne should roughly have as much firepower. A greatcannon is the most common source of enough firepower, but it's nowhere near the only.
- Location
- Earth
I'd say its main attraction for Mathilde is the stacking, as we can already cast in plate-level protection. The AA stacking is very significant:
Cool, I'd rather have a long range barrage via an airship then some more armor when a greater daemon of khorne turns off our magical artifacts again.
Simple: no Elector Count at this point in time has had a reason to. They weren't spellcasters. Rather than try to shell out exorbitant amounts of money to nab Ithilmar to enchant they'd rather try to shell out exorbitant amounts of money for Runed Steel/Gromril.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
They could use a greatship, but even ignoring the fact the technology isn't any different (it's larger and replaces the oars with a gun deck), those are supposed to be quite rare. They' the Imperial Navy's most powerful (and thus most expensive) ships.Again with the assumptions, Who says they are not going to use Greatship instead of Wolfship?
Or better yet this beauty below* is always awaible, Now I know WHF fans don't like to be reminded of this ship considering it implasuable but that is just proof that Empire naval tech is better than most peoples imagination can accept;
Edit:
There was a reason I was joking about spine mounted Yamato Canon y'know.
Thinking about it what would Oars would do in the air in the first place? I mean sails can be enchanted to propel but oars?
Let's be honest, the Hell-Hammer isn't actually technologically any better than any of the rest of the ships. Because it's explicitly just a very slightly modified Wargalley, which the Empire fields a large number of already.
Ulthuan doesn't sell ithilmar.
That makes the implication that runed ithilmar is so far superior than enchanted ithilmar that people living in Ulthuan are willing to pay the great expense of having runed over the undoubtedly much smaller expense of having it enchanted by an archmage.
On the tabletop the Armour of von Tarnus comes with a built in ward save. I don't know if or how Boney is going to represent that, but it isn't just armour one can cast spells in.
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I need you to understand that asking for elgi-helping runes for elgi-armor is not something you can do with any amount of resources nor ability if those resources do not include deep knowledge and personal connections to the culture and key figures of the Karaz Ankor and sons of Thungi.
On their own, the empire did not even know about the divide between the old and new holds, much less what is needed to not get spit on in the face for trying.
And even then this would still be impossible for Mathilde if she did not have the protector and an In for using it to get political capital in Ulthuan that could be used to get something forged. What, exactly, would the empire offer the rich and prestigous and snooty to the gills Ulthuan to do the same thing?
I don't think the empire is going to formally recognize Marienburg's independence so that Mandred can have some plate, and by the time Mathilde decides "maybe I should give the armor of von tarnus to him" we'll have already used up the political capital she will get from the protector on something else!
And if we're going to make super ithilmar armor in advance anyways in anticipation of having to pass on the armor of Von Tarnus, we may as well just skip the middleman and make the armor for ourselves instead and take the awesome wizard airship.
Tobtorp was mistaken about AA, but he's right on the money about heavy duty fire support being more valuable to us in most fights than armor that is somewhat better than what we have the opportunity to make ourselves.
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I don't see the runed ithilmar armor being a votewinner. In quest we have mostly acquired complex gears through ordering them, not researching and making them through a huge project. Our robes and staff may be some of the most complex gears that we researched and played a role in forging, and the efforts involved are an order of magnitude less than what acquiring runic ithilmar may entail (a project fraught with great uncertainty).
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1-2 AP is less than what we spent on our sword style which also was beholden to rolls, and we have a bunch of von tarnus voters saying they'd support going for the ithilmar armor, so I'm not sure this logic holds.
People voting for the ship are overhwelmingly doing it for the ship's sake anyways, the ithilmar armor bit is mainly just pointing out that it's not Van Tarnus or Nothing. People have been interested in getting runed ithilmar for years, I trust that that interest will continue to exist if we pick The Prismatic Wanderer.
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- Location
- California, USA
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- He/Him
If you had read my post, or the one I responded to, at no point did I claim Mandred would be able to put runes on Ilthimar. I was responding to someone who said Mandred wouldn't be able to get normal Ilthimar and then enchant it. Nor did I say that the Empire would ever formally recognize Marienburgs independence- how would an Elector Count even swing that? I referred to Marienburg because it's a trading capital of the Old World who built its independence on selling elf stuff for money! Nor did I ever claim we should make the armor for ourselves to give the Von Tarnus armor to Mandred!! I said if we never gave him anything Mandred would still be able to go into battle in full plate if he wanted to, because Elector Counts are built different from quest protagonists!
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You are crossing streams. I am pointing out how ridiculous a concession the empire would have to make to even attempt to get a suit of ithilmar plate, not saying you claimed that they would. The rhetoric rather depended on the presumption that you would find them doing so unacceptable, in fact.
Likewise, "make the armor ourselves so we can give von tarnus armor to mandred later" was also meant to be ridiculous, I literally only brought it up because that's what we'd have to do in order for Mandred and mathilde to both have full plate at all if we take the armor of von tarnus now.
The empire cannot get ithilmar armor for Mandred on its own, runed or otherwise.
And Mathilde can't do it, on her own nor on the Empire's orders, without the unique opportunity of the Protector Elfcation providing exceptional political capital that she puts to the task.
And if we're going to spend the political capital that way anyways so that mandred can have some plate armor, we may as well just make it for ourselves and get an airship for our trouble.
Me trying and failing to come up with a plausible way for the empire to do what you said they can do is not me putting words in your mouth. It is me entertaining your argument seriously, then disagreeing with it.
Chill.
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We are back.
- Location
- Oklahoma
I think that if Mandred wants the Armor of Von Tarnus in forty turns he can earn it, rather than it just being assumed to belong to him by dint of his station.
I also think that even talking about what may or may not happen forty turns from now is pointless.
Most likely, the next Everchosen War will be over by the time he's actually ready for the front lines.
I also think that even talking about what may or may not happen forty turns from now is pointless.
Most likely, the next Everchosen War will be over by the time he's actually ready for the front lines.
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Interesting take, but "we're on the backfoot in the war against chaos because the emperor died, shame he didn't earn the armor that could have stopped him from dying" doesn't sound like something the colleges would like to have to argue to the elector counts and the cult of Sigmar.
They're quite aware that Mandred's fortunes are closely tied to their own, for better or worse, and while they can say who gets the armor, they cannot tell chaos when or when not to start their everchosen war.
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- Location
- Somewhere between the stars
I feel like arguing that we can't take the armour, because someone might need them in 40 turns, is a bit silly. If the Ship would only be ready in 40 turns, we'd be a bit like "Well, why would we want that, that's so far away", cause like, 40 turns is a lot! That's like basically double the entire quest.
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I mean, they sure aren't yet.
- Location
- Oklahoma
What possible sequence of events would result in Mandred being the Emperor and dying in a War that's likely going to happen within the next couple of decades?
Mandred becoming Emperor at all is an extreme long shot that even Heidi already gave up on.