Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
That's an entirely fair point of view. I just responded because I kinda misunderstood your misgivings (and because it's always good to clarify things from your/my viewpoint.)
Yeah, I got that. I ended up rewriting the message like six times because I didn't want to appear to appear hostile. I've just been around for a while and I've seen arguments like the one you used quite often and they never sway me.

Yes, well, people voting for the boat think it will also lead to more wild adventures and cool fights - being a mode of transport and all that. The armor just makes us better at the fights and adventures we could already go to. This may mean we choose to go to more of them, and it may even mean the way we fight changes to be more of the type you prefer, but it doesn't really have an advantage in... well, quantity of adventures and fights.

But it is 2:11 am and man I do not want to rehash "There are adventures we can only go on with the flying boat" from scratch again, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
I've probably skimmed the arguments about the adventures in flying boats, but that doesn't really sway me. It's almost 3am and I should get to bed, but the main thing is that I don't think the boat does enough to enable much more than what we already do. I understand there are things it helps with, but there are also things we don't need the boat for that we can still do and it's not a meaningful thing in my eyes.

Vote the boat because you like the boat and be honest about liking the boat. I'm voting the armor because getting cool armor means we have a cool set of armor for the next cool fight.
 
One thing to consider is that if we're getting something wolfship sized for a flying ship, it's not going to be very much of an artillery platform.

Ships that size might have a small number of light guns, but you're not going to have great cannons on them.

'Shore' bombardment isn't something that fifteenth/sixteenth century naval technology was as very good at.
 
'Shore' bombardment isn't something that fifteenth/sixteenth century naval technology was as very good at.
That assumes it is 15-16th century naval technology. Considering how all over the place Empire tech is that is not a given.

Arguably Empire is more advanced than IRL today in robotics for example, considering clockwork horses are a thing. I blame magic mostly.

But assuming stuff like this would just lead you to misreading entire setting. lets not.
 
I'm not too worried about the ship's offensive power. More than any amount of cannon, this project would be all eight colleges bringing their A game. You could say fitting insane amounts of destructive power in small packages is something of a specialty of theirs, and a wolfship is a hell of a lot bigger than a battle altar.
 
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I'm not too worried about the ship's offensive power. More than any amount of cannon, this project would be all eight colleges bringing their A game. You could say fitting insane amounts of destructive power in small packages is something of a specialty of theirs, and a wolfship is a hell of a lot bigger than a battle altar.
Like we have handed Skyre Lightning Canons to collages, Azyr versions showing up on the ship would make perfect sense to me. I imagine every collage would have some sick stuff if asked.

Like I don't expect Yamato Canon spinal mount from Bright Collage on the ship but I don't don't expect it either if you get my meaning.
 
If abominations like the Empire's Hellhammer or the Grand Theogonist's Heldenhammer can exist with nary a mote of magic in sight, then I'm sure eight colleges of magic working together can fit enough firepower into a wolfship to qualify as a respectable artillery platform at least.
 
That assumes it is 15-16th century naval technology. Considering how all over the place Empire tech is that is not a given.

Arguably Empire is more advanced than IRL today in robotics for example, considering clockwork horses are a thing. I blame magic mostly.

But assuming stuff like this would just lead you to misreading entire setting. lets not.
I mean, we know what ships the Empire fields though. Their mainstays are Wolfships, shallow-drafted, and driven either by sail or by oar (depending on the wind) they mount a battery of cannon in the forecastle and a ram for offense.

Now there might well be some deviations from that for something the Colleges build, but I don't see why they wouldn't use a known quantitiy as the base.
 
I mean, we know what ships the Empire fields though. Their mainstays are Wolfships, shallow-drafted, and driven either by sail or by oar (depending on the wind) they mount a battery of cannon in the forecastle and a ram for offense.

Now there might well be some deviations from that for something the Colleges build, but I don't see why they wouldn't use a known quantitiy as the base.
Again with the assumptions, Who says they are not going to use Greatship instead of Wolfship?

Or better yet this beauty below* is always awaible, Now I know WHF fans don't like to be reminded of this ship considering it implasuable but that is just proof that Empire naval tech is better than most peoples imagination can accept;



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There was a reason I was joking about spine mounted Yamato Canon y'know.

Now there might well be some deviations from that for something the Colleges build, but I don't see why they wouldn't use a known quantitiy as the base.
Thinking about it what would Oars would do in the air in the first place? I mean sails can be enchanted to propel but oars?
 
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Again with the assumptions, Who says they are not going to use Greatship instead of Wolfship?

Or better yet this beauty below* is always awaible, Now I know WHF fans don't like to be reminded of this ship considering it implasuable but that is just proof that Empire naval tech is better than most peoples imagination can accept;
I was going to mention that the Navy might not like getting their ships given away to some Wizards for some strange project, until I realized that between the completed canal at the Black Water and the one being planned in Kislev the Admiralty might actually have a multitude of reasons to like Mathilde enough to give her a ship for the colleges to play around with.
 
The canon expedition to Dum took place on an airship—a dwarven blimp, not an enchanted warship—and I've often thought that now that there's no need to go to Dum, would Malakai Makaisson still make his legendary ship.

And the answer to that is "yes, Malakai is a madman and he doesn't need an excuse to build airships". But I've always wondered where he will take it—and it seemed to me that there would be a nice symmetry if, instead of going the northern most dwarfhold, it went to the southernmost—the lost hold of Karak Zorn, located high upon a plateau in the Southlands.

I've always kind of hoped that such an adventure might be made available to us, but I've just realised that with the Prismatic Wanderer, we don't actually have to wait for Malakai at all—we can just sort of go ourselves.

Kit out a proper expedition, bring along Thorek and Borek, and we could sail clear over Nehekara and into the Southlands to find the first city of the dwarves—and possible any Old One lore that remains.

I'm not saying such an adventure must happen if the Wanderer wins, but it would be nice to have the option, so I think I've convinced myself to support it.

[X] Plan: The Prismatic Wanderer

And because approval votes come free with your Xbox:

[X] Plan: Eight Boons
-[X] Ambers: The secret behind Flock of Doom
-[X] Lights: KAU partnership with the Light Order's Ancient Library
-[X] Golds: EIC partnership for selling/buying alchemical ingredients and products
-[X] Jades: techniques for drawing magic out of waystones
-[X] Celestials: Books on prophecy
-[X] Greys: Operatives to expand the reach of the EIC intel network
-[X] Amethysts: establish a branch college in Wurtbad with a focus on hunting undead (open to wizards of all eight winds)
-[X] Brights: Gyrocarriage enchanted with Inextinguishable Flame

[x] Plan Tower of Doom! and Research!
[x] Elector-Countess
 
Damn it I fell for the mind worm. Well thank you for the reminder.
Ehhh. The funny thing there is that I hadn't been quoting Boney as proof of Nagarythe being like that. That was me quoting Boney because I thought that line was funny and it summed up my views on said kingdom. My views on Nagarythe's political position was based on quotes like the one below from the army books. Do you see that Nagarythe's section name isn't even Nagarythe? It even directly says that what little remains of Nagarythe is treated with fear and disgust.

I still hold to that statement actually. I am very skeptical of how much political influence Nagarythe holds and how much Mathilde will benefit from using the Protector there. I'm open to the idea that it would help with learning from the Shadow Warriors. But Ulthuan as a whole? That seems very unlikely.

High Elves 8e Army Book said:
THE SHADOWLANDS
The Shadowlands are a dark and desolate region, but were once part of a mighty Elven kingdom called Nagarythe.... Nagarythe was destroyed and many of its people fled with their evil master to the cold lands of the New World. They became the Dark Elves - evil kin to the High Elves of Ulthuan. Today, what little remains of the once-proud Kingdom of Nagarythe is treated with fear and disgust. It is uninhabited but for wanderers and beasts.
 
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Not to discourage you from voting for my preferred option but I would advise to not bet on the ship going on the elfcation. If the ship wins that will probably take a few turns to actually get build and most plans (as unreliable as they are) have the elfcation happen next turn or at most the turn after.
And yet somehow Armor just gets handwaved as 'surely there will definitely be an AP pried lose to expedite integrating it' with zero pushback from the people who want to make it to Burning Elf this year.
I think the relative slowness of the ship would logically be counteracted by the increased storage size- one trip with everything versus multiple- but I don't know how relevant any of that is. To my mind "vote for your reward" is a quest mechanic and Boney's not gonna give us half a dozen rewards for one adventure no matter what.
The ship also presumably has multiple pilots and doesn't need to stop to refuel every X hundred miles and to allow the crew and passenger bones to stop rattling.


Boney certainly won't give adventures, it is up to us to leap and catch our face on the hooks. We would have to start investigating Nurgle cults for the Candle to reliably matter, we would probably have to learn battle magic for the Grounding Rod to earn its ticker tape parade. If the ship would provide literally any quality of life improvement or mechanical benefit or even just purple prose to going around and looking at things with a posse of varying size, it would be giving infinitely more return than the armor would over the last five years. The thread consensus isn't going to suddenly turn into Alucard or Guts because we have super armor, because if I can think of tarpitting Mathilde and ganking her with a Pit of Shades or whatever, so can the #17 Everchosen seed.
 
And yet somehow Armor just gets handwaved as 'surely there will definitely be an AP pried lose to expedite integrating it' with zero pushback from the people who want to make it to Burning Elf this year.

Technically, Mathilde doesn't need to spend training AP on the armour, as an AP spent where she uses it will count towards practicing with it.

It does mean we won't get the full benefit of it on the first (or possibly second) adventure we go on, but we will gain it passively over time. The only reason to spend the AP on training is if we do want that full benefit immediately.
 
And yet somehow Armor just gets handwaved as 'surely there will definitely be an AP pried lose to expedite integrating it' with zero pushback from the people who want to make it to Burning Elf this year.

The ship also presumably has multiple pilots and doesn't need to stop to refuel every X hundred miles and to allow the crew and passenger bones to stop rattling.


Boney certainly won't give adventures, it is up to us to leap and catch our face on the hooks. We would have to start investigating Nurgle cults for the Candle to reliably matter, we would probably have to learn battle magic for the Grounding Rod to earn its ticker tape parade. If the ship would provide literally any quality of life improvement or mechanical benefit or even just purple prose to going around and looking at things with a posse of varying size, it would be giving infinitely more return than the armor would over the last five years. The thread consensus isn't going to suddenly turn into Alucard or Guts because we have super armor, because if I can think of tarpitting Mathilde and ganking her with a Pit of Shades or whatever, so can the #17 Everchosen seed.

That is assuming that we aren't going to transition t Nexus Reclamation now that Mathilde and the Empire know IC that there are massive fonts of magical power currently in the grasp of various enemies. We have so much warring to do in the near future.
 
I don't see exactly how what you're saying has anything to do with what you're quoting? Tobtorp was talking about the ship probably not being ready in time for Elfcation, not whether we can fit in AP to work on it while it's being created. And I was responding to a conversation about whether having the ship in the black college would have allowed us to acquire all the loot, not whether the Ship would give more return than the Armor.

I don't agree with some of what you said, but it feels kind of weird to be quoted out of nowhere just for you to make an unrelated point.
 
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High Elves 8e Army Book said:
THE SHADOWLANDS
The Shadowlands are a dark and desolate region, but were once part of a mighty Elven kingdom called Nagarythe.... Nagarythe was destroyed and many of its people fled with their evil master to the cold lands of the New World. They became the Dark Elves - evil kin to the High Elves of Ulthuan. Today, what little remains of the once-proud Kingdom of Nagarythe is treated with fear and disgust. It is uninhabited but for wanderers and beasts.

'Uninhabited (except for the nomadic population that has been there for thousands of years)' is the sort of statement that's really easy to skim over, but really deserves a more critical look.

There was a tooltip in some long-ago Paradox game (EU2 or 3, if I had to guess) that said 'there can be no peace between nomad and settler!', and that always runs through my head when the topic comes up. There is an ancient tension between those two modes of living, older than history, and surprisingly often it rears out of the ancient mire of prejudice that predates judicium. Racism against Native Americans, gripes about migrant workers, prejudice against all kinds of 'travelers', from Romani to the 'van life' subculture, even anti-Ukrainian sentiment, it crops up over and over and in all sorts of places. One big historical motivator for it, I personally believe, is simple: the quality of life of the average nomad was higher than that of the average settled person until some point in the 1900s. Sour grapes.

Would Elves be immune to this prejudice? To that I say lol, and furthermore, lmao. Ellyrion and the Ellyrians are described as 'wild', despite being a very clearly meticulously engineered magical landscape designed to make navigation impossible to outsiders. Chrace gets a similar treatment, with the incredibly skilled scouts they produce being overlooked as a signature unit in favour of the White Lions, which play more to the 'warrior peoples' trope that allows the Chracian way of life to be put in a neat little box. The Avelornians are treated weirdly, described as somehow too energetic and too complacent at the same time, as if they're trying to dance around criticizing the homeland of the Everqueen by throwing out a bunch of conflicting positives that allow them to write them all off as on Elf Drugs. There is that same tension between the settled agricultural population and the nomadic hunter-gatherer or pastoralist populations, a dismissal of anyone not living in a city or on a farm.

We know very little about what Nagarythe was like before the Sundering, but from the maps, the east was mostly hills and the west mostly forests. I think that when the cities were ripped out of the mainland and left for Naggaroth, the remaining people were ones that did not require much adaptation to begin living as nomads. I suspect that they'd live the way they do even if they didn't have the specter of Malekith looming overhead, and I think that's as much a part of the reason as why it's referred to as bleakly as it is as the actual effects of the Sundering. Oh, those people. They're not like us, are they? And besides, the part of Nagarythe's history where it had cities lasted for less than two millennia, while the part of it where they've lived as nomads is at over five. Reflexively looking down at Nagarythe's nomadic present for differing from the settled past is a very deep-rooted instinct, but one that should not go unquestioned.
 
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I count at least 5:
Forest of Shadows
Forest of Gloom
Silver Road
Vaults Hellwar
Elfcation

... Why do we have so many wars in our backlog?
In fairness to the other plans, the Wanderer wouldn't be much help for the Vaults Hellwar given how most likely the Skaven would be attacking from below.

Uninhabited (except for the nomadic population that has been there for thousands of years)' is the sort of statement that's really easy to skim over, but really deserves a more critical look.
Something something greenskins, something something the Badlands and Dark Lands, something something.
 
...
And besides, the part of Nagarythe's history where it had cities lasted for less than two millennia, while the part of it where they've lived as nomads is at over five. Reflexively looking down at Nagarythe's nomadic present for differing from the settled past is a very deep-rooted instinct, but one that should not go unquestioned.

Westernmost Kingdom of Ulthuan, and thus most exposed to sunsets, the oncoming of dusk, and the transition from day into night.

Nomadic population with little-to-no mention of horsemanship.

Literally known as The Shadowlands.

Was Shadowsteed invented in Nagarythe?
 
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