Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
-
- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
So, I see the vote tally, the pickle requests honestly seem like things we might be able to wring with College Favor to a lesser degree while the airship on the other hand would never be done otherwise, so what's the tl;dr (because its 200 pages) of the arguments for each of them?
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
There's people (including me) who specifically don't want the air ship for a variety of reasons (though my understanding is that said reasons are kind of related). So they prefer a list of goodies that we may or may not get around to getting in other, slower, ways over something they specifically do not want.
My biggest gripe with the list of smaller goodies is that about 3 of them we could probably get with barely any expenditure of effort or are absolutely irrelevant to us.
Bright: getting the gyro carriage enchanted with everlasting flame would (iirc) cost a buying action... Which are free
Amber: the probable answer to "what is flock of doom" is apparations and if it isn't it's not use to us and if it is it's still no use because using someone else's base for spells doesn't work.
Light:... Have ever just asked them if they want to do a agreement with the only library currently allowing the copying of most of a elven library that has claims to be older then the white tower?
It just feels so wasteful... At that point I'd take the armor of this
Bright: getting the gyro carriage enchanted with everlasting flame would (iirc) cost a buying action... Which are free
Amber: the probable answer to "what is flock of doom" is apparations and if it isn't it's not use to us and if it is it's still no use because using someone else's base for spells doesn't work.
Light:... Have ever just asked them if they want to do a agreement with the only library currently allowing the copying of most of a elven library that has claims to be older then the white tower?
It just feels so wasteful... At that point I'd take the armor of this
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Here ya go:
I can't find a neatly-summarized argument for the Armor anywhere, but the short version is that it is to our armor slot what Branulhune is to our weapon slot: the ultimate upgrade in sheer defensive power that we are not reasonably going to be able to do better than. Yeah, there are other things in the setting that are technically better, like there are for our sword, but realistically we're not improving on "Greatsword armor that you can cast in and which stacks with Aethyric Armour." Also, thematically, it's pretty dope for Mathilde hold a piece of the College's treasured regalia of their greatest-ever enchanter (the Staff this guy made is so good that "who is in charge of the Colleges" and "who holds the Staff" are the same person), plus von Tarnus was a Greatsword before he was a wizard and we learned how to fight from Greatswording, so there's a link of legacy there.
There you have it, arguments for all three of the frontrunners.
Last edited:
[X] Plan: The Prismatic Wanderer
Alright, I'm mostly in favor of this.
My main reasoning for liking it is "Hey, look at what you guys did when working together wink wink nudge nudge you dumbasses ahem."
We get a cool airship to drive around wherever we want, the Colleges get the Emperor sitting on them to make more cool shit, win win.
Alright, I'm mostly in favor of this.
My main reasoning for liking it is "Hey, look at what you guys did when working together wink wink nudge nudge you dumbasses ahem."
We get a cool airship to drive around wherever we want, the Colleges get the Emperor sitting on them to make more cool shit, win win.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
From the most recent site update, emphasis mine. Turns out that the dice roller was pseudo-random this entire time.
I'm sorry, Ranald fans. Looks like the game was rigged from the start.
I'm not personally voting for it, but in defense of the goodie scheme, I think the Light Order option is more about a one sided exchange, thereby actually making it a favor vs the sort of mutual exchange we could normally pursue, which does have prestige advantages in the long run if that's something the library crew is concerned about. I could be wrong about that in which case yeah it's pretty underwhelming
I'd agree if it just said "copying agreement" but it's called a "partnership" which (to me) implies both sides getting something out of it. And for prestige? We already landed several large fishes to hang for prestige, the before mentioned elven library, the entirety of nulns libraries, the the fire spire books (for the mages out there). How many more great things do we need?
The argument is that all of those unique library things like the Library of Mornings or the Fire Spire or what have you are inherently worth less if there's this Light Order library that also has access to them, which they could depending on the exact specifications of some exchange. Why venture all the way to the end of the world at Eight Peaks if whatever weird thing you're looking at can just be found in Altdorf after all? Again though, I'm part of the illiteracy agenda just playing devils advocate I suppose
It used Mersenne Twister as the PRNG which is OK. The original versions from back in 2015 or so used php's
rand() function which at the time was terrible.It's better than the boat is the main reason, I would really like to save it for when we chose our next main chapter, so we can use it for best effect and if we don't want to use it for that then we can have time to get better requests. i think the armor is the best option because it seems less wasteful of potential.
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Just switch the armor vote to the Armor of Von Tarnus. We can then decide to not have possession of it all the time if we want to. As it is, you're just diluting your vote like that, unless Boney goes out of his way to lump your vote in with the other armor vote.
As for bankrolling our possible shopping spree for magical curios at Lothern: we could probably take out a loan from the EIC, from Belegar (he'd probably give us an interest-free loan, too), or exchange CF for cash in a pinch. We rarely spend significant amounts of money outside of shopping for magical curios, so the probably-interest-free loan we can take from Belegar would be easy to deal with. And we may end up getting some nice money loot from hunting Druchii in Nagarythe afterwards anyway.
Last edited:
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Pseudorandom is exactly what it would be if Ranald influenced it. And either way, it's not controlled by any mortal. It doesn't matter where exactly Ranald puts his thumb on the scale. Be it on the physics of true randomness, on the creation of the particular algorithm, or on the exact moment and ping delay of rolling requests.
Last edited:
Ulthar being disowned is hardly applicable to what I have been saying. But honestly, assuming that Ulthar is even remembered, sure. He wouldn't be in the common cultural knowledge, but assuming that Karak Norn even still around, it'd be known among the time period's historians.
But think about it for a second. Who does it benefit to eliminate all records of the KAWN? How do the dawi benefit from being unable to respond to threats to it? All of the holds came to this conclusion? Why did this paranoia not happen in Dum, Azul, and Varr? And let's be honest, it's just a bad idea in the first place. Because runesmiths possess all the ability to rediscover it from first principals. There is no such ability to destroy evidence, because the Karak-Waystones, Mountain-Runes, and wards of Valaya are all the proof runesmiths need to figure it out. And four thousand years is plenty of time for it to be rediscovered independently several times over. It's not even a lot of effort to figure that out, when you have knowledge of how runesmithing works.
But you're overplaying the power of the High King. For all intents and purposes the Karaz Ankor died when the Underway shattered. For all intents and purposes there was no High King to silent investigation into the network. And this is assuming that the knowledge of where the magic goes and the vague idea that it benefits the Karaz Ankor was even forgotten in the first place! That is something you have no provided any proof for. Thorgrim not telling a messenger the information to tell Belegar is not proof that the Kings and the Runesmiths are not vaguely aware of what is going on.
You still aren't addressing the fact that the most paranoid Karak, Karag Dum, didn't destroy the information. They even seem to have spread knowledge of it among their own ranks more than the other Karaks.
Credulity? In the sense of believing something too easily, without evidence supporting the position? In the sense that it applies to your arguments? Are you sure that is the word you intended?
At the end of the day it doesn't matter if we do not maximize visitors to the library. Belegar pays for it regardless and it can serve as a repository of lore either way. Sure if this was a more traditional library that actually had to justify its existence in some way beyond 'Transcendent Boon goes Brrr' we might have to worry about other libraries stealing our traffic of scholars, but then again if we worried about that kind of thing we would not have made a colony of giant spiders librarian.
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Considering the goal of KAU is not to be the best library in the world, but to be a library that will serve as a reliable backup for all the other libraries in the Old World, with a hefty budget, excellent staff, as much space as it needs, bookshelves that are themselves designed for preservation and organization, and a priority for making its works easy enough to find even well into the future.
Mathilde took a look at all the tragedies befalling libraries throughout the Old World, bemoaned all of the lost literature and knowledge and history, and decided that a well-funded library in the middle of a karak could avoid the kinds of problems plaguing all other libraries in the Old World (except the Library of Mournings, though that one is limited by the fact that it's been strictly an elven library about elven topics).
Entering into a partnership with the Light Order's libraries makes sense and is something we shouldn't need to spend favor on; we've got a lot of high-value and rare material as well as extensive material from much of the Old World. The partnership would be natural: we want knowledge/books to not be lost to time and disasters, and so does the Light Order. The Light Order's libraries are generally hard to access, though, if you aren't a member of the Colleges of Magic. It's not a public-access library like KAU is, but that's fine because it's intended to be the best chance at preserving works the Empire has. KAU would be the redundancy that also has public access, while the Light Order's libraries can be treated more like a vault.
A one-way deal might make KAU more exclusive and unique, but the Light Order's libraries are not available to the public in the first place, IIRC. For Mathilde's goals, it would be better for the Light Order's libraries to serve as a backup for KAU in case KAU ever came under major attack from greenskins, skaven, or whatever, and if you're not a wizard KAU is easier to access.
Our librarian is a colony of sapient friendly giant spiders. It would take a brave or determined individual to be comfortable browsing KAU unless there's something there they need. The draw of KAU is that it's open to the public, well-organized in its entirety, and has a breathtaking variety and depth of works within it. The foundation of KAU is that it has the financial, military, and legal backing of the king of a karak (and his royal clan by extension) in perpetuity, with an abundance of space to boot. We aren't competitors to other libraries because our library is too far away from most people to be a competitor to the average library goer. If, one day, a library is lost in the Empire to a tragedy or disaster, but all of its works were already copied to KAU, and that lost library is rebuilt with new copies of its works made from that backup, then KAU will have served its transcendent purpose.
Last edited:
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Thoughts on the two big lines of discussion:
Dwarves have a bad habit of keeping secrets and dying without passing them on. Stuff gets forgotten. Whether specific stuff gets forgotten doesn't seem possible to work out from first principles, we'd have to ask.
Waystones on barges are alright, but strike me as very, very likely to cost way more then they are worth. Cost to make and ship and maintain vs the value of marginally less dhar in an area seems very biased towards cheap long-term installations, not expensive temporary ones.
I'd say yes. Three reasons:
It keeps us from coming into direct conflict with the empire, accidentally or otherwise.
It gives us a reason to actually be there and be engaged with.
It allows us to make credible commitments and offers that would be laughed off coming from an individual.
So yeah we could just wander over to wherever and meddle because no one has the power to stop us, but I regard that sort of things as destabilizing rather than being constructive. Plus we don't really have any motive to do it, and don't it for shits and giggles doesn't really appeal.
Dwarves have a bad habit of keeping secrets and dying without passing them on. Stuff gets forgotten. Whether specific stuff gets forgotten doesn't seem possible to work out from first principles, we'd have to ask.
Waystones on barges are alright, but strike me as very, very likely to cost way more then they are worth. Cost to make and ship and maintain vs the value of marginally less dhar in an area seems very biased towards cheap long-term installations, not expensive temporary ones.
I'd say yes. Three reasons:
It keeps us from coming into direct conflict with the empire, accidentally or otherwise.
It gives us a reason to actually be there and be engaged with.
It allows us to make credible commitments and offers that would be laughed off coming from an individual.
So yeah we could just wander over to wherever and meddle because no one has the power to stop us, but I regard that sort of things as destabilizing rather than being constructive. Plus we don't really have any motive to do it, and don't it for shits and giggles doesn't really appeal.
We have achieved this with great personal involvement before. I think it is unlikely all the colleges will collaborate well and timely without our extensive personal involvement.
Inter collegiate politicking is very fun to read about, for sure, but it is time intensive.
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
....is the tally acting up? It lists the Prismatic Wanderer as top, but the armor has a higher number despite not being on top.
You had set the tally to instant runoff instead of simple majority.
6 votes exist for the alternative format or wording for armor.
If they are not duplicate votes, that means pickle and armor tied
- Location
- Washington
Every single one of them is a duplicate vote
Approval voting the Prismatic wanderer, even though my favorite is the Armor of Von Tarnus.
Personally, both feel like endgame gear, I guess, which is pretty great.
One reason I prefer the armor of Von Tarnus is because though we can use it better than other wizards (teleporting nigh-invulnerable assassin with cannon-sword > nigh-invulnerable mobile artillery), we are not guaranteed that the Prismatic Wanderer is a better use of other wizards time than the other things they would have been doing.
[x] Plan: The Prismatic Wanderer
[x] Armor of von Tarnus
Personally, both feel like endgame gear, I guess, which is pretty great.
One reason I prefer the armor of Von Tarnus is because though we can use it better than other wizards (teleporting nigh-invulnerable assassin with cannon-sword > nigh-invulnerable mobile artillery), we are not guaranteed that the Prismatic Wanderer is a better use of other wizards time than the other things they would have been doing.
[x] Plan: The Prismatic Wanderer
[x] Armor of von Tarnus
Lone Courier 6
Devilish Fool
- Location
- United States of Quests
[X] Plan: The Prismatic Wanderer
flying ship is a no brainer come on guys
flying ship is a no brainer come on guys